Jump to content


Photo

Does anyone believe in Santa Claus?


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 PurpleGaga27

PurpleGaga27

    C&CTA Creator

  • Members
  • 397 posts

Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:33 AM

Children thought so, but adults... not really. The fact remains that the original Santa Claus was St. Nicholas who started the gifts of Christmas, and then many people were inspired to become like him... even through today.

 

Well it isn't Christmas yet, and now Santa Claus' original tomb has been discovered.... in Turkey?! (not the north pole?) https://www.washingt...aeologists-say/



#2 Pasidon

Pasidon

    Splitting Hares

  • Network Admins
  • 8,662 posts
  • Location:Da Moon
  • Projects:YouTube
  •  Actual Celebrity
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Community Admin

Posted 05 October 2017 - 05:40 PM

wtf....

 

As an actual archaeologist, I feel obligated to tell you that any article that uses history.com as its sole reference is entirely misinformed.  Just because the obnoxiously commercialized Santa Claus is called "St. Nicholas"  doesn't mean he was based around any actual saint.  I'm sure Coka Cola wants you to believe otherwise.  What's next?  We'll be debating if the Geico lizard is real because it was modeled off a real lizard from Sweden?


YT_Sig.jpgoutput_Fkd6it.gifFB_Sig.jpg


#3 Mathijs

Mathijs

    You ever heard the story about the scorpion and the frog?

  • Division Leaders
  • 13,425 posts
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Leader

Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:10 PM

Yeah, but, he actually was, though, to a large degree.


“The special quality of hell is to see everything clearly down to the last detail.” ~ Yukio Mishima, The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
 


#4 Pasidon

Pasidon

    Splitting Hares

  • Network Admins
  • 8,662 posts
  • Location:Da Moon
  • Projects:YouTube
  •  Actual Celebrity
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Community Admin

Posted 07 October 2017 - 10:55 AM

But the saint in question was not Santa Claus.  No one actually called him that.


YT_Sig.jpgoutput_Fkd6it.gifFB_Sig.jpg


#5 Mathijs

Mathijs

    You ever heard the story about the scorpion and the frog?

  • Division Leaders
  • 13,425 posts
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Leader

Posted 07 October 2017 - 12:36 PM

As an actual archaeologist, I feel obligated to tell you that any article that uses history.com as its sole reference is entirely misinformed.  Just because the obnoxiously commercialized Santa Claus is called "St. Nicholas"  doesn't mean he was based around any actual saint.  I'm sure Coka Cola wants you to believe otherwise.  What's next?  We'll be debating if the Geico lizard is real because it was modeled off a real lizard from Sweden?

 

Nobody's saying St. Nicholas was literally Santa Claus. But the figure of the American bearded giftgiver is based on him (and on older Germanic traditions (Odin) and English folklore (Father Christmas). 

I guess, in fairness, it's more accurate to say that the European counterpart is directly based on St. Nicholas, while the American Santa Claus is a result of marketing, some savvy writers, and the American melting pot culture which included the mainland tradition as well as the English Father Christmas.


“The special quality of hell is to see everything clearly down to the last detail.” ~ Yukio Mishima, The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
 


#6 Pasidon

Pasidon

    Splitting Hares

  • Network Admins
  • 8,662 posts
  • Location:Da Moon
  • Projects:YouTube
  •  Actual Celebrity
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Community Admin

Posted 07 October 2017 - 04:59 PM

In fairness, the term "Santa Claus" was coined by folksy people who didn't even make the connection to St. Nicholas until the late 19th century.


YT_Sig.jpgoutput_Fkd6it.gifFB_Sig.jpg


#7 Mathijs

Mathijs

    You ever heard the story about the scorpion and the frog?

  • Division Leaders
  • 13,425 posts
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Leader

Posted 07 October 2017 - 06:37 PM

I don't think that's true.

 

The name Santa Claus directly stems from Saint Nicholas. Nobody came up with the word 'Santa Claus' on their own and then retroactively linked it to St. Nicholas. Santa Claus, Sante Klaas, Sinterklaas, Niklaus (in German). It wasn't coined by folksy people, it got changed by folksy people. 


“The special quality of hell is to see everything clearly down to the last detail.” ~ Yukio Mishima, The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
 


#8 Pasidon

Pasidon

    Splitting Hares

  • Network Admins
  • 8,662 posts
  • Location:Da Moon
  • Projects:YouTube
  •  Actual Celebrity
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Community Admin

Posted 07 October 2017 - 08:04 PM

But when they were originally using the term Santa, they were not referring to the saint.  The name doesn't appear in any historic texts at all, in reference to the saint personally.  Even if the name was derived from St. Nickolas, the entire alternative name was created around a folk tale.


YT_Sig.jpgoutput_Fkd6it.gifFB_Sig.jpg


#9 Mathijs

Mathijs

    You ever heard the story about the scorpion and the frog?

