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The problems with MBTs and why they suck.


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#21 Handepsilon

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 11:14 AM

Nanofiber Sync is for infantry only, utilizing the death animation system belonging to vanilla's Genetic Mutator (now Rahn's Terranova and Geneburst).


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#22 Drezalnor

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 12:55 PM

Nanofiber Sync is for infantry only, utilizing the death animation system belonging to vanilla's Genetic Mutator (now Rahn's Terranova and Geneburst).


I am fully aware of that-I was just saying that there could be possible scope to use it on vehicles(T1 preferably).
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#23 Divine

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 05:45 PM

Well I guess it would be easier for Ares to implement the brute transformation mechanic for vehicles than to implement a Generals / TW style upgrade system from scrach. Still, such solutions are half assed, and while they are definetaly good as niche techologies (such as the Nanofiber itself), I don't think that basing a ubiquitous game mechanic on it is a good idea.


Edited by Divine, 20 July 2018 - 05:45 PM.

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#24 Tathmesh

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 10:04 PM

Making MBTs stronger against structures and defenses, close to Cyclops-level, might be the best way to go imo.

If it's true that noone builds light vehicles, so noone builds MBTs to counter them, then making MBTs a bigger threat early game might incentivize people to build MBTs to counter MBTs. This would also touch on the issue of defenses making tanks obsolete.

I'm hoping though if any changes do come up, it doesn't drag out T1 to an unnecessary degree. MO is pretty tech-heavy and a lot of interesting gameplay moments (Superweapons, Support Powers, Monster Tanks with truly diversified gameplay) are locked behind tech buildings.

It'd be nice if MBTs were more interesting, but unless they are as interesting as monster tanks, I don't want them to overstay their welcome.

#25 FELITH

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 07:18 AM

what about making them easier to promote to elite and give a little bit buff to their elite status.

 

like, kill one of t3 monster tank instantly get to elite from a rookie. xD

 

the Veterancy system doesn't affect much to the game this would be a big change


Edited by FELITH, 21 July 2018 - 08:19 AM.


#26 Damfoos

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 09:54 AM

Veterancy in MO is merely a cosmetic feature with stat changes too insignificant to make a difference within a spam meta, unless you spam veteran units yourself. Elite MBT is like what, 25% more effective vs other MBTs and structures while the best option for AT and anti-structure would still be other things? Veterancy is harder to acheive here too, and while in vanilla it used to provide roughly 2x more dps or even more (from both elite weapon stats - increased damage and fire rate - and stat changes that are added to the unit automatically upon reaching the rank), in MO it mostly boosts dps with +25% dmg and in some cases fire rate boost which is <50% as well. So yeah, a little bit hard to notice the real difference other than the muzzle effect change and the fact that the tank becomes tougher.



#27 PACER

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 02:09 PM

Veterancy in MO is merely a cosmetic feature with stat changes too insignificant to make a difference within a spam meta, unless you spam veteran units yourself. Elite MBT is like what, 25% more effective vs other MBTs and structures while the best option for AT and anti-structure would still be other things? Veterancy is harder to acheive here too, and while in vanilla it used to provide roughly 2x more dps or even more (from both elite weapon stats - increased damage and fire rate - and stat changes that are added to the unit automatically upon reaching the rank), in MO it mostly boosts dps with +25% dmg and in some cases fire rate boost which is <50% as well. So yeah, a little bit hard to notice the real difference other than the muzzle effect change and the fact that the tank becomes tougher.

 

If I got it right, MO3.3 intentionally hinders CNC's veterancy system for balance reasons. Elite units in vanilla RA2 is worth roughly 4 rookie units, in MO they can hardly triumph over 2. In general, units by qualities are more likely to survive than units by quantities, thus more capable of accumulating veterancy. This will grant a major edge to Foehn over Epsilon. MO3.3 aims to eliminate this snowballing effect, or at least control it.

 

I propose the Starctaft 2 Roach as an excellent exemple of game balance. An early rush of 6-7 roaches can catch a player off guard. It remains useful in mid-game but only in large quantities, and becomes useless in late-game.

 

One simple solution: nerf basic AT infantry's scalar against MBTs by 40%. That should brighten his day.


Edited by PACER, 22 July 2018 - 05:53 AM.

In-game speed vs real life speed?   
Malver in Obisidian Sands?   
Strength-Agility-Intellect subfactions?    


#28 StolenTech

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 03:44 PM

there are units or defenses that don't even gain anything when they reach elite status other than cooler visual effects, that's how really irrelevant veterancy is.



#29 PACER

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 03:55 AM

there are units or defenses that don't even gain anything when they reach elite status other than cooler visual effects, that's how really irrelevant veterancy is.

 
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,FIREPOWER,FASTER
 
Although some maintains their rookie weapon, these tags still apply, giving them a bonus so small as I put it "hardly triumphs over 2 rookies" 

In-game speed vs real life speed?   
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