29 replies to this topic

[JackoDerp]

As early as 3.3.3 changelog was made public I did a comment about problems coming due to blizzard new powers. And I still think hailstorms are 2 good, at least fire on the move -auto targetting- should be removed to this units considering it does splash damage+good anti-infantry+long range+target pursuit.

Hailstorms are less of a problem and they are mostly about covering any infantry the Blizzards can't get, which at the moment is not very much.

That said, 3.3.3 PF is waaaay more balanced than before. A PF late blob still costly AF and in any circumstance you are supposed to avoid frontal combat against those, just like when facing LB late blobs.
Instead, try to bait them and aim for buildings and miners. Probably not in that order.

Except this blob is about 5 times faster than a Last Bastion Blob.

Also, SW can be very devastating against slow armies, and both Chronosphere and IC can be used to bypass the main army and kill tech.

Turtling against PF sounds like a deathwish.

If all these fail, then ask you this questions:
Am I using a good SF to play against PF in this scenario? For a short comment about the last: all "balanced" Sub-factions can counter PF due to extra mobility and decent armor in most circumstances. -PC, RU, EA, idk who is the "balanced" foehn WoC? + USA and LC are good options in open maps and can break through PF lines using raw power and speed + debuffers

This is the problem though, if it comes down to "Pick a better subfaction" you're ignoring half the problem and limiting the game itself.

[CLAlstar]

 

I'd suggest playing PF for a couple days in 1v1 against different people to get a feel for their weaknesses.

You know, i could have said this to everyone who had problems with Coronia. Thats almost exactly same scenario, amirite?

 

Oh wait, its not because coronia actually got nerfed without any goofy recompensations that made it broken again.

[TheWankBank]

4 Battletorts with the following composition:

1 Suppressor 

1 Navy Seal
2 GGIs 

will decimate your ENTIRE army of tanks/infantry and aircraft, sure you could kill the enemy and waste atleast 12,000 dollars of his money, but the losses you'll suffer unless you have some god EMP or micro, will be greater, thus creating a curve of victory towards your enemy despite you winning the engagement, you are BOUND to lose, no matter if they kill you or you kill them.

 

I've tested this in 5 games, unfortunately I cannot upload videos due to my speed being shit.

 

I still consider them a issue for frontline tanking, as they tank too much. 

I got off-topic there, had to bring up this issue.

Edited by TheWankBank, 19 March 2018 - 01:37 PM.

[TeslaCruiser]

Also, SW can be very devastating against slow armies, and both Chronosphere and IC can be used to bypass the main army and kill tech.

Turtling against PF sounds like a deathwish.

If all these fail, then ask you this questions:
Am I using a good SF to play against PF in this scenario? For a short comment about the last: all "balanced" Sub-factions can counter PF due to extra mobility and decent armor in most circumstances. -PC, RU, EA, idk who is the "balanced" foehn WoC? + USA and LC are good options in open maps and can break through PF lines using raw power and speed + debuffers

This is the problem though, if it comes down to "Pick a better subfaction" you're ignoring half the problem and limiting the game itself.

 

 

"Everyone should be as valuable than the rest in any situation"
Well, that is not how this game balance works. Choosing the right Sub-faction is as important as what you do once the game starts.
Some Sub-factions will do better than others in a given situation, that is a fact. If you think the developers made a systematic and massive error by including these weaknesses/strengths across the factions or if you think it should not work that way... that is a different story.

Also, when did I say you should turtle against PF? This may surprise you, but aggressive playstyle + fast super weapons happens all the time.

[NorthFireZ]

 
I'd suggest playing PF for a couple days in 1v1 against different people to get a feel for their weaknesses.

You know, i could have said this to everyone who had problems with Coronia. Thats almost exactly same scenario, amirite?
 
Oh wait, its not because coronia actually got nerfed without any goofy recompensations that made it broken again.

