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#1 ZmajOgnjeniVuk

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 08:43 PM

Hello everyone.

So, after talking with Thudo over at Discord, he suggested I show the rest of you my idea for a gameplay mode that occurred to me few days back. I would like to hear what you have to say about it, from gameplay point of view, from technical point of view and anything else. 

Without further delay, the idea:
 

A couple of days back an idea for a DoW playing mode came to me so I wanted to share it with you to see what you think about it and to hear would it be possible to implement it.
Idea would be to change the way game is played completely and turn it from RTS into something, well, something else.
Skirmish would start as usual, player chooses a map, chooses a race and loads the map. For purpose of this explanation lets say player choose Space Marines.
Upon start of the skirmish, player would be offered a choice of what unit (emphasis on single unit) he would like to control. The game mode would use only infantry and heavy infantry, no vehicles or other relic units.
Given he chose Space Marine race, player can choose any of SM infantry and heavy infantry squads except the obviously useless in combat such as servitor or servo-skull. Player chooses tactical marines squad.
This is the only unit player has and controls, so there is no base building, domain expansion or army creation, just one unit.
Now, once the game starts player is free to wander the map and capture SP, CL and relics and every time player captures:
1. STRATEGIC POINT -  heavy weapon load out changes
Example: Player in our imaginary skirmish takes his first SP with his squad of tactical marines and it instantly receives, lets say, plasma guns, or heavy bolters. Every time player captures a SP weapon load out changes, so if the squad first got plasma guns, there is chance it will receive again plasma guns as weapon upgrade given that weapon upgrade would be random, but it would also have a chance to get either heavy bolters, rocket launchers or flamers.
I would be interested to hear would it be possible to upgrade the whole squad with heavy weapons instead of only standard 4 marines?
2. CRITICAL LOCATION – squad receives one ability out of three possible. One squad can have three abilities at any given time. Squad has chance to receive any ability which belongs to the race squad belongs to, in case here, tactical squad could receive any ability found within SM race, such as Word of the Emperor, Orbital strike and etc.
3. RELIC – in this moment I don’t have some clearly defined role for Relics, maybe it could add a hero, one from race hero rooster, or something else. It is open to suggestions.

Capturing of SP, CL and Relics would be instant, there would be no listening post/equivalent addons and given the fact player would control only one squad, even small requisition income would be enough to reinforce squad which suffered casualties. Reinforcement would be done as usual. The point of instant capture and no add-ons would be to direct player towards more aggressive play and constant move, where SP are seen as more of weapon appropriation points and not just resource providers.

Point of the game would be to win by wiping out all other squads on the map, and now that I think of it, I guess this could be a play somewhat resembling kill-team behavior. Maybe even the name of the playing mode could be Kill Team.

Problem I can see currently is the issue of race HQ. I would presume no skirmish can start without present hq but that creates the issue of it being attractive as a target to enemy given its stationary nature.
I would like to know is it possible to remove HQ from the map completely. The way I envisioned the gameplay, player would have only that one squad (and maybe 1 additional hero) on the map, no other squads or buildings.
Or there is an option to make HQ able to garrison units and be used as a structure for deep striking. Deep strike ability would be available as soon as unit goes into the HQ. Or, if making HQ garrison-able is a problem, maybe the deep strike ability could be given to the squad but would became usable only when unit is very close to the HQ.

Deepstrike ability would be really useful in a team vs team gameplay and in free for all situation could speed up game more. In case HQ gets destroyed, player squad would not be removed from the game.
 
So, what do you think? Is this doable? This way of playing seemed interesting to me as you don’t have to fuss about resources, base, army building, just pure combat as making it with what you receive on random. Does this seem as something interesting and fun to you as well?


