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#1 tho12

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:27 PM

Hello all. I've been playing this wonderful mod for few months now, so I tought I'd chip in with some comments.

First, the campaign. Finished most of the missions w/o much trouble - the ones that forced the most restarts were those where you need to keep a certain character like Tanya or Morales alive. Last allied mission forced a good deal of restarts as well. From there, I kind of got the overall "feel" of the mod and didn't find missions to be too hard (cca 3-4 restarts each).

Overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit (especially Russia campaign), and am looking forward to the next release.

Next, I tried skirmish games, I didn't find those enjoyable - they're too easy imo. Once you survive the first few attack waves and get economy/tech upgrades, it's quite easy to beat the AI.

After that, challenges. First I tried the one with super-apocalypse tank spawns (on easy). Had an Hard AI (Coronia) ally. I was awed by how powerful AI was in that game. My base got wasted, I was also playing as Foehn and didn't really understand them, but the AI pulled it off despite my bad gameplay.

Also did  the one with constant mind-control spam (green map). Kind of challenging since the moment you create something that doesn't fly it's toast. I found this mission far easier w/o an ally. It was still a chore, since attacking the bases with air only forces is.....tedious work in this map.

Rest of the challenges I've yet to finish.

Nowdays, I only play one challenge - Heavyobject (w/o Superweapons).  First time I finished it with LB, since Foehn seem to be quite easy to play with. Next I tried Allies (all factions), failed miserably with all but America - it was still a long game but chopper spam worked. Today I finished this on Hard difficulty with Russia, which seems to be (imo, at least) the best choice with Wolfhounds/Scuds/Kirovs. Additionaly, I've managed to take Foehn tech so I had Dragons as well, which helped a lot. Had WoC as an ally, but he didn't do much.

While I find this challenge to be spot-on in terms of difficulty and fun; there are some things I didn't like.

1) building repairs. This is a chore to do constantly. Since you're bombarded all time with various bombs, rockets etc. your buildings constantly take damage. Might not be enough to kill them, but they will blow up after a few hits. Clicking "repair" button several thousand times isn't fun. Is it possible to make an option so that bulidings auto-repair?

2) Some units seem to be super-useful regardlles of the map, enemy or anything else. By this I mean those which can attack both air and ground and can fly  - Rocketeers, Thors, flying saucers and Wolfhounds. While other choppers can do similar stuff, Wolfhound pretty much tops everything as being the sole most useful unit in the game. American chopper is good as well, but it lacks the AA capabilities so it needs to be covered with other units, while Wolf preforms perfectly fine on it's own. Thor I don't find nearly as good, altough I feel it's mandatory for this challenge. Epsilons kinda get the s**t end of the stick, since the infantry-slaying flyer they get is very bad vs armor, whereas a pack of 10-15 Wolfhounds seem to be enough to hold the defence line.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, there is T1 infantry units, which dies in masses to a single superweapon, poisons, random explosions, friendly fire etc. This also applies to tanks (I'm talking Heavyobject here); however the situation isn't so dire with them - still I find them to be pretty obsolete unless it's Iron Dragon. I've learned that the best ways to keep your army alive is either playing Foehn or going full airborne.

I'd suggest making all infantry being able to survive a hit from such super-weapon (they'd survive the hit with bare minimum), just so that they may be built w/o serving as instakill material. Nukes, storms etc. I'm fine with killing them instantly, but a random blitz and similar instant kill is too harsh.

Foehn don't suffer from these issues, but they seem to have very little weakness anyhow so I stopped playing them alltogether.

3) Euro alliance seems to be "defensive support". Cool on paper, in effect they've got ultimate anti-infantry units (Thors, Snipers, Prism, Cadre is also good en masse) but vs armor there's just the clumsy Chrono and infantry divisions (see point above). I'd tone down the anti-infantry power of Prism tanks a bit and buff their power vs armored units. Not too much, but having 20 Prisms firing at a tank doing virtually no damage is very off-putting. This would also make snipers a bit more viable.

4) Epsilon subfactions I find to be rather weak and too micro intensive; or I just suck with them, so I haven't played them much. Campaign wise they felt nice, altough I much prefer the missions where you build a base, units etc. over those where you lead a handful of units into the unknown - these bring bad memories from the original c&c. :) 

 

Anyhow, great job on the mod, kudos to devs, hope to see more missions soon.

