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Weapon damage variable on target distance


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#1 Miros

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:03 PM

Hi!

I'm trying to model a seismic cannon ingame, and trying to implement the varying strength depending on target distance.

My idea is to have the weapon divided into two hardpoints, one with lower reach and another one with larger reach, so those enemies close by get hit by both while those further away only get hit by the latter.

The problem comes when you factor in weapon upgrades. Is there any way to have a weapon upgrade force another hardpoint upgrade?

Is there an easier way I might be missing? (I want to avoid using leaders if possible, the squad should have different caps for leaders and weapon upgrades)

Thanks!

#2 Gambit

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:24 PM

Is there any way to have a weapon upgrade force another hardpoint upgrade?

Not though AE :sad2:

Nor can a weapon upgrade or a weapon, directly apply any modifiers to the entity that gets it :thumbsdownsmiley:

Can't this be done in the model itself?

I mean, why make TWO hardpoints? Make one that does BOTH things... It is possible? (I suck at 3D)

 

Alternative 1 (best choice)

I hope it is not a squad but a building you want it for,... so you could revert the weapon upgrade, to ADDON. We have YOUR FreeUI marvel, so you can use the squad_from_squad menu, with a custom button :grad:

 

Alternative 2 (not sure)

SCaR,... although I will have to see if there is a boolean function checking if a specific entity has a specific hardpoint... I do not know of such a function. (but let me check, will report back asap)


Edited by Gambit, 06 July 2018 - 07:28 PM.

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#3 Miros

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:39 PM

Yeah, I thought about the addon thing... but it's a squad we're talking about :smile2ap:

 

3D is not an issue, but the actual unit damage. The idea is factoring in the target distance as an additional strategic element.

 

Also, I'm not sure on using SCaR... the race is already preaty heavily scrpted :whatoa:

 

Edit: Well, I could use a rule with Squad_Weapon_Count and then Squad_Upgrade_Weapon so the number of both weapons in the squad is always the same. They won't be on the same entity, though.


Edited by Miros, 06 July 2018 - 08:01 PM.


#4 Gambit

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:27 PM

Hmmm... Looked into SCaRdoc and found only one that is... only remotely useful. Won't do the job (and I am not sure if it works, it seemed non-DoW, because it had a couple strange references)...

Well, I could use a rule with Squad_Weapon_Count and then Squad_Upgrade_Weapon so the number of both weapons in the squad is always the same.

You got me, this is what I was thinking! :grad:

... Just to say that the commands are: Squad_UpgradeWeapon and Squad_WeaponCount (I know you know, I am just being a spelling troll :p )

There is also the boolean Squad_CanUpgradeWeapon.

They won't be on the same entity, though.

Entities are not afar most of the times... :p

By the way, is there any other weapon upgrade for that squad?

 

New Alternative

The idea is factoring in the target distance as an additional strategic element.

Here is an exotic alternative: Can you explore the possibility of the impact_ability of the weapon?
When a weapon has a projectile (and ONLY then), this ability kicks in on impact. If the weapon has no projectile, then you must create one, or have a dummy one holding the extra damaging effect.
Can this be helpful somehow?


Edited by Gambit, 06 July 2018 - 11:27 PM.

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#5 Shodar87

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 06:02 PM

Maybe something like Oblitz? More hardpoints + different ranges?



#6 Gambit

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 06:41 PM

Whoa, this is an excellent idea! With ONE hardpoint, you get MORE weapons!

I do not know though if the weapon_group mechanic,... DOES support multiple weapon ranges.

But why not? It is a VERY clever suggestion :thumbsuphappy:


Edited by Gambit, 07 July 2018 - 06:42 PM.

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#7 Miros

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:42 AM

Care to elaborate?

 

Edit: So, how does that work? All weapons in the group fire simultaneously? And what about the "armour_damage" values of the group itself?


Edited by Miros, 08 July 2018 - 09:00 AM.


#8 Gambit

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:13 AM

... I have never used the weapon mechanic, so I do not know. 

It simply seems the only mechanic that can "load" more than 1 weapon in 1 hardpoint - which seems close to what you are after, brother Miros. The first thing I would do is copy the mechanic from oblits, use 2 weapons, use different distances in each, and check damages based on distance...