I OVERALL DESIGN I
(Agreed so far and suggestions)


1. Player controls only 1 squad (AGREED)


2. There is a HQ in game for purpose of squad choice but is removed once player has chosen his squad (AGREED)


3. There is no SP and Relic add-ons (AGREED)


4. SP, CL and Relics are capped instantaneously or at 5x of normal capping speed (TBD)


5.  Entire squad is upgraded with weapons after capping SP, not just 4 members


6. Squad will have 10 members max (AGREED)


7. Providing player with ability to compose his own squad

 

8. Capping SP grants weapons upgrade (AGREED)

9. Capping CL grants new ability (AGREED)

10. Capping Relics grants a hero or something else, open to suggestions

11. All squads have deep strike ability for purpose of make game even faster, recharge time 30 seconds.

12. Squads keep their vanilla stats

13. There are only three abilities per squad

14. After capping 3 CL and getting 3 abilities, capping CL for a 4th time means one of the abilities will be swapped randomly for some other 

15. Leveling up (AGREED - already within Unification)

16. Weather effects (AGREED - already within Unification)

17.  Issue of ammo feature - as explained in more detail in post #5 of this thread

18. Last Stand with squads (AGREED)




This is not the final list of features, suggestions are welcome 


FUTURE PLANS

(by Brother Gambit)

So let's short this out. I will post the BIG plan, but note that it is only a SUGGESTION!!!
 

1] We make the Kill-Team win condition. And PERFECT it. Then...
 

2] We proceed with Last Stand. This is MUCH more complex. Within our skills of course. But probably.. "Without" our free time!
 

3] We proceed with the DoWDOTA and Space Hulk Win Conditions.
 

NOTE: Last StandDoWDOTASpace Hulk will require SPECIFIC maps! They will be Map-Based, like Survival ModeKill-Team can perfectly use the existing Skirmish maps of the game.




 


Edited by ZmajOgnjeniVuk, 05 September 2018 - 07:36 AM.


#2 ZmajOgnjeniVuk

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 08:58 PM

For the sake of keeping everyone's ideas and suggestions on one place, I will paste Thuds and Kekoulis suggestions here.

Thud:
 

Cool! AI should support it although it will always want to build an LP on a point except obviously Crits
Still.. AI could support it as you are "granting" updates to your squads based on what you cap
This only impacts Squads like Marines... so basically its INSTA-CAP so long as close to a cap point, no LP building. Based on what you cap, you get X,Y,Z attribs or buildable heroes? 

Kekoulis:

My suggestions:
1.)Skull probe is not useless.I suggest having either the Critical Point or the Relic give to the squad that captures it infiltration.Thus the Skull probe becomes useful.The other races can get something similar.
2.)The Strategic point can give the random upgrades.But I recommend that the Relics either give more powerful versions of the weapons or the heavier stuff.
3.)No HQ can be achieved I think,if you set the ''extermination'' or the ''take and hold'' winning condition.I remeber in the RAGE mod they ahve a custom win condition without the need of an HQ?


#3 Gambit

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 09:41 PM

Upon start of the skirmish, player would be offered a choice of what unit (emphasis on single unit) he would like to control. The game mode would use only infantry and heavy infantry, no vehicles or other relic units.

Perfectly doable. :thumbsupcool:

 

This is the only unit player has and controls, so there is no base building, domain expansion or army creation, just one unit.

Perfectly doable. :thumbsupcool:
 

1. STRATEGIC POINT -  heavy weapon load out changes
Example: Player in our imaginary skirmish takes his first SP with his squad of tactical marines and it instantly receives, lets say, plasma guns, or heavy bolters. Every time player captures a SP weapon load out changes, so if the squad first got plasma guns, there is chance it will receive again plasma guns as weapon upgrade given that weapon upgrade would be random, but it would also have a chance to get either heavy bolters, rocket launchers or flamers.

Perfectly doable. :thumbsupcool:

 

I would be interested to hear would it be possible to upgrade the whole squad with heavy weapons instead of only standard 4 marines?

Of course!

 

2. CRITICAL LOCATION – squad receives one ability out of three possible. One squad can have three abilities at any given time. Squad has chance to receive any ability which belongs to the race squad belongs to, in case here, tactical squad could receive any ability found within SM race, such as Word of the Emperor, Orbital strike and etc.

Perfectly doable. :thumbsupcool:

 

Problem I can see currently is the issue of race HQ. I would presume no skirmish can start without present hq but that creates the issue of it being attractive as a target to enemy given its stationary nature.
I would like to know is it possible to remove HQ from the map completely.

Definitely!

This can also be the place where you choose one of your squads if you want.

Whatever you like.

 

 

I see only 2 problems:

 

1] Gameplay value would be "poor" without additional "tricks"... For example if you see that your squad is loosing, you would retreat. And that's it. The idea is excellent of course!! I am only saying that it requires some more refinement.