 



#2 Handepsilon

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 06:22 PM

1) building repairs. This is a chore to do constantly. Since you're bombarded all time with various bombs, rockets etc. your buildings constantly take damage. Might not be enough to kill them, but they will blow up after a few hits. Clicking "repair" button several thousand times isn't fun. Is it possible to make an option so that bulidings auto-repair?


It's probably possible, but considering it's much more practical than having a unit doing the repairs like in so many other RTS, I don't think it's necessary to make it even easier than point and click. Besides, I believe it might incite people to shout 'HERESY!'.
 

2) Some units seem to be super-useful regardlles of the map, enemy or anything else. By this I mean those which can attack both air and ground and can fly - Rocketeers, Thors, flying saucers and Wolfhounds. While other choppers can do similar stuff, Wolfhound pretty much tops everything as being the sole most useful unit in the game. American chopper is good as well, but it lacks the AA capabilities so it needs to be covered with other units, while Wolf preforms perfectly fine on it's own. Thor I don't find nearly as good, altough I feel it's mandatory for this challenge. Epsilons kinda get the s**t end of the stick, since the infantry-slaying flyer they get is very bad vs armor, whereas a pack of 10-15 Wolfhounds seem to be enough to hold the defence line.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, there is T1 infantry units, which dies in masses to a single superweapon, poisons, random explosions, friendly fire etc. This also applies to tanks (I'm talking Heavyobject here); however the situation isn't so dire with them - still I find them to be pretty obsolete unless it's Iron Dragon. I've learned that the best ways to keep your army alive is either playing Foehn or going full airborne.
I'd suggest making all infantry being able to survive a hit from such super-weapon (they'd survive the hit with bare minimum), just so that they may be built w/o serving as instakill material. Nukes, storms etc. I'm fine with killing them instantly, but a random blitz and similar instant kill is too harsh.
Foehn don't suffer from these issues, but they seem to have very little weakness anyhow so I stopped playing them alltogether.


Rocketeers are considered shit. Wolfhound though, yeah. They're very versatile, at least until you have to fight a defense structure, which renders them impractical without huge numbers.

T1 is always considered the weakest and easiest to kill, this is not Warcraft 3 where the first option is almost as tanky as the last one. You will barely survive if you only spam Tier 1 unless you're Foehn, or Epsilon probably. Their infantries are top notch. Allied will have to start using medics and Seals, and you're insane if you think Soviet's conscript is of any value other than being garrisoned inside bunkers.
 

3) Euro alliance seems to be "defensive support". Cool on paper, in effect they've got ultimate anti-infantry units (Thors, Snipers, Prism, Cadre is also good en masse) but vs armor there's just the clumsy Chrono and infantry divisions (see point above). I'd tone down the anti-infantry power of Prism tanks a bit and buff their power vs armored units. Not too much, but having 20 Prisms firing at a tank doing virtually no damage is very off-putting. This would also make snipers a bit more viable.


Uh.... Mirage tank? GGI? Charons are also powerful if micro'ed properly.
 

4) Epsilon subfactions I find to be rather weak and too micro intensive; or I just suck with them, so I haven't played them much. Campaign wise they felt nice, altough I much prefer the missions where you build a base, units etc. over those where you lead a handful of units into the unknown - these bring bad memories from the original c&c. :)


Epsilon is weak on armors, but they're probably the one with the most fearsome infantries and can even duke out against the thicker and more expensive Foehn infantries. Their tanks are probably the most mobile. They're not easy to learn yes, but if used properly they can be fun faction. My personal favorite is HQ, due to Irkalla, Shadow Tanks, Rahn, and Colossus. (I like Stalker artilleries too though)


Edited by Handepsilon, 30 August 2017 - 06:22 PM.

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#3 tho12

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 07:39 PM

Re repairs:

I'd simply put this as an additional option (I'm pretty sure one mod for CnC stuff has this), hell, disable it for multiplayer if it would disbalance the game somewhat. Personally, I play this game for the combat, not searching for smoking buildings. I wouldn't even mind a worker, as long as he's automated somewhat.