I suggested that because things aren’t going to change for a while. So might as well buckle down and brace the cyrogeneic storm by learning how to play against them. You aren’t going to get anywhere by spreading a label and causing misconceptions. However that was not the main point and it shouldn’t be treated as such.

[JackoDerp]

4 Battletorts with the following composition:

1 Suppressor 
1 Navy Seal
2 GGIs 

will decimate your ENTIRE army of tanks/infantry and aircraft, sure you could kill the enemy and waste atleast 12,000 dollars of his money, but the losses you'll suffer unless you have some god EMP or micro, will be greater, thus creating a curve of victory towards your enemy despite you winning the engagement, you are BOUND to lose, no matter if they kill you or you kill them.
 
I've tested this in 5 games, unfortunately I cannot upload videos due to my speed being shit.
 
I still consider them a issue for frontline tanking, as they tank too much. 

I got off-topic there, had to bring up this issue.

And each of those BattleTorts are... uhhh
$2000 BT + $1100 Suppressor + $650 SEAL + 2x$250 GGI = $4250

Its very potent, but also expensive, and not a huge range.
You say 4 of them? ok thats $17000
Blizzards are $1350 a piece and Zephyrs... $950? So one of each is about $2700
For that same $17000 you could get something like 6 Zephyrs and Blizzards (or 5Blizz/8Zeph) etc
And get similar damage at a bigger range........ hmmmmmmmm

BTs might sound faster and easier to make at the time, but don't forget that most PF players will accumulate a number of Zephyrs before getting T3, meaning a few blizzards and suppressors and ez deathblob.

[Destroyencio]

And this also happens easily with Russia & Latin which get their main deathbloobs of Cruisers/Wolfhound or Desolators in Catastrophes with the Industrial Plant discount bonus and nobody bats an eye. And these units can also do proper hit 'n run and are also effective against all kind of targets, not to mention Dustdevils/Smoke bombs debuffing your army or TCs EMPing it. 

Edited by Destroyencio, 19 March 2018 - 03:23 PM.

[JackoDerp]

And this also happens easily with Russia & Latin which get their main deathbloobs of Cruisers/Wolfhound or Desolators in Catastrophes with the Industrial Plant discount bonus and nobody bats an eye. And these units can also do proper hit 'n run and are also effective against all kind of targets, not to mention Dustdevils/Smoke bombs debuffing your army or TCs EMPing it.

And I already said I think Teslacruisers, Volkov and Catas were too easy to use for that same reason.
And while Russia are incredibly potent Latin can still be overwhelmed even with Desocatas... sometimes.

Having said that they have shorter range than Blizz/Zephyrs

[CLAlstar]

I suggested that because things aren’t going to change for a while. So might as well buckle down and brace the cyrogeneic storm by learning how to play against them.

But that doesnt fix the problem. Balance wont magically fix itself after playing couple of games. Did you think that people havent tried anything like that with other factions that were considered OP? (3.0 PsiCorps/Latin, 3.3 Coronia/Haihead)

 

So far from what i see its not proposing actual solutions, its avoiding the problems for whatever reason.

[NorthFireZ]

I suggested that because things aren’t going to change for a while. So might as well buckle down and brace the cyrogeneic storm by learning how to play against them.

But that doesnt fix the problem. Balance wont magically fix itself after playing couple of games. Did you think that people havent tried anything like that with other factions that were considered OP? (3.0 PsiCorps/Latin, 3.3 Coronia/Haihead)
 
So far from what i see its not proposing actual solutions, its avoiding the problems for whatever reason.

You forgot to include the second part of that post by the way ^__^ “That was not the main point and should not be treated as such.” I don’t want to get an argument filled with cherry picking points, making snarky comments, and constantly switching positions in order to appear like Someone is winning a point. There’s no benefit to anyone doing that. If ya want to pick a fight on semantics, do it in dms and not on the forums

Still, if you want to fix anything, start with the overloaded Blizzard tank (original point). Take firing on the move away and return friendly fire. Make the thing a pain to use again.