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Setting Up 3DS MAX 7,8,9 and 2008

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#61 Moreartillery

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 06:31 PM

Weird.Being ok in both OE and MAX means that something is worng with the code.
Did you change the clauses for the tracking?

No. It looks like it inherited the problem from the UA whm / whe.

 

This is what it looks like


Edited by Moreartillery, 28 July 2019 - 08:56 PM.


#62 Kaos_Crusader

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:02 AM

Sorry for my interruption, but did you check if any bone has the modifier called "TBC Rotation" applied where it shouldn't? Specifically, in the turret rotation bone.

 

Man, it's a modifier literally corrupted many of my animations, I had some possessed guys that seemed to shake like parkinson in idle state when TBC was active, and some heavy bolters shooting rudely to any side LOL. 

 

ON THE OTHER HAND
 
Did you check the aim animations? Can you play the aim animations in MAX correctly?
 
Many times when importing a model, the aim animations are damaged, this is something that everyone who has played a little with the models and MAX knows.
 
Interestingly, applying TBC rotation in these cases, SOLVE THE PROBLEM. But only with these aim animation files.

Edited by Kaos_Crusader, 29 July 2019 - 01:14 AM.


#63 Kekoulis

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:23 AM

Many times when importing a model, the aim animations are damaged, this is something that everyone who has played a little with the models and MAX knows.

Not sure if this targetted to me(better not) but checking the aims was the first thing I asked and Moreartillery said all are ok in MAX.

He should check for the TCB Rotation if it is applied as the Euler can cause issues.

There is a guide on how to that on the first page on that Relic News archive.


Edited by Kekoulis, 29 July 2019 - 09:46 AM.

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#64 Kaos_Crusader

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:48 AM

Sorry Brother Kekoulis, It's targeted to Moreartillery. I didn't read the thread as it should to look your previous post, so it reveals how lazy I am
 
You're like a living MAX guy, so I'm not in a position to question you anything.  :smilehuh: 
 
Yeah, checked aims, well, maybe it's a TBC problem,
 
The most ironic thing is that the a63nt guide recommends setting TBC Rotation as "default" for all animations. PLEASE NOBODY DO THAT. There are animations that are horribly damaged if TBC is active. I don't know if it happened to you same, but as I said, I only had some models that shaking when TBC was default.


#65 Kekoulis

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 09:52 AM

 

Sorry Brother Kekoulis, It's targeted to Moreartillery. I didn't read the thread as it should to look your previous post, so it reveals how lazy I am
 
You're like a living MAX guy, so I'm not in a position to question you anything.  :smilehuh: 
 
Yeah, checked aims, well, maybe it's a TBC problem,
 
The most ironic thing is that the a63nt guide recommends setting TBC Rotation as "default" for all animations. PLEASE NOBODY DO THAT. There are animations that are horribly damaged if TBC is active. I don't know if it happened to you same, but as I said, I only had some models that shaking when TBC was default.

 

Yeah,no worries.  :thumbsuphappy: 

But there is something it should be noted.

With TCB,you get borked animations but correct mesh placement.

With Euler you get near perfect animation import but there is a chance the meshes in the ref file that are misplaced and thus need to be moved to the correct position anew.

Yeah,MAX is a bitch.

To get back to the aims.

I kinda fear there is a stale bone somewhere in the aims that should not be or a bone that must be stale but it is not in the vis.

All bones must be stale in the vis files!!!

 

In addition,in all aims,please check that in the 18 keyframe mark,the model is in the default position.

The 18th keyframe is the REF 50.00 you see in the aim modifier in OE and is the default that should be used in all cases,unless a target is at a different position.

If in the aim animations,the model is not at is ''default'' pose(guns looks straight) at the 18th keyframe,said animations must be remade.


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#66 Moreartillery

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 12:49 PM

 

Sorry for my interruption, but did you check if any bone has the modifier called "TBC Rotation" applied where it shouldn't? Specifically, in the turret rotation bone.

 

Man, it's a modifier literally corrupted many of my animations, I had some possessed guys that seemed to shake like parkinson in idle state when TBC was active, and some heavy bolters shooting rudely to any side LOL. 

 

ON THE OTHER HAND
 
Did you check the aim animations? Can you play the aim animations in MAX correctly?
 
Many times when importing a model, the aim animations are damaged, this is something that everyone who has played a little with the models and MAX knows.
 
Interestingly, applying TBC rotation in these cases, SOLVE THE PROBLEM. But only with these aim animation files.

 

Wait do you mean only aim bones should have TCB rotation? I set TCB as default because the guide said to.

 

The aim animations play correctly in max and the OE

 

All bones must be stale in the vis files!!!
 

In addition,in all aims,please check that in the 18 keyframe mark,the model is in the default position.

The 18th keyframe is the REF 50.00 you see in the aim modifier in OE and is the default that should be used in all cases,unless a target is at a different position.

If in the aim animations,the model is not at is ''default'' pose(guns looks straight) at the 18th keyframe,said animations must be remade.