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#9 Industrial_Strength

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:27 AM

I'm not familiar with the answer myself sadly enough. I may be able to help some regardless; hopefully. 🤞

LemonTree was discussing altering the range of Obliteraters on Discord with Thudo just the other day actually. So they may be able to help you out regarding information on this subject. I don't recall offhand all the conclusions that were reached. My apologies.

He's not online ATM but I sent him a DM on Discord to check this thread when he gets a chance. So hopefully he'll have some input. 😇

Edit: Spelling, Autocorrect Errors & Update to Current Info

Edited by Industrial_Strength, 08 July 2018 - 10:58 PM.

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#10 LemonTree

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 08:27 AM

Alright alright.Here is what i know about Obliterator regard to their weapon mechanic.Forgive me if i said anything wrong.Basically Obliterator use a range weapon that point to other range weapon,it call chaos_obliterator_ranged_groupO1.png?width=1259&height=298

 

Inside that weapon.there is a key atrribute that will specifically name those weapon that obliterator use,it called group_weapon_table,Obliterator have up to 3 gun,but you can add and subtract for your need

O2.png?width=867&height=616

 

From there on you can edit those weapon.I do believe that if you add a long range weapon and a shorter one,the game will use long range weapon by default,or you could chose the preference of those pointed gun to fit your need.Sound easy right,you can even create new gun and have the them pointed

However there is ONE problem,for some odd reason ,if you create a new weapon and point them using the group_weapon_table,that weapon will lose it's Fx visual,blame the chaos god for that one.

BUT if you point to a existing weapon on the weapon table it will work just fine,i manage to add Missle Launcher to obliterator range of weapon and they work just fine.However if i clone the missle launcher,give it a new name,then point the group_weapon_table 's weapon_04 to the custom weapon,the FX wil not be visible (you still deal damage and all the stuff)  

 

So to sum it up ,i think your option are :

Either point them to an unused weapon and custom that unused weapon for your need

Or create a custom weapon,point them from group_weapon_table and working on making the FX visible,i'm don't have much knowledge about FX but i think brother Gambit should be able to do it.He change the bloodly FX and Obliterator model in unification (emperor approved)

I will be waiting to hear more from your testing with this issue, it is rather fascinating to speculate it


Edited by LemonTree, 09 July 2018 - 08:30 AM.


#11 fuggles

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:18 AM

You could make it a scar ability?

#12 fuggles

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 01:55 PM

You can add abilities to a projectile, right? By design a projectile applying a damage boost every second that lasted for 10 would get stronger the longer it was in flight.

#13 Gambit

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 11:01 PM

The ability attached to the projectile of a ranged weapon, is triggered on impact.

So I do not see how this would work... Brother Fuggles, are you suggesting something else?

It is an interesting idea to explore, regardless. :thumbsuphappy:


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#14 Moreartillery

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 09:18 AM

My idea is to have the weapon divided into two hardpoints, one with lower reach and another one with larger reach, so those enemies close by get hit by both while those further away only get hit by the latter.

That will work, but if it has any scatter distance the projectiles will separate and it will look weird.

 

The problem comes when you factor in weapon upgrades. Is there any way to have a weapon upgrade force another hardpoint upgrade?

Maybe you can do this as an ability. Make an ability that disables the old hardpoints and enables the new ones, give it an activation cost and an extremely long duration.

 

Does anyone know if theres a limit on ability duration? I wonder if a two hour ability would crash the game.



#15 Gambit

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 12:57 PM

Does anyone know if theres a limit on ability duration? I wonder if a two hour ability would crash the game.

I do not think so... I have tried in the past values that exceed 3 hours, and had no issue - but I never waited that long to see if the ability was still active :p


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#16 Moreartillery

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 08:56 PM

On a related subject, is it possible to make artillery accuracy decrease with distance? I'm thinking of the basilisk specifically.



#17 Gambit

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 09:27 PM

Imposing accuracy modifiers is possible of course, but the conditions under which these would kick in, cannot be related to target distance. :thumbsdownsmiley:

 

Multiple Weapons also won't work, because playing with the Max_Range and Min_Range of each weapon, will make each of them firing against different targets AT ONCE. :thumbsdownsmiley:

 

... So I do not think it is possible.


Edited by Gambit, 17 January 2019 - 09:27 PM.