 

Re infantry:

Rocketeers may be considered shit, but they're exellent for defense; at least vs AI.  I'm not saying "T1 infantry should be late-game viable for the conscripts' price range". But at least a "bad option, but still an option" material.

 

Re Euro:

I know how powerful Charons are, it's just that micro is too much when faced with obscene number of enemies. I believe for Euro to really shine you need to combine a multitude of units, which gets rather clumsy - in between the corridors your army moves through, enemies, pathing, lag due to hundreds of units etc. it's just a chore to deal with.

 

Epsilon:

I do believe they're probably the most fun faction to play (I think stolen-tech wise, they do get the best units - Salamander is Wolfhound on steroids, Wormqueen is insane while Scavanger is a very decent front-line unit). What pushes me away from them is that they are extremely vulnerable vs air attacks early on. In Heavyobject, my general strategy is to create a big wall in front of my base (turrets, bunkers), fill the blank space with infantry (they'll die quickly but you need to build them) and rush up to some kind of flying units so I can protect the Tech Machine shop on the top left part of the area. It will be attacked by numerous enemies, and afaik the best way to protect it is by using some kind of aerial units - occasionaly three Iron Dragons spawn which kill most ground units instantly. Wolfhound is perfect for this job - quick so he can maneuver around (if you get too far north there are Quickshifters there), does big damage to tanks and air units, and is overall a total beast of a unit. Thus, I place about 5-10 of them there, and the rest I make hold the front line. From there, I slowly push to the right, inch by inch,  take down cliff defences, use SCUDs or Kirovs to take down big guns, and slowly grind my way to victory. Sometimes, I get lucky and my AI ally does something useful. Usually, what happens is that they can't get past certain choke-points so I clean up those with Kirovs/Wolfs/scuds. I get stolen tech from Foehn base and take 4 derricks in the lake there, it's kind of gg. With America, things were similar, I just needed to add more units to the mix (Aeroblazes).

Playing this challenge with any Epsilon subfaction, it's very hard to protect the base from aerial assaults. Regardless of how many gatling tanks/turrets I make, their range is poor, their damage vs big aircrafts is pathetic, and higher-tier aa units simply come a bit too slow. Usually the first time that flying hero that shoots big orbs comes he levels down all of my base defences, I have no means of taking him down. He outranges everything. When he breaks the defence line, tanks pour in and demolish me in seconds.



#4 Handepsilon

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 06:01 AM

If you're playing Epsilon, you have lots of Tier 3 AA option.

 

PsiCorps : Gehenna - They're powerful and their Dybbuk-Is can arguably reach infinite range, but the platform likes to follow up with the Interceptor, which makes constant vigilance a requirement

 

Scorpion Cell : Oxidizer - I don't use these often, but they're bunkerable, and Alstar has long claimed that combining this with Gattlings will make any air units a history. Oxidizer is a support unit and can't damage aircrafts themselves though

 

HQ : Colossus - They deploy literally instantly. Just move them and deploy, perfect stationary AA. Try to shield them with Chimera Core/Hazequad and even Uragan (the guy that shoots plasma orbs) can't outrange them.

 

Don't rely too much on stationary base defenses or Tier 1s. They won't do much. Also, adepts are nice line of defenses against tanks.

 


Edited by Handepsilon, 31 August 2017 - 06:02 AM.

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#5 tho12

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 09:25 AM

PsiCorps : Gehenna - They're powerful and their Dybbuk-Is can arguably reach infinite range, but the platform likes to follow up with the Interceptor, which makes constant vigilance a requirement

That's rather annoying to deal with for me. My base is usually so crowded that I have issues finding them after they move. And if they venture beyond the turret wall, they're dead. If one could "deploy" them, that'd be a perfect option.....

 

 

Scorpion Cell : Oxidizer - I don't use these often, but they're bunkerable, and Alstar has long claimed that combining this with Gattlings will make any air units a history. Oxidizer is a support unit and can't damage aircrafts themselves though
Oxidizer is great, probably my fav aa unit in the game. But SC I find to weak in Heavyobject to be viable. Maybe I'm just bad with them.
 

 

HQ : Colossus - They deploy literally instantly. Just move them and deploy, perfect stationary AA. Try to shield them with Chimera Core/Hazequad and even Uragan (the guy that shoots plasma orbs) can't outrange them.