This Thud said: "Based on what you cap, you get X,Y,Z attribs or buildable heroes?",... Is a good option, but we must first decide a more concrete "chess" gameplay :twisted:

And these brother Kekoulis said:

" Skull probe is not useless.I suggest having either the Critical Point or the Relic give to the squad that captures it infiltration.Thus the Skull probe becomes useful.The other races can get something similar", and "The Strategic point can give the random upgrades.But I recommend that the Relics either give more powerful versions of the weapons or the heavier stuff.",... are Definitely towards the right direction :thumbsuphappy:
 

2] AI will perform poorly. The only solution is to tinker with the SCaR/AI, and:

- Have the SCaR spawn a specific dummy squad.

- Have the AI count for that squad ON INIT, so that to enter Kill-Team mode.

- ... And l will have to code the AI tactic of each specific squad + the CORE AI plans, to make it work well with an AI opponent.

DOABLE.

 

As for this brother Kek said:

No HQ can be achieved I think,if you set the ''extermination'' or the ''take and hold'' winning condition.I remeber in the RAGE mod they ahve a custom win condition without the need of an HQ?

Well, we can achieve ANYTHING!!! This will not be a problem.

In fact brothers, I am positive we can make this happen FLAWLESSLY.

I can even go so far as asking brother Evil Isador for an INITIAL UI screen for the Unit selection :twisted:

 

That being said, we can accomplish whatever you want.

The only matter is... TIME!!!

 

If thud takes over the AI plan part, I can take over the SCaR coding :grad:

But I cannot do both ! ... Unless you want to leave the AI support for later.

 

---------------------------------------

 

Anyway, I will need a good overall design for this to motivate me. :p


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#4 Roderick

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 10:14 PM

My two cents, I see extremely necessary to use the "blockable" LOS weapons attributes instead those of the vanilla DOW, as the terrain is something you want to use in your favor.

 

How long is it expected to last a game? The squads will use the durability of the standard game or will be tweaked? What are the balance, pros and cons when you choose one or other kind of squad? I assume melee ones are in disadvantage or are they considered?

 

Is the gameplay thought for the 9 vanilla ones or should be extended to other races mods?

 

I am assuming you control a squad, not a single unit as a moba hero or as a Battle Royale... right?


Edited by Roderick, 29 August 2018 - 10:21 PM.


#5 ZmajOgnjeniVuk

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 08:01 AM

 @Gambit
 

Perfectly doable
Perfectly doable
Perfectly doable
Of course
Perfectly doable
Definitely

 

Broher Gambit, this is a sweet music to my ears :D


 

This can also be the place where you choose one of your squads if you want.

Whatever you like.

 

 

But then, HQ would need to be present on the map, correct?
 

 

 

Gameplay value would be "poor" without additional "tricks"... For example if you see that your squad is loosing, you would retreat. And that's it. The idea is excellent of course!! I am only saying that it requires some more refinement.

 

This Thud said: "Based on what you cap, you get X,Y,Z attribs or buildable heroes?",... Is a good option, but we must first decide a more concrete "chess" gameplay  :twisted:

And these brother Kekoulis said:

" Skull probe is not useless.I suggest having either the Critical Point or the Relic give to the squad that captures it infiltration.Thus the Skull probe becomes useful.The other races can get something similar", and "The Strategic point can give the random upgrades.But I recommend that the Relics either give more powerful versions of the weapons or the heavier stuff.",... are Definitely towards the right direction  :thumbsuphappy:

 

 

 

I agree. I thought about this a bit this morning and maybe we could spice things up by using weather victory conditions. We could use them either as they are or tweak them a bit. For example, we could introduce two types of storms, snow storm and sand storm, both of them drastically shorten your sight and thus range while individually, snow storm slows down your squad and sand storm deals small amount of damage per second.
We can use the weapons trick Kekoulis suggested and addition of a single hero after Relic is captured, maybe we could divided weapons into tiers, similar to what was done in DoW 2, we dont change weapon outlook, we change their stats so for example after taking a SP, squad could get standard heavy bolters or unique heavy bolters which have more damage and slow down enemies, for example.