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#18 Moreartillery

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 04:39 AM

I've got the basilisk scatter distance to change based on range with the Obliterator mechanic. First weapon in the group has 0-60 range, the second has 60-120 and so on with increasing scatter distance each time. I have this method working in game right now, and it would let miros change the damage of each range bracket if he is so inclined.

 

The only problem is when a target moves between range brackets the weapon will fire before finishing the reload animation and that will mess up the animation. Obliterators don't have this issue because they don't have a reload animation. I need a way to give the weapon group a shared cool down or something like that. I'm SO CLOSE to making this perfect but I can't stop it from looking weird.



#19 Guest_EzArIk(not logged in)_*

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 12:38 AM

 

 

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 04:39 AM

I've got the basilisk scatter distance to change based on range with the Obliterator mechanic. First weapon in the group has 0-60 range, the second has 60-120 and so on with increasing scatter distance each time. I have this method working in game right now, and it would let miros change the damage of each range bracket if he is so inclined.

 

The only problem is when a target moves between range brackets the weapon will fire before finishing the reload animation and that will mess up the animation. Obliterators don't have this issue because they don't have a reload animation. I need a way to give the weapon group a shared cool down or something like that. I'm SO CLOSE to making this perfect but I can't stop it from looking weird.

 

hi, I don't know if you fixed this yet but surly a possibility would be that you used the impact ability people have been mentioning to do something like spawning an entity and place an ability on your basalisk which requires this entity and disables the appropriate hardpoints, plays the reload animation, haven't tested this way myself, but now I realised if it did work it would just play the animation for every basilisk, which would be much worse, an alternative could be to use an impact ability with "target self" and an enable abilities modifier (if the basalisk has no other abilities and assuming the impact ability respects ability target settings, but I've never tried this and I'm curious now if anyone has)))

and I know I'm a little late (and probably not logged in but) couldn't another way to make the siezmic cannon work simply be to add projectile set the projectile lifetime to e.g. 0.25% of max range + "explode on miss" (never really played with projectiles much), add impact ability with child abilities at forward offsets and with "in to out sweeping" that has left/right angle restricted and sweep speed adjusted so they all overlap on fire (I guess it works this way)


as a crude text based drawing it would be something like this
(A: unit) (o: projectile) (A:abilities)
A-x . . . . .  . . . . o*   A1;;;;;;;;;;;;->A1+2;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;->A1+2+3;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;-> (for increasing power with distance)
A-x . . . . .  . . . . o*  <-;;;;;;;;;;;; A1+2+3<-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;A2+3<-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;3 (for decreasing power with distance)

(I'm a little tired right now so I hope what I just wrote this actually makes some sense)


 



#20 Moreartillery

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 01:48 AM

hi, I don't know if you fixed this yet but surly a possibility would be that you used the impact ability people have been mentioning to do something like spawning an entity and place an ability on your basalisk which requires this entity and disables the appropriate hardpoints, plays the reload animation, haven't tested this way myself, but now I realised if it did work it would just play the animation for every basilisk, which would be much worse, an alternative could be to use an impact ability with "target self" and an enable abilities modifier (if the basalisk has no other abilities and assuming the impact ability respects ability target settings, but I've never tried this and I'm curious now if anyone has)))

and I know I'm a little late (and probably not logged in but) couldn't another way to make the siezmic cannon work simply be to add projectile set the projectile lifetime to e.g. 0.25% of max range + "explode on miss" (never really played with projectiles much), add impact ability with child abilities at forward offsets and with "in to out sweeping" that has left/right angle restricted and sweep speed adjusted so they all overlap on fire (I guess it works this way)


as a crude text based drawing it would be something like this
(A: unit) (o: projectile) (A:abilities)
A-x . . . . .  . . . . o*   A1;;;;;;;;;;;;->A1+2;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;->A1+2+3;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;-> (for increasing power with distance)
A-x . . . . .  . . . . o*  <-;;;;;;;;;;;; A1+2+3<-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;A2+3<-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;3 (for decreasing power with distance)

(I'm a little tired right now so I hope what I just wrote this actually makes some sense)


 

 

I don't think an impact ability can affect the shooter, though I haven't tried it. The second method you described sounds like it would create a trail of explosions toward the target and would hit anything along that path. It sounds cool but it wouldn't look like artillery.





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