427 replies to this topic

[DarkEmblem]

Fury drones actually need arming time as a buff, so you can properly micro them what to attack instead of all of them launching at a single conscript that's near them. For example, I move 5 fury drones to the enemy base, I want them to attack a building (battle lab for example) but they just attack that one sentry gun/ conscript rather than actually doing something useful.

[SPCell]

Suggestion: since Bomb Buggies/Demotracks are horrible against units and good against buildings, how about adding disguise as vehicles for them like in Generals when they choose to "attack" enemy vehicles (like spies)? Imo, that will make them much easier to get to the enemy base and therefore they will be used more often. If you still want to attack units with them, you can just deploy them.

[Speeder]

How are they horrible against units?

[SPCell]

How are they horrible against units?

They do very low damage to both infantry and vehicles. Any thoughts on giving them a disguise as vehicles?

[Speeder]

That's technically impossible.

[Damfoos]

Unless AlexB invents some new Ares magic. Though, how would this unit attack vehicles if its ability to disguise is bind to Attack action, like with Spies and other disgusting units?

Edited by Damfoos, 20 May 2017 - 02:41 PM.

[SPCell]

By deploy as I said.

Edited by SPCell, 20 May 2017 - 03:59 PM.

[TeslaCruiser]

How are they horrible against units?

They are really good against production buildings. Damage against units is quite low and to infantry is almost irrelevant. None uses demo as an anti-unit unit. Mostly because is a terrible trade

I mean if you get close to enemy whit 3 or 4 maybe, but at the same tier, enemies have high hp tanks (soviets) planes (allies) MC (epsilon) and foehn is just foehn they have buffed repair drones so they can eat damage no cost

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 20 May 2017 - 06:15 PM.

[DarkEmblem]

I actually believe grids and all the other invisible grid-like defences need arming time like the EMP mines are going to get. Getting a stungrid spawned in front of your units whilst stunning them immediately after is just obnoxious. But PERHAPS I'd change my mind after patch 3.3.2. But I don't think the auto-target fix is really going to fix the issue.

[Hmshark]

I dont know if this is fixable, but zorbfloaters cannot lift and pull tyrants into water like other tanks. This is probably a side effect of tyrants not being able to drill underwater. ( I have not tested this with drillers )

[Speeder]

But Tyrant can drill underwater..

[Hmshark]

But Tyrant can drill underwater..

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding, yes they can drill underwater to reach land but you cannot send them directly to water.

[BlackAbsence]

But Demo Trucks are good for killing units when used against unit blobs. Sure, their damage isn't "that" good, but their AoE is large: -25% health from a unit blob is, collectively, a lot of damage.

They usually never finish the job, but they weaken them up enough for the clean up crew.

[TeslaCruiser]

yeah you can reach a blob if the player is brain dead (and non-epsilon) Anyways I don't think demo needs a buff but having 'anti unit' in his description is a bit misleading

[DarkEmblem]

I believe that clairvoyants need a hp/armour nerf. Currently I find myself playing against people who just spam a lot of clairvoyants (5-15, varies on how big the map is), then place a spinblade for pretty much a guarenteed steal. Both their speed when boosted by a spinblade and their armor make them incredibly hard to kill, even when you have a lot of units. A few of them will certainly survive and pretty much steal all of your cash. Now, terror drones are great against them, but that is only because they kill them in one hit (however, you'll pretty much need as many terror drones as your opponent has clairvoyants due to the delay in attacks and both units their speeds), but pretty much every other faction has trouble killing them. Seals for example, need to actually do multiple hits for one to finally die.

 

I also believe that jackals do not need a possiblity for the passenger to survive. Jackals are hard enough to kill as it is (Once again, especially with spinblade), and it's just stupid that a foehn player still has a pretty high chance to steal your money/tech just because a jackal was quick enough to stand next to your refinery even though it died at the last second.

Right now, it's pretty much a necessity to even wall your refineries (walls + gate) when playing against a foehn player. 

 

Also, I know some people love haihead too much here. But you guys really need to think about balance instead of the love for a faction.
Megaarena does need a big nerf. Their insta-infantry aoe kill basically kills any epsilon player without a sweat while actually the armor and speed buff are enough already. THE SUPPORT POWER COSTS ONLY 1500.
Now there are multiple things to actually tweak this.

Megaarena nerfs 1:
Make it degrade hp a bit faster than an inferno tower
Decrease range by a mile.

 

OR

 

Megaarena nerfs 2:
Remove the bs insta-infantry aoe kill
slightly decrease the range

OR 

 

Megaarena nerfs 3:

Raise cost to 30000. Yes. Because it actually denies a complete unit-type and especially Scorpion Cell has NO way to deal with it.

 

OR
Make megalodons mindcontrollable. (Balance > Logic)
Remove armor buff from megaarena.

Decrease range from megaarena.