Good point about cloak shield, will definitely try it out. Somehow I tought cloak doesn't do much vs AI so never bothered with it....

Even if this makes defence work, I'm still having trouble pushing forward with Epsilons.

I did have a rather nice attempt yesterday with Psicorps (Russia ally) on Hard difficulty. Stilll got ran over about 50 min in game, due to a grave mistake - I lost several power structures, which led to psychic towers going off-line which led to quick defeat.

On a sidenote, I believe Pacific front may be quite good here. Norio can hold the left cliff alone probably, while Tortoises + Zephyrs/Blizzards/Supressors can push forward. Also they get Skyray cannon, which is probably the best static defence in the game and can outrange Uragan.



#6 Chaplain5

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 08:51 PM

 

Scorpion Cell : Oxidizer - I don't use these often, but they're bunkerable, and Alstar has long claimed that combining this with Gattlings will make any air units a history. Oxidizer is a support unit and can't damage aircrafts themselves though

 

This. Naturally it's more micro-managey than a regular AA unit, but just put a 'Dizer next to a few Gatling Cannons or Tanks and watch enemy air units become history. It works.

 

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#7 tho12

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:50 PM

If you're playing Epsilon, you have lots of Tier 3 AA option.

 

PsiCorps : Gehenna - They're powerful and their Dybbuk-Is can arguably reach infinite range, but the platform likes to follow up with the Interceptor, which makes constant vigilance a requirement

 

Scorpion Cell : Oxidizer - I don't use these often, but they're bunkerable, and Alstar has long claimed that combining this with Gattlings will make any air units a history. Oxidizer is a support unit and can't damage aircrafts themselves though

 

HQ : Colossus - They deploy literally instantly. Just move them and deploy, perfect stationary AA. Try to shield them with Chimera Core/Hazequad and even Uragan (the guy that shoots plasma orbs) can't outrange them.

 

Don't rely too much on stationary base defenses or Tier 1s. They won't do much. Also, adepts are nice line of defenses against tanks.

 

I managed to beat Heavyobject with PSicorps, Coronia AI ally; normal difficulty. Gehennas were pretty bad actually. If one could put this in a bunker, A+ rating. Since you can't, it's kinda bad. I even tried walling them, but wall doesn't give the protection you get from a bunker...Overall, I didn't like them. Even when I finally managed to make a push towards Foehn base and take infiltrate CC and Lab, Salamanders kinda dissapointed me. They're neat and all, but Wolfhounds seem to work just as good and are readilly available. Basilisks were great vs buildings, when massed they seem to be somewhat decent vs units due to large AoE of their attacks.

I also beat this with PF. Not too shabby - when those Future Tanks + Quickshifters became available it was rather easy to both push and defend with a wall of Rocketeers + Thors backing up several Prisms, while tech units provide a steady base for pushing. Fortresses & Aircrafts I didn't even bother building. 



#8 Handepsilon

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:25 AM

you mean EA. PF has no Prism or Thor, unless you somehow capped the EA's base

Salamander is far more superior than Wolfhounds in the fact that it has 2 sets automated confusion rays (one is shot in long range, the other is applied to units below) and dense armor. It's not good at attacking infantries, but with the confusion ray it doesn't need to.


Edited by Handepsilon, 07 September 2017 - 08:43 AM.

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#9 tho12

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:08 PM

you mean EA. PF has no Prism or Thor, unless you somehow capped the EA's base

Yea, it was EA.

 

 

Salamander is far more superior than Wolfhounds in the fact that it has 2 sets automated confusion rays (one is shot in long range, the other is applied to units below) and dense armor. It's not good at attacking infantries, but with the confusion ray it doesn't need to.

Kind of...I don't really care about armor on air units, tbh. Most of the units can't attack them anyway. With sufficient numbers (much easier to obtain with Wolfs than Salamanders) even dedicated AA stuff dies before it can do any serious damage.



#10 TheWankBank

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:53 AM

Since you're a new player, you probably don't even know how much this " feedback " is flawed and not researched.

 

1) That's the entire point, you have to macro manage to keep your buildings alive, K is the hotkey for the repair tool, if you want a more simpilar RTS playstyle, I suggest you should play Halo Wars/Halo Wars 2

 

2) Atleast in the PVP scene, Invaders, Wolfhounds AND rocketeers are VERY situational. Thor gunships are a combination of EA's army, used for offense against INF and AIR.