Could we give squads ability to spawn turrets, that is, one turret with limited time on the map which would help out during the combat? Maybe this could be hard coded ability for every squad so it does not belong to those three abilities which change by taking CL. 
Also, I think things could be spiced up by having deep strike ability for all units, also hard coded, with certain recharge time, maybe thirty seconds. Could be used for ambushes. For example, you captured a SP and have moved on, you are on the other side of the map when you notice Ork squad going for your SP, you deep strike and attack it all of a sudden. Deep strike would have infinite range, or at least big enough to cover the entire map. I think this ability would shine in team vs team gameplay.  

Could we add pickups for the map, health, power, requisition, and similar stuff? 

I have been thinking on another idea for some time, unrelated to this, but what do you think of introducing, besides HP and morale, another value to every squad, ammo? Ammo would visually be represented by red bar beneath morale while in game, it would actually be measured as time spent in range combat, so one second of range combat is one ammo. Lets say Space Marine squad has 100 ammo, this would mean they can engage in range combat for 100 seconds. After ammo is expended, they would have only their melee attack. I was planing to use this in the regular game as I think it would give more depth to the strategic element of DoW, but it could be used here as well I guess.
One thing that I see as problematic is the issue would the game be able to differentiate between range combat and melee combat? I presume it can but thought to ask, because it would be contra-productive to have ammo thats being wasted while squad is locked in close combat.   
 

AI will perform poorly. The only solution is to tinker with the SCaR/AI, and:

- Have the SCaR spawn a specific dummy squad.

- Have the AI count for that squad ON INIT, so that to enter Kill-Team mode.

- ... And l will have to code the AI tactic of each specific squad + the CORE AI plans, to make it work well with an AI opponent.

DOABLE

 

I think I got what you are saying, if it makes it easier for you, after talking with Kekoulis last night, I think this project could benefit from being turned into a proper mod. I would presume some things would be easier to do that way?
 

 

I can even go so far as asking brother Evil Isador for an INITIAL UI screen for the Unit selection  :twisted:

 

Sure, why not, and invite him to this thread, if you dont mind, maybe he would like to join the discussion and have some suggestions of his own. Ah yes, that "

 

 


The only matter is... TIME!!!

 

 

 

Ah yes, that "good" friend of ours :D 

 

If thud takes over the AI plan part, I can take over the SCaR coding  :grad:

But I cannot do both ! ... Unless you want to leave the AI support for later.

 

 

I would like to finish everything before we publish it, and if Thud can takeover the AI part that would be great, however, I know you guys have bunch of other obligations, but at least we started and I am really satisfied with the initial response and suggestions.  

 

Anyway, I will need a good overall design for this to motivate me.  :p

 

 

We shall try brother Gambit to meet your high standards :D 

@Roderick 
 

My two cents, I see extremely necessary to use the "blockable" LOS weapons attributes instead those of the vanilla DOW, as the terrain is something you want to use in your favor.

 

I agree, it would add another dimension to the game, but I presume that then the project would have to become a proper mod, which is fine by me? 

 

How long is it expected to last a game? The squads will use the durability of the standard game or will be tweaked? What are the balance, pros and cons when you choose one or other kind of squad? I assume melee ones are in disadvantage or are they considered?

 

 

Well, I saw this as a fast paced gameplay mod, I guess it would depend from players and maps, especially maps given that 8 player maps would be large battle ground for single squad armies. Original idea is that squads would use their normal stats, however, that can change during development. Balance, pros and cons, well given that one squad can access all abilities of its race, balance is somewhat of an issue as you can have a Guardian squad with an eldritch storm, but I would say this is what would make game play interesting, you dont really know what your enemy has at their disposal so you cant just rush them and take them out just like that. Benefits of choosing different squads, that is a good question, I guess, will need to think about it, but speed, durability, what combat suits you (melee or range) are some things to take into consideration.
 

Is the gameplay thought for the 9 vanilla ones or should be extended to other races mods?

 

Again, planned this for the 9 vanilla races, but Kekoulis told me there would be no issues in adding other races, so if we can, we should add other races too.
 

I am assuming you control a squad, not a single unit as a moba hero or as a Battle Royale... right?

 

Yeah, player controls a squad, I usually use squad and unit as synonyms. 


Edited by ZmajOgnjeniVuk, 30 August 2018 - 08:02 AM.


#6 Gambit

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 08:31 AM

Broher Gambit, this is a sweet music to my ears :D

Man, your idea is excellent, and with SCaR we can achieve almost anything!