Yep all of these are correct.

 

So how do you decide which rotation type to use when making an animation?



#67 Kekoulis

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:05 PM

 

Yep all of these are correct.

 

So how do you decide which rotation type to use when making an animation?

It does not matter for when making one.

It only matters for when importing.

And at this time,I would suggest remaking them.

BTW,in which priority do you have the aim motions in OE?

Aims first,actual animation last?


Edited by Kekoulis, 29 July 2019 - 01:07 PM.

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#68 Moreartillery

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 05:12 PM

 

 

Yep all of these are correct.

 

So how do you decide which rotation type to use when making an animation?

It does not matter for when making one.

It only matters for when importing.

And at this time,I would suggest remaking them.

BTW,in which priority do you have the aim motions in OE?

Aims first,actual animation last?

 

horizontal first, vertical second. I've been using the chimera made by relic as a reference, their turrets work the same way.

 

I tried rotating the aim vertical bone to compensate, that let the guns stay flat when Idle but didn't let it aim flat when the turret rotates. Its seems like the vertical aim pivot point gets rotated when the OE exports the model.

 

update: Tried switching to euler rotation and that just screwed up the animation, still trying different rotation types.

 

update2: switching to liner rotation didn't make a difference either, I don't think rotation type is the issue here.

Attached Files


Edited by Moreartillery, 29 July 2019 - 05:53 PM.


#69 Kaos_Crusader

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 09:42 PM

 

 

Wait do you mean only aim bones should have TCB rotation? I set TCB as default because the guide said to.

 

This may screw you or not, as Kekoulis said, MAX plays with you.
 
TCB Rotation set as default can corrupt animations. As much as the guide says otherwise.
Indeed, that guide points to vehicles, it does not refer to bipod troops. 
Default TCB Rotation may correct some aims of things like cannons or other weapons, but it causes devastating effects on bipod units.
 
In summary, if you use TCB Rotation set as default, you will get healthy aims, but the other animations will be corrupted, and it will be a great pain if you have no patience.
If you use Euler default, you will get healthy animations, but damaged aims.
 
Well, it may be easier to fix a model without Default TCB Rotation, with damaged aims, but with other healthy animations, than a model with applied Default TCB Rotation, with healthy aims, but with other corrupt animations. THAT'S MY OPINION.
 
At least, what I do, is to import WITHOUT TCB Rotation as default, that is, using the standard Euler. Then, I manually open the animations aims, (which are the ones that give problems) and correct them, in case there were problems.
 
In fact, the problem may come from ONE BONE and not from the whole set. In the aims .max files, verticals and horizontals, and so, you should notice which bone is animated, it usually has a simple designation "Bip01", although the name may change if it is a vehicle, of course. But it is, in effect, a master bone that moves the whole set. If you apply TBC Rotation ONLY TO THAT BONE, you will have solved the problem.
 
Although, generally when the aims are damaged, when playing the animation in MAX you will get a grotesque deformation in sight, And you have already verified that your aims are fine.

Edited by Kaos_Crusader, 30 July 2019 - 10:03 PM.


#70 Kekoulis

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 09:47 PM

Not only that,aims can be borked sometimes even with TCB.

 

The reason why TCB is recommended on the guide is because it is easier to rotate in the ref scene and it is less likely you will get misplaced meshes in the ref file during import.

 

Long story short.

If the rest of the animations are ok,then you only just have to redo the aims and check if the necessary bones are stale.

In the aims,you only need the animated bone NOT TO be stale.


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#71 Kaos_Crusader

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 09:59 PM

Not only that,aims can be borked sometimes even with TCB.

 

Well... I did not know that. I just don't play enough with TCB   :smilehuh:

 

 

The reason why TCB is recommended on the guide is because it is easier to rotate in the ref scene and it is less likely you will get misplaced meshes in the ref file during import.

 

Well, they are points of view. I use MAX 7 and I never got problems with misplaced meshes. If instead with bad aims and corrupt animations. In reality everything depends on what is being imported; there are cases of units such as the space marine vanilla that is smooth and friendly to edit without problems, and others like the ork slugga where every damn time I get vertex errors and I have to apply the Fix Skin.


Edited by Kaos_Crusader, 30 July 2019 - 10:05 PM.


#72 Moreartillery

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 10:09 AM

Is there a way to make a surface invisible from only one direction? I want to make a roof object for maps that is invisible from the top but can be seen when the camera zooms down to infantry level.



#73 Kekoulis

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 10:32 AM

Only if you force invisibility on that part(meaning,you will have to detach the surface you want to make invisible as its own mesh) or use an opacity layer in the rsh if you want it transparent.


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#74 Moreartillery

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 08:46 PM

Only if you force invisibility on that part(meaning,you will have to detach the surface you want to make invisible as its own mesh)

Wouldn't that make it transparent from both directions? What I need is the opposite of backface culling, so the object is invisible from the outside but visible from the inside.



