421 replies to this topic

[Opus Custom Tank]

You know if you capture enemy wf you cannot build there own T1 basic tank, IFV and Tigrs. The game only give you certain units. And if you capture the enemy wf, t2 building you can train there MCV but this MCV is have limited arsenal unlike orginal.

Allied: Cavalier and Styrker
Soviet: Rhino and Halftrack
Epsilon: Lasher
Foehn: Bison

So do you change it? And you know if you have a basic tank on that faction you cannot train the others. I mean if you are the LC and if you capture a enemy soviet wf you cannot train Rhino.

Edited by Opus Custom Tank, 20 August 2018 - 10:53 AM.

[Handepsilon]

Afaik it's still within Ares' limitation. Let me try to explain this in as less confusing way as possible :

 

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Let's say you're a Scorpion Cell and your opponent is... say, a Russian. You capture his MCV and it belongs to you, however... it retains its' subfaction status as a Russian MCV, which means it gives you a Russian structure tech tree. So far so good.

 

So you build your first Soviet Barracks from your Russian MCV.... but wait! You're still Scorpion Cell, so anything you build will be regarded as a Scorpion Cell stuff. So now, your Soviet Barracks is actually a Scorpion Cell Soviet Barracks instead of Russian Soviet Barracks. This also goes with your Soviet War Factory : It is a Scorpion Cell building instead of Russian one. Because of this, you don't get to access any Russian-related stuff that specifically only requires the War Factory to be a Russian building instead of needing stuff like Soviet Palace. Also important is the fact that any Soviet MCV you build after stealing tech tree will be treated as a Scorpion Cell Soviet MCV, which gives no subfaction bonuses unlike your stolen Russian MCV.

 

The situation would be different if you instead capture your Russian opponent's War Factory, which would give you a Russian War Factory, but surely the developers cannot just assume you'll also capture your opponent's War Factory and stuff.

 

Now you'll probably ask, why can you build Mortar Quads and Armadillo, or Epsilon/Foehn tech that requires a general Foehn structure? Well, you can only build that only if you have the subfaction specific tech building because they have Prerequisite Override. Now you'll ask, why not do that as well to the MBTs? Because.... well, then you will either have to get to T3 to unlock T1 stuff (which is ridiculous) or you'll get access to 2 different MBTs, depending on how it's handled. So instead they just normalize all MBT access for tech tree stealers.

[Opus Custom Tank]

I try to say, change that wf for every sub-faction. So we can train them, actually in some missions the wfs changed for enemies sub-faction like Scrapyard. The enemy have America wf and if you capture it you can build Bulldogs.

[JackoDerp]

That's singleplayer options that will inevtiably glitch out in multiplayer.
Like custom unit stats and such

[Handepsilon]

In most single player or co-op, you only fight against a specific subfaction, so that is manageable through ini editing in map. Such case is not doable in skirmishes.

Making different war factory for every subfaction is also a no go either. Imagine if you capture 3 Foehn MCV of different subfactions. That's 3 different Foehn war factory instances you can build! It's going to be a hassle and not worth the trouble in the end.

Edited by Handepsilon, 20 August 2018 - 11:57 PM.

[Opus Custom Tank]

3.3.4 is a myth. Summer almost end.

[Divine]

In most single player or co-op, you only fight against a specific subfaction, so that is manageable through ini editing in map. Such case is not doable in skirmishes.

Making different war factory for every subfaction is also a no go either. Imagine if you capture 3 Foehn MCV of different subfactions. That's 3 different Foehn war factory instances you can build! It's going to be a hassle and not worth the trouble in the end.

For the record, negative prerequisite is a thing. We could have separate war factories for subfactions, separate war factories for their combinations...and not only war factories. It would be a huge mess to code, tho.

Edited by Divine, 21 August 2018 - 04:05 PM.

[Handepsilon]

Yeah, not really worth the effort tbh. Also what if you stole 2 mcv of same faction and different subfaction?

[Divine]

Yeah, not really worth the effort tbh. Also what if you stole 2 mcv of same faction and different subfaction?