 

But then, HQ would need to be present on the map, correct?

Yes, but ONLY for the initial squad choice. It will play no other reason whatsoever.

OR, we can have NO HQ at all! And choose from a button/entity/menu/whatever. Our choice, depending on agreed design.

I am just saying that anything is possible...

 

 

About all those Design Suggestions

Now we are talking!

All those ideas will definitely give some strategic boost to this new Game Mode of yours!

I will not go in detailed on this, but I think I am convinced :cool:

 

 

I think this project could benefit from being turned into a proper mod. I would presume some things would be easier to do that way?

Well, in fact it would be BETTER if it were a Unification Gaming mode!

Reason: In Unification, I have re-coded the SCaR folder. ALMOST EVERYTHING is now written from scratch. It is more efficient, optimised, error-free, and most important, it is modular !!!

Which means that if you want to support a new race/wincondition/gamemode, Unification is the ONLY way.

(That, or you can copy my WHOLE SCaR folder in the new mod :lol:)

But what about adding support for more races?

 

So the choice is clearly Unification  :aarambo:

 

 

I would like to finish everything before we publish it, and if Thud can takeover the AI part that would be great, however, I know you guys have bunch of other obligations, but at least we started and I am really satisfied with the initial response and suggestions.

That's the problem!!

Chaos Daemons, Daemonhuntes, and soon Alien Hunters - Deathwath.... Just to name some of the mods that are AWAITING FOR ME!

 

 

We shall try brother Gambit to meet your high standards :D

Come on man!! I am just another guy...

See, there are so many projects on the line, and so many tasks, that prioritising is most of the times ... messy.

Now if I were to get "excited" about something... THERE YOU HAVE IT!!

 

At the moment, I got ALL I NEEDED from brother Kekoulis, and the DA are only waiting for a couple last voices - Thud will provide them within this week!

So I am a bit... "free".

And I think I am excited.

So I will get it started. :grad:

DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING, I will only start it, and send it to you to see how it goes.

 

Do you want an initial HQ? Or button (simple for now, brother Evil Isador will not be around for a while!) for the initial squads?


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#7 Roderick

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 10:48 AM

First a try with the 9 races because adding the rest would be a little nightmarish. Also some races benefit more of the quantity vs quality or need attachments to become something good on their own while they perform well in a multiple squad scenario. I think that the squads should be made ad hoc to this game, following a little the expected balance of the kill-team table top, or at least consider it as a foundation to know what kind of weapon upgrades or troops can be in a squad.

 

If the squads are ad hoc, maaybe there's a chance to alter them to include different types of units in the squad as in a kill-team together with the upgrades. The UI should be refitted to permit all the variations. I am thinking of the Thousand Sons style, where the upgrades are in the 3x4 grid instead of the 2x4 grid would be interesting to have. I guess FreeUI could handle this game mode that way or is it impossible?


Edited by Roderick, 30 August 2018 - 10:50 AM.


#8 ZmajOgnjeniVuk

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 10:49 AM

@Gambit

Im at work currently so I will be able to respond in more detail when I get back home, however, regarding the HQ issue, go with the button, lets remove HQ completely.  


Edited by ZmajOgnjeniVuk, 30 August 2018 - 10:50 AM.


#9 Gambit

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 11:17 AM

First a try with the 9 races because adding the rest would be a little nightmarish.

Of course.

As I said, the modular approach will help us add more races by simply filling in the necessary info for each :thumbsuphappy:
 

Also some races benefit more of the quantity vs quality or need attachments to become something good on their own while they perform well in a multiple squad scenario. I think that the squads should be made ad hoc to this game, following a little the expected balance of the kill-team table top, or at least consider it as a foundation to know what kind of weapon upgrades or troops can be in a squad........

Excellent design notifications!

 

 

 

...regarding the HQ issue, go with the button, lets remove HQ completely...

Yeap, I thought so and it is ready!! As I have the code now:

1] You start with NOTHING. No HQ, no Builder. All resources and caps set to 0. ONCE ALL PLAYERS have chosen their squads, the resources can be set to whatever we want. For now I have it to 100/100 - and 1000/1000 for high resources game.

2] You only see a button (for now, soon 3!) and once pressed, you get to choose that team.