Even non-epsilon struggle against haihead way too much. I can't believe how people either still defend megalodons + megaarena or don't think this needs a change at all. It severely impacts people their attitude towards haihead/haihead players.

 

Just a recharge time nerf definitely isn't going to cut it AT ALL.
 

 

Minermites also need a nerf. Make their repair rate slower, as they can basically make their army invincible when used within an army. (They are MUCH more useful than a soviet repair drone) And I believe I actually saw someone testing them and I couldn't believe my eyes when they mined an entire orepatch quicker compared to all the other factions their miners. 

Foehn should be low on cash, limited units and have high fire power. Instead of swimming in cash, unlimited units and high firepower. 

Either remove the reprocessor it's passive. (Gain money upon kill) or actually do something about the miners.

Last thing, shrike nests should not be able to follow enemy aircraft outside of their range. Right now it's basically a guarenteed kill on slower aircraft even after the aircraift left the shrikenest its range.


Edit: BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

 

Right now especially SOVIETS struggle too much against early foehn rushes.

As everyone knows, conscripts merely tickle foehn their units early on and even sentry guns are hardly able to do anything. Just 4 lancers will be able to kill a barracks, power and a miner with ease while knightframes deal with soviets their only option, conscripts. Conscripts are limited to their buildspeed and their limited brain capacity to get a better a gun. If you don't want to nerf knightframes and lancers more, soviets will still struggle too much with foehn their early rushes. That's why, yes. I actually suggest a conscript buff. Just make them cost 80 and atleast give their peashooter an upgrade. Or even just their attack speed. Right now, they actually have to spend more than the opponent foehn to actually hold the attack, since a thing as "defender advantage" doesn't exist when playing as soviets against foehn.

Also, make the lancer do less damage against buildings. It's too insane that 4 just lancers are pretty much guarenteed to kill both a miner and first power plant/barracks during a rush or even just with a SCOUT of 4 lancers. This will also solve the problem of sentry guns being completely useless against foehn during rushes.

Edited by DarkEmblem, 23 May 2017 - 03:59 PM.

[Damfoos]

I think AT infantry in general being able to wreck ANTI-INFANTRY defences like they are nothing is already a problem. And why would I use a sentry gun for defence if a bunker is only slightly more expensive but has greater range, versality, firepower, durability and ability to fire over walls while also having the same tech requirements? Only as an emergency defence, but that's it. Look at Pillboxes: now that's a beast, and it doesn't have concurrents in Allied tech tree at its tier.

I agree about Foehn points, especially bullshit tanky dirt cheap speedy money stealing at T2. If someone thinks lack of disguise ability matters THAT much, it doesn't mean infiltration should be unstoppable. Foehn player spends 3000 for making 10 Clairvoyants and he is guaranteed to reach the target unless it is really miles away and it happens in lategame when crowd control weapons are deployed in mass. Otherwise, he gets a guaranteed infiltration for just 3k, just take care of the guards and you can devastate enemy even more. Can you do it with regular spies? You can not, if a spy is spotted he is dead, because even one emergency T1 defence is enough to kill multiple. And Foehn can bypass those just because their infiltration can't be sneaky? Give it radar invisibility, move it to T3 and change armor to light or at least medium, and we have a much more fair option.

I disagree with Shrike nerf proposal however, as following the targets is their gimmick which compensates their inability to intercept fast movers.

Oh, and it was me who tested mining income rates. Non-boosted Minermites harvest faster than all other miners, and boosted ones just vacuum the fields, so in both cases Foehn player does not starve in poverty. You can see it yourself, just get this map:

https://cdn.discorda...incomecheck.map

Edited by Damfoos, 22 May 2017 - 04:35 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

I'd also like to ask for an increase buildtime on the MADMAN. It's suppose to be a last resort kind of unit, but every Hailhead player uses the thing like a core unit, often bringing the unit out the moment they get tier 3. Added with a couple minermites (with their insane heal speed) the MADMAN is almost impossible to stop. Espically now with the inability to completely stop the one build limit units, I do believe that the MADMAN minermites push would be abused even more.

Increase the build time, force the player to take a risk when building the MADMAN.

Diverbees on the other hand never seem to get any use. A many facited unit that no one ever gives the light of day as opposed to the many MADMEN they will pump out.

Not to mention..... MADMAN + Minermites + reprocessor = $$$$$$$$$$

[DarkEmblem]

 And why would I use a sentry gun for defence if a bunker is only slightly more expensive but has greater range, vetsality, firepower and durability while also having the same tech requirements?

 

Bunkers take time to set up. First you build one, then you need to get either conscripts or flaktroopers to fill it up. Lets say you fill it up with 6 conscripts, the price would be 900 in contrary to the 400 costing sentry gun. 6 flaktroopers would make it cost 1320. 
50-50 would make it cost 1110. 