The way this could work with negative prerequisite is that for example, a Russian MCV would forbid building a Chinese or Latin War Factory, even if you have the MCV's of those factions. Having for example both a Russian and a Chinese MCV would however allow the player to build a War Factory that can produce the vehicles of both factions. Sticking with Soviet subfactions and War Factories, there would be a total of 7 Soviet War Factories.

 

Player has...

 

Russian MCV: can build Russian WF

Latin MCV: can build Latin WF

Chinese MCV: can build Chinese WF

Russian and Chinese MCV: can build a WF that builds both Russian and Chinese vehicles

Russian and Latin MCV: can build a WF that builds both Russian and Latin vehicles

Latin and Chinese MCV: can build a WF that builds both Latin and Chinese vehicles

Russian, Chinese, and Latin MCV: can build a WF that builds vehicles of all 3 subfactions. 

 

7 War Factories that are mutually exclusive thanks to negative prerequisites, and are visually indistinguishable by the player. So it is possible, but IMHO it's crude. I think the ideal solution would be somehow utilizing spies, like if a Russia player infiltrated the ConYard of a Latin player, then the Russian player could build Latin stuff. I don't know if basic prerequisites and stolen thech requirements can implement this, at worst negative prerequisites would have to be utilized, but with clones of the produced units instead of war factories and such, I guess.

Edited by Divine, 21 August 2018 - 06:42 PM.

[StolenTech]

not sure why we have to reinvent the wheel when the current system is working perfectly fine.

[Divine]

not sure why we have to reinvent the wheel when the current system is working perfectly fine.

It would be nice to have a polished, viable way to acquire the tech of other subfactions. Right now it is more of a random occurance and it works only partially. It would open the way for new tactics in the game. 

Edited by Divine, 21 August 2018 - 07:54 PM.

[Solais]

Actually, having visually different Conyards for subfactions would be cool. Like, not exactly completely different sprites, but some different visual details here and there. Especially in campaigns where it's not always evident until some time in what kind of units you'll be able to work with.

Edited by Solais, 21 August 2018 - 10:21 PM.

[Handepsilon]

Tbh it's not really necessary and is just time consuming for something that's ultimately going to have little use in the end. I mean, are you really going to use all the MBTs everyone has to offer? How often do you even use YOUR MBT anyways, unless you're Russian or Scorpion Cell?

Edited by Handepsilon, 22 August 2018 - 12:32 AM.

[Drezalnor]

3.3.4 is a myth. Summer almost end.

You deserve to reported simply for this.

Actually, having visually different Conyards for subfactions would be cool. Like, not exactly completely different sprites, but some different visual details here and there. Especially in campaigns where it's not always evident until some time in what kind of units you'll be able to work with.

Not a bad idea-if I recall correctly,in C&C:Shockwave,the Command Centres of the USA,China and GLA subfactions were visually different.

[BotRot]

Does the Rage's visual effect need to be larger? It's actual area-of-effect does not match the radius of the visual effects, so players would think that the Rage has a smaller AoE than it is, even if they are the ones using it.

 

Some evidence: https://vignette.wik...=20180820091919

[GameMaster0000]

 

3.3.4 is a myth. Summer almost end.

You deserve to reported simply for this.

Actually, having visually different Conyards for subfactions would be cool. Like, not exactly completely different sprites, but some different visual details here and there. Especially in campaigns where it's not always evident until some time in what kind of units you'll be able to work with.

Not a bad idea-if I recall correctly,in C&C:Shockwave,the Command Centres of the USA,China and GLA subfactions were visually different.

 

If I remember correct General it sperated Command Center for each general at the first place that it's easier just re-skin it.

 

But RA2/YR it's totally different that they share same structure.

If you want that you will need to create entire new structure for each sub faction that will too much work and may create unnecessary bug.

[PACER]

Just wonder if the Duplicant bug in Madness Challenge has been fixed?

[BotRot]

The Epsilon Adept seems to be missing a select quote ("Psychic ready"). Any reason why it is left out, while the same quote for the Dybbuk-Seizer (voiceset is just Yuri Clone's) isn't?

[JustJoking]

i wouldn't be surprised if they released the update on august 31st. It's the last day of summer, and it's on friday, there are more people online than other days

[Revan0123]

Actually, checking google, "summer" ends on the 23rd of September so it could still be a while yet...