3] If a player has already chose a team, and you are thinking about yours, HIS squad belong to the WORLD, so neither he NOR the AI can control it. This way, the game starts when ALL player have chosen squads :twisted:

 

Dammit, it took me 3 hours to do it, I thought it was 30 minutes stuff :umad:

But OH BOY DO I LIKE IT :xcahik_: :xcahik_: :xcahik_:

 

Boys, for now I will deal with the mechanics (I must PERFECT the code), so the overall gameplay will be something I will be engaging a bit later.

Design-wise, we can add whatever whenever, so NP.


Edited by Gambit, 30 August 2018 - 11:17 AM.

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#10 Leemanruss

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 12:20 PM

Brother Gambit with ur skills and determination nothing can stand in ur way  this is ur field ...i want to ask this before from u for the sake of replayability and creativity  non of the modders have try to make such  mod (i cant remember but maybe cylarn UA dev made an attempt ) A LAST STAND MOD map waves of enemies attacking heroes  and leveling up plz do that brother .u have the map the heroes from each race and UR skills at coding and scar .



#11 ZmajOgnjeniVuk

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 01:29 PM

@Gambit
 

Man, your idea is excellent, and with SCaR we can achieve almost anything!

 

Thanks man, I appreciate the support :) 

 

About all those Design Suggestions

Now we are talking!

All those ideas will definitely give some strategic boost to this new Game Mode of yours!

I will not go in detailed on this, but I think I am convinced  :cool:

 

Glad to hear that :D After reading comments by brother Roderick I have another design suggestion how to further spice things up. Would it be possible to let player choose members of his squad from existing units within the race, excluding heroes and vehicles? Lets go with SM for example. After map loads, game pauses and player sees a selection window where all infantry and heavy infantry units of SM are available. Lets agree that squad cap is always and for all races, 10 squad members. Is it possible to let player make his own squad from lets say, 1 servo skull, 2 terminators, 2 scouts, 4 tactical marines and 1 assault marine? 
Im sure you see how much possibility this feature has. I mean, player could go with 10 terminators in a squad, or 10 servo skulls if he wants to troll around the map :D but otherwise, mixed team of different squad members could make this much more interesting. 
One thing that could be an issue is the issue of unit behavior, for example, if you have team of 5 tactical marines and 5 assault marines, how would that be played exactly. AM jump ability, would it cause an issue of stability or for example lets imagine player makes squad of 5 fire warriors, 4 stealth suits  and 1 broadside. How would broadside ability to entrench interact with rest of the squad? 
I would appreciate your thought on this Gambit. I think this feature, if possible to implement might be a big crowd pleaser :)  and give more spice to the gameplay.
 

Well, in fact it would be BETTER if it were a Unification Gaming mode!

Reason: In Unification, I have re-coded the SCaR folder. ALMOST EVERYTHING is now written from scratch. It is more efficient, optimised, error-free, and most important, it is modular !!!

Which means that if you want to support a new race/wincondition/gamemode, Unification is the ONLY way.

(That, or you can copy my WHOLE SCaR folder in the new mod  :lol:)

But what about adding support for more races?

 

So the choice is clearly Unification   :aarambo:

 


Well I mean clearly :D so yeah, lets go with Unification. I presume we would turn KT into a victory condition or would it be a mod downloaded with UNI?
 

That's the problem!!

Chaos Daemons, Daemonhuntes, and soon Alien Hunters - Deathwath.... Just to name some of the mods that are AWAITING FOR ME!

 

I understand mate, and I dont want to rush you or am I in rush, we proceed as we can in our own pace.
 

At the moment, I got ALL I NEEDED from brother Kekoulis, and the DA are only waiting for a couple last voices - Thud will provide them within this week!

So I am a bit... "free".

And I think I am excited.

So I will get it started.  :grad:

DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING, I will only start it, and send it to you to see how it goes.

 

 

Alright people, smarten up, we are going live :D praise the Emperor 

@Roderick
 

If the squads are ad hoc, maaybe there's a chance to alter them to include different types of units in the squad as in a kill-team together with the upgrades. The UI should be refitted to permit all the variations. I am thinking of the Thousand Sons style, where the upgrades are in the 3x4 grid instead of the 2x4 grid would be interesting to have. I guess FreeUI could handle this game mode that way or is it impossible?