  • Division Leaders
  • 13,425 posts
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Leader

Posted 07 October 2017 - 08:22 PM

http://www.etymonlin...erm=Santa Claus


“The special quality of hell is to see everything clearly down to the last detail.” ~ Yukio Mishima, The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
 


#10 Pasidon

Pasidon

    Splitting Hares

  • Network Admins
  • 8,662 posts
  • Location:Da Moon
  • Projects:YouTube
  •  Actual Celebrity
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Community Admin

Posted 07 October 2017 - 08:59 PM

I mean articles in the time of his life and death, in reference to Nicholas.  That link is just an extension of my point.  The very first references to the name are from an an American printing press in regards to the folk icon and likely had no reference to the original saint at all.  St. Nicholas was never associated with the name Santa until 200 or so years after his death, which in turn, no one actually claimed that the dead saint was the folk icon.  Rather, Santa Claus was inspired by the saint as an entirely different entity, simply borrowing from the name and a few traits. 


YT_Sig.jpgoutput_Fkd6it.gifFB_Sig.jpg


#11 OmegaBolt

OmegaBolt

    Lost In The New Real

  • Hosted
  • 6,240 posts
  • Location:London, England
  • Projects:Red-Resurrection
  •  O'Bolt

Posted 07 October 2017 - 09:08 PM

Someones not getting any presents this year.


Y9QCJ74.png

zDrYX5h.pngymRUfVt.pngFU5MaSs.pngZZWRyD4.png


#12 Mathijs

Mathijs

    You ever heard the story about the scorpion and the frog?

  • Division Leaders
  • 13,425 posts
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Leader

Posted 07 October 2017 - 09:28 PM

I mean articles in the time of his life and death, in reference to Nicholas.  That link is just an extension of my point.  The very first references to the name are from an an American printing press in regards to the folk icon and likely had no reference to the original saint at all.  St. Nicholas was never associated with the name Santa until 200 or so years after his death, which in turn, no one actually claimed that the dead saint was the folk icon.  Rather, Santa Claus was inspired by the saint as an entirely different entity, simply borrowing from the name and a few traits. 

 

No... the 'folk icon' is a direct extrapolation from both St. Nicholas with bits of the English 'protestant' Father Christmas. Santa Claus is a bastardization of the name Sinterklaas, which is a bastardization of the name Saint Nicholas. We still occasionally call 'Sinterklaas' Sint Nikolaas here, which is literally the same thing as St. Nicholas. The very first reference to 'Santa Claus' literally still has the 'Saint' bit (St.) intact. 

I think you're confusing the point. Nobody's saying that St. Nicholas *was* literal Santa Claus. They're saying that they found the gravesite of the guy that Santa Claus was indisputably based on for a large part.


“The special quality of hell is to see everything clearly down to the last detail.” ~ Yukio Mishima, The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
 


#13 Pasidon

Pasidon

    Splitting Hares

  • Network Admins
  • 8,662 posts
  • Location:Da Moon
  • Projects:YouTube
  •  Actual Celebrity
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Community Admin

Posted 08 October 2017 - 05:10 AM

The fact remains that the original Santa Claus was St. Nicholas who started the gifts of Christmas

That's exactly what was being said.


YT_Sig.jpgoutput_Fkd6it.gifFB_Sig.jpg


#14 Mathijs

Mathijs

    You ever heard the story about the scorpion and the frog?

  • Division Leaders
  • 13,425 posts
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Leader

Posted 08 October 2017 - 11:47 AM

Right, and that is accurate. Unless you interpret the statement literally, as meaning that St. Nicholas was literally Santa Claus, which'd be a weird interpretation, because the statement also includes the mention of St. Nicholas, so clearly that's not the same thing as Santa Claus. Again, nobody's saying what you're interpreting. 

 

The meaning of the statement is not that Santa Claus is literally the same guy as the saint, in every respect, but that Santa Claus' progenitor, 'the original', was St. Nicholas, who started the tradition of yuletide gift-giving.

 

Now, if he'd said 'the fact remains that the original Santa Claus died in southern Turkey on his last trip from the North Pole', then... yes, yes, that'd be wrong. The actual article as linked in the OP is just being funny in the opening. 


“The special quality of hell is to see everything clearly down to the last detail.” ~ Yukio Mishima, The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
 


#15 Pasidon

Pasidon

    Splitting Hares

  • Network Admins
  • 8,662 posts
  • Location:Da Moon
  • Projects:YouTube
  •  Actual Celebrity
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Community Admin

Posted 08 October 2017 - 06:22 PM

So it's accurate as long as you don't take it literally.  That's exactly why this entire article is misinformative.  It's speaking as if the 15th century had a guy named Santa Claus - the "original" Santa Claus even, who was "also named St. Nickolas."  Utterly incorrect.  It's making misleading connections between a fictional character and an actual historic figure, and Xocom won't even defend his own article because he's a victim of its misleading nature.  


YT_Sig.jpgoutput_Fkd6it.gifFB_Sig.jpg


#16 Mathijs

Mathijs

    You ever heard the story about the scorpion and the frog?

  • Division Leaders
  • 13,425 posts
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Leader

Posted 08 October 2017 - 08:02 PM

facepalm-gif-13.gif


“The special quality of hell is to see everything clearly down to the last detail.” ~ Yukio Mishima, The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
 


#17 Pasidon

Pasidon

    Splitting Hares

  • Network Admins
  • 8,662 posts
  • Location:Da Moon
  • Projects:YouTube
  •  Actual Celebrity
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Community Admin

Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:16 PM

Actual footage of me.


YT_Sig.jpgoutput_Fkd6it.gifFB_Sig.jpg





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users