#75 Kekoulis

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 09:07 PM

 

Only if you force invisibility on that part(meaning,you will have to detach the surface you want to make invisible as its own mesh)

Wouldn't that make it transparent from both directions? What I need is the opposite of backface culling, so the object is invisible from the outside but visible from the inside.

 

Well,you can't do that with the DOW Engine.

 

It is limited on this.

 

You have to get creative.

Either delete the vertices from the one side or flip the vertices of that part.
Depends on the mesh you are working on.


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#76 EzArIk

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 10:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Install the mod tools in Dawn of War Dark Crusade.

The mod tools were created based on Dark Crusade,not Soulstorm.However,any model you produce with them,can be used in Soulstorm just fine.

 

I tried that and got the same error again.

 

Do you actually have Dark Crusade installed?

 

In addition,the mod tools are hard coded to use this directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\THQ\Dawn of War Dark Crusade\ModTools

Make sure you have it such.

Lastly,make sure you have installed everything.Re-install if necessary.

 

I'm not sure if it's because I copied/pasted from my old computer instead of installing, but the mod tools I'm using work fine outside of that directory I have all my Dawn of War folders in "C:/users/Public/Programs/steam/steamapps/common//" and haven't had any issues, my models even export from an XP virtual machine to my dawn of war folder treating it as a shared network folder (had to that since for some reason Max crashes the display driver on this computer unless I run it in a vm)


Edited by EzArIk, 27 September 2019 - 10:50 AM.


#77 Kekoulis

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 12:15 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Install the mod tools in Dawn of War Dark Crusade.

The mod tools were created based on Dark Crusade,not Soulstorm.However,any model you produce with them,can be used in Soulstorm just fine.

 

I tried that and got the same error again.

 

Do you actually have Dark Crusade installed?

 

In addition,the mod tools are hard coded to use this directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\THQ\Dawn of War Dark Crusade\ModTools

Make sure you have it such.

Lastly,make sure you have installed everything.Re-install if necessary.

 

I'm not sure if it's because I copied/pasted from my old computer instead of installing, but the mod tools I'm using work fine outside of that directory I have all my Dawn of War folders in "C:/users/Public/Programs/steam/steamapps/common//" and haven't had any issues, my models even export from an XP virtual machine to my dawn of war folder treating it as a shared network folder (had to that since for some reason Max crashes the display driver on this computer unless I run it in a vm)

 

Then the gods were by your side then.

I always had issues with MAX 2008 concerning the file path.And many other people as well.

Also,I am not using a virtual machine for this.I am running in Win10 Pro with compatibility setting and works just fine.

Same with all modtools,provided they are in their file paths.

 

But of course,if it works on your end,all ok. :)


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#78 Moreartillery

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:27 AM

I made a new fire animation for the thunderfire cannon and for some reason the tracks no longer move ingame even though they do in the OE. I've been comparing it with the vanilla chimera and can't figure out why it doesn't work.

 

maybe this is relevant, from the whe burn log

 

00:38:41.55   BURNER_0 started at 2019-10-06 00:38
00:38:41.55   OS NT 6.1, 0MB Physical Memory
00:38:41.55   RUN-OPTIONS
00:38:41.55   WORKING-DIR C:\Program Files (x86)\THQ\Dawn of War - Dark Crusade\ModTools
00:38:41.55   USER Admin
00:38:41.55   
00:38:41.55   SPOOGE - Driver[Null] on adapter[1146909548], version[4,32]
00:38:41.57   'troops': WARNING -- Motion 'idle_aim_horiz_right' has an absolute modifier, has events, and does not ignore transitions -- it may skip events!
00:38:41.57   'troops': WARNING -- Motion 'idle_aim_vert_right' has an absolute modifier, has events, and does not ignore transitions -- it may skip events!
00:38:41.58   
Application closed without errors



#79 Kekoulis

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:36 AM

I made a new fire animation for the thunderfire cannon and for some reason the tracks no longer move ingame even though they do in the OE. I've been comparing it with the vanilla chimera and can't figure out why it doesn't work.

 

maybe this is relevant, from the whe burn log

 

00:38:41.55   BURNER_0 started at 2019-10-06 00:38
00:38:41.55   OS NT 6.1, 0MB Physical Memory
00:38:41.55   RUN-OPTIONS
00:38:41.55   WORKING-DIR C:\Program Files (x86)\THQ\Dawn of War - Dark Crusade\ModTools
00:38:41.55   USER Admin
00:38:41.55   
00:38:41.55   SPOOGE - Driver[Null] on adapter[1146909548], version[4,32]
00:38:41.57   'troops': WARNING -- Motion 'idle_aim_horiz_right' has an absolute modifier, has events, and does not ignore transitions -- it may skip events!
00:38:41.57   'troops': WARNING -- Motion 'idle_aim_vert_right' has an absolute modifier, has events, and does not ignore transitions -- it may skip events!
00:38:41.58   
Application closed without errors

Replied to the other thread.

Better please to keep this thread clean as it is meant for setting up MAX.Not questions for actual MAX use.Instead use your other thread.I follow it as well.


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