 

Roderick read above my question for Gambit regarding player creating his own squad. Did you mean something like that or would it be random squad. I like your idea for 3x4 grid, would give more diversity when it comes to the weapons, but lets see what the rest of the guys think.

@Gambit 
 

1] You start with NOTHING. No HQ, no Builder. All resources and caps set to 0. ONCE ALL PLAYERS have chosen their squads, the resources can be set to whatever we want. For now I have it to 100/100 - and 1000/1000 for high resources game.

2] You only see a button (for now, soon 3!) and once pressed, you get to choose that team.

3] If a player has already chose a team, and you are thinking about yours, HIS squad belong to the WORLD, so neither he NOR the AI can control it. This way, the game starts when ALL player have chosen squads  :twisted:

 

I approve of this :D I like the starting resources, given that player starts with one full squad, there is no need for something more. By the time squad takes first casualties, he should at least have captured several SP and took some resources from them. I like how you worked out system for all players to start at the same time. It goes hand in hand with my suggestion for custom made squads by player.
 

Dammit, it took me 3 hours to do it, I thought it was 30 minutes stuff  :umad:

But OH BOY DO I LIKE IT  :xcahik_:  :xcahik_:  :xcahik_:

 

Boys, for now I will deal with the mechanics (I must PERFECT the code), so the overall gameplay will be something I will be engaging a bit later.

Design-wise, we can add whatever whenever, so NP.

 

:D excellent news man, and regarding overall gameplay, sure, take your time, I have feeling we have moved a light year from last night. It has not been even 24 hours since we are talking about this :D excellent progress. 



#12 Gambit

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 01:38 PM

...i want to ask this before from u for the sake of replayability and creativity  non of the modders have try to make such  mod (i cant remember but maybe cylarn UA dev made an attempt ) A LAST STAND MOD map waves of enemies attacking heroes  and leveling up plz do that brother .u have the map the heroes from each race and UR skills at coding and scar .

The nine vanilla heroes have extensive wargear. And the same is true for some race mods :twisted:

So yeah, a LAST STAND mod is quite easy for me to do. There are issues of levelling up your character of course, and how you should maintain your wargear from game to game.

But I can fix that :twisted:

 

Bottomlike, I can make it.  :grad:

But... WE ALREADY HAVE Retribution!!!

This is the reason I prefer brother ZmajOgnjeniVuk's idea.

It is KINDA Last Stand, AND we can make it whatever we want!

I think it is MUCH better if we were to invest out time in the Kill-Team Game Mode.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Glad to hear that :D After reading comments by brother Roderick I have another design suggestion how to further spice things up. Would it be possible to let player choose members of his squad from existing units within the race, excluding heroes and vehicles? Lets go with SM for example. After map loads, game pauses and player sees a selection window where all infantry and heavy infantry units of SM are available. Lets agree that squad cap is always and for all races, 10 squad members. Is it possible to let player make his own squad from lets say, 1 servo skull, 2 terminators, 2 scouts, 4 tactical marines and 1 assault marine?

Difficult...

Doable but complex.

Limitation 1: Each squad can have up to 5 different members (1 regular + 4 leaders). Not an actual limitation of course, 5 is enough.

Limitation 2: I do not know how to add the 2nd-4th leaders in a squad! The command adds only the 1st... But I will check.

 

 

Well I mean clearly :D so yeah, lets go with Unification. I presume we would turn KT into a victory condition or would it be a mod downloaded with UNI?

Yeah, it will be an EXCLUSIVE win condition in Unification. :grad:

Do you approve man? After all it is your idea!

You will be able to add more goodies of course, like weather etc. But NO OTHER win wincondition (no Assassinate, DestroyHQ, etc. ). And the game will automatically start with the Squad choice (it is already so!)

 

 

Progress

OK so I made the code perfect + you have to choose amongst 3 squads + and (so far) you lose only if yours is killed, you will if you kill your enemy's :party:

I need to make it modular now.

And then, we proceed with the specifics and strategical additions.

I will upload it tonight.

NOTE: The AI performs adequately :thumbsuphappy:


-In search of Papasmurf...

#13 Roderick

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 03:18 PM

Given it is going smoothly, do a first version avoiding the brainstorming above and from there and what you've been able to discover or test, then the improvement can be in such a way or another.



#14 ZmajOgnjeniVuk

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 03:19 PM

Difficult...

Doable but complex.