 

3) Have you ever heard of Mirage/Cavalier tanks???

 

4) Well, if you want a steamrolling faction, go with China or Pacific Front.

 

PVE has some serious issues, like the AI not being clever enough to build like more than 5 anti air units against for example: Wolfhounds

 

PVP, most of these points are just bland.

 

Also by what I'm seeing here, you want more automated things and more " Jack-Of-All-Trades " units, why tho? this isn't some cheap RTS like Halo Wars.


Edited by TheWankBank, 17 September 2017 - 08:54 AM.

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#11 tho12

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 04:40 PM

Since you're a new player, you probably don't even know how much this " feedback " is flawed and not researched.


2) Atleast in the PVP scene, Invaders, Wolfhounds AND rocketeers are VERY situational. Thor gunships are a combination of EA's army, used for offense against INF and AIR.


PVE has some serious issues, like the AI not being clever enough to build like more than 5 anti air units against for example: Wolfhounds

 

PVP, most of these points are just bland.

 

Also by what I'm seeing here, you want more automated things and more " Jack-Of-All-Trades " units, why tho? this isn't some cheap RTS like Halo Wars.

 


 

 

Nowdays, I only play one challenge - Heavyobject (w/o Superweapons). 

1) building repairs. This is a chore to do constantly. Since you're bombarded all time with various bombs, rockets etc. your buildings constantly take damage. Might not be enough to kill them, but they will blow up after a few hits. Clicking "repair" button several thousand times isn't fun. Is it possible to make an option so that bulidings auto-repair?



#12 TheWankBank

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:01 PM

 

Since you're a new player, you probably don't even know how much this " feedback " is flawed and not researched.


2) Atleast in the PVP scene, Invaders, Wolfhounds AND rocketeers are VERY situational. Thor gunships are a combination of EA's army, used for offense against INF and AIR.


PVE has some serious issues, like the AI not being clever enough to build like more than 5 anti air units against for example: Wolfhounds

 

PVP, most of these points are just bland.

 

Also by what I'm seeing here, you want more automated things and more " Jack-Of-All-Trades " units, why tho? this isn't some cheap RTS like Halo Wars.

 


 

 

Nowdays, I only play one challenge - Heavyobject (w/o Superweapons). 

1) building repairs. This is a chore to do constantly. Since you're bombarded all time with various bombs, rockets etc. your buildings constantly take damage. Might not be enough to kill them, but they will blow up after a few hits. Clicking "repair" button several thousand times isn't fun. Is it possible to make an option so that bulidings auto-repair?

 


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Command and Conquer Red Alert 2/3 and Yuri's Revenge

Command and Conquer Tiberium Wars/ Kane's Wrath/ and Sun

Command and Conquer Generals and Zero hour

 


#13 lovalmidas

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:36 PM

Could give you some pass on Invaders, but Wolfhounds​ cover too many things (all armor, anti-air and non-defense structures) to be called 'situational', even if against a knowing player. You may want to elaborate. :p

 

AI has always been weak to aircraft.

 

The moment Speeder approves of using all buildings auto-repair (which he likely won't because Tech Maintenance Facility would be out of job), would be the time when I start making you bankrupt due to the repair costs. :p


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#14 LordDesolator777

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:13 PM

I used HQ to beat HeavyObject. I was able to sneak Rahn behind enemy lines with a Driller to do a good amount of sabotage. Took out over half the enemy's tech structures with him. From there I used large swarms of Stalkers backed by Basilisk/Invader air support to push forward, eventually overwhelming the Foehn base and destroying it. I then set up a forward base where the Foehn one was. From there it was just about sending waves of Stalkers, Basilisks, and Opus tanks to wear down the enemy defenses. Eventually my Stalkers got close enough to take out the 3 Steinstech towers and the Eiffel tower. Once those main defenses fell, the enemy didn't last much longer.



#15 Graion Dilach

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 05:49 PM

A compromise regarding building repair would be to permaenable the Ares feature that building repair gets suspended (instead of outright canceled) when the player runs out of money. Thereby it would still keep the micro requirement, but also restrain the player to respam repairs every time the harvester dumps resources.


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