Now let's say you actually fill them up completely. Now, the enemy player will just avoid the tank bunker and attack your base somewhere else instead. Of course, you'd have just wasted money at that moment. Let's say you go and sell it. You lose 300 dollars and you're stuck with shitty units. Which is also a situation you don't want to be in.

 

Now there is ANOTHER thing that can happen. Let's say:"Okay, I don't have time to set this all up when I see the rush coming, so I will just spam them as soon as I can." At that moment, your opponent can do anything. He can still choose whether or not he's going to rush you down. He scouts battle bunkers, decides not to rush. Now you're stuck with spent money and your opponent will just out-macro you. 

That's why I prefer sentry guns. You can quickly place them and they are cheap enough not to care about the amount of money when spent/sold, while bunkers are more for going into turtle-mode. For sentry guns to be so shiet should have nothing to do with allieds not having another option in their tech tree.

If that were to be the case, a patriot missle should be worse than a flak cannon, because pacific front has the option to get a skyray cannon. 

But like my suggestion said, make lancers do less damage against buildings. This would mostly solve the problem with the sentry gun. (Even though I also suggest to lower the sentry gun cost to 350)

 

EDIT:

 

I agree with NorthFireZ, especially when talking about the diverbee.
In my opinion, the diverbee should get a severe price cost reduction as buff. Right now it costs a lot, can only be useful against vehicles really and there is no way to make them survive after landing a single attack. You actually need to micro them very well, attack-move isn't going to work because they'll gladly attack infantry instead which basically wastes your money.

 

Even a price of 800-900 would be fine to me.

Edited by DarkEmblem, 22 May 2017 - 05:29 PM.

[CLAlstar]

 

 And why would I use a sentry gun for defence if a bunker is only slightly more expensive but has greater range, vetsality, firepower and durability while also having the same tech requirements?

 

Bunkers take time to set up. First you build one, then you need to get either conscripts or flaktroopers to fill it up. Lets say you fill it up with 6 conscripts, the price would be 900 in contrary to the 400 costing sentry gun. 6 flaktroopers would make it cost 1320. 
50-50 would make it cost 1110.

 

 

True. Cost is higher and so is defensive ability. I personaly consider both Bunkers and Sentries important for Soviet early game defense, Why?

 

Bunkers.

 

 

Now let's say you actually fill them up completely. Now, the enemy player will just avoid the tank bunker and attack your base somewhere else instead. Of course, you'd have just wasted money at that moment. Let's say you go and sell it. You lose 300 dollars and you're stuck with shitty units. Which is also a situation you don't want to be in.

 

At first, Bunkers are used to secure sides/locations where you DONT want enemy to appear. Placing 3/3 Bunker next to refinery/factory can force enemy to reposition into different place to attack or stop him from going in.

 

 

Now there is ANOTHER thing that can happen. Let's say:"Okay, I don't have time to set this all up when I see the rush coming, so I will just spam them as soon as I can." At that moment, your opponent can do anything. He can still choose whether or not he's going to rush you down. He scouts battle bunkers, decides not to rush. Now you're stuck with spent money and your opponent will just out-macro you.

 

Thats why you never do that. 2 bunkers to secure most important area in early game are max you should put on field. It also depends on scout play - there is always scenario where you manage to intercept all dogs or he will see only one bunker and will still decide to attack.

 

Sentries.

 

 

That's why I prefer sentry guns. You can quickly place them and they are cheap enough not to care about the amount of money when spent/sold, while bunkers are more for going into turtle-mode. For sentry guns to be so shiet should have nothing to do with allieds not having another option in their tech tree. If that were to be the case, a patriot missle should be worse than a flak cannon, because pacific front has the option to get a skyray cannon.

 

Ding. Thats the proper usage. Supporting actual defense in the moment when enemy is at your doorstep. Cheap, builds quick, decent support firepower.

 

Also, you are probably missing that things right here.

That +4 to damage considering burst = 2. For me sounds fine.

[DarkEmblem]

I didn't notice that. lol.

Then again, I still don't believe lancers should decimate every building as quickly as they do now.

 

"I disagree with Shrike nerf proposal however, as following the targets is their gimmick which compensates their inability to intercept fast movers"

Patriot missles have a chance of missing their rockets when a unit is too fast aswell. A problem is that a shrike nest can actually get a kill outside of its range. Also, it's more of a bugfix than a nerf. Because shrikes actually start camping an opponents airfield after he wasn't able to shoot all his ammo yet, thus spinning around all the time while for example some stormchilds are just chilling on their airfield. And the fun part is, when you shoot it down.. AFTER IT RESPAWNS IT JUST RETURNS TO THE STORMCHILDS CHILLING ON THE AIRFIELD.

 

I actually have it recorded, I'll see if I decide to upload it later.

Edited by DarkEmblem, 22 May 2017 - 06:10 PM.