Limitation 1: Each squad can have up to 5 different members (1 regular + 4 leaders). Not an actual limitation of course, 5 is enough.

Limitation 2: I do not know how to add the 2nd-4th leaders in a squad! The command adds only the 1st... But I will check.

 

You think 10 man squads are too big? And if we were to go with 10 member squads, I presume the ratio would be 6 regular members + 4 leaders?
What do you think, I like this idea, but would like to hear do you think is it worth investing time and effort?

Yeah, it will be an EXCLUSIVE win condition in Unification.  :grad:

Do you approve man? After all it is your idea!

You will be able to add more goodies of course, like weather etc. But NO OTHER win wincondition (no Assassinate, DestroyHQ, etc. ). And the game will automatically start with the Squad choice (it is already so!)

 

Sure thing, we shall go with Unification, however, I wanted to ask could we make this into a mod for itself, compatible with UNI, instead of just win condition in UNI because I was hoping we could, for example, implement weather mechanics differently then it is originally implemented as a win condition. I mean, can we implement weather within Kill Team win condition besides the already existing weather win condition in UNI. If we can pack more things into the KT itself (such as custom adapted weather condition, leveling up - so all of it is already in and player needs to choose only KT win condition to experience all of it) we can make it a Unification win condition. 

Progress

OK so I made the code perfect + you have to choose amongst 3 squads + and (so far) you lose only if yours is killed, you will if you kill your enemy's  :party:

I need to make it modular now.

And then, we proceed with the specifics and strategical additions.

I will upload it tonight.

NOTE: The AI performs adequately  :thumbsuphappy:

 

Choose among 3 squads? Can you clarify...squad killed = defeat, squad remains the last = victory, excellent, just what I wanted :) 
Where will you upload it exactly, I would like to see what has been done for myself if possible and I would like to keep this between us for now, until everything is done. 
Glad to hear AI has no issues :) 
Excellent work man  :thumbsuphappy:


#15 Gambit

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 07:29 PM

You think 10 man squads are too big? And if we were to go with 10 member squads, I presume the ratio would be 6 regular members + 4 leaders?
What do you think, I like this idea, but would like to hear do you think is it worth investing time and effort?

NO, NO! I was just saying that we can have teams with ONLY 5 different types of members!

The sizes (how many members) can be as high as we want for ALL members :twisted:

 

Sure thing, we shall go with Unification, however, I wanted to ask could we make this into a mod for itself, compatible with UNI, instead of just win condition in UNI because I was hoping we could, for example, implement weather mechanics differently then it is originally implemented as a win condition. I mean, can we implement weather within Kill Team win condition besides the already existing weather win condition in UNI. If we can pack more things into the KT itself (such as custom adapted weather condition, leveling up - so all of it is already in and player needs to choose only KT win condition to experience all of it) we can make it a Unification win condition.

Well, all other winconditions ALREADY EXIST, and they are already compatible with Kill-Team game mode.

If we need to code something different, it is STILL doable :grad:

But yes, of course, you will be able to use this OUTSIDE Unification if you want.

I can take care of that as well, but for now please let's use Unification.

 

Choose among 3 squads? Can you clarify...squad killed = defeat, squad remains the last = victory, excellent, just what I wanted :)

Yes, exactly.

You initially see 3 icons, with the available squad choices (I have added support for n squads, not only 3).

When ALL players choose one, the game starts. Until then, they can only wait. The AI players randomly choose one squad from the first sec. :twisted:

And if you loose your squad, you lose the game!

 

Glad to hear AI has no issues :)

Well, we WILL have to boost its performance!

Leave that to me, AE/SCaR and AI is where I excel :twisted:

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

Where will you upload it exactly, ...

Here!!! Well, it is ready: KILL-TEAM GAME MODE V0.1

Just unrar, copy into your SS installation and OVERWRITE, and start the Unification Bugfix Mod.

Then, simply choose the Kill-Team Game Mode (do not add Chage Players and restricted tiering yet)

MAP: Skirmish only

Race: Space Marines only. Support for more EXTRA EASY (Modular)!

 

...I would like to see what has been done for myself if possible and I would like to keep this between us for now, until everything is done.

I will PM you with the RAR PASSWORD.

And I will add anyone involved :twisted:


-In search of Papasmurf...

#16 Leemanruss

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 09:10 PM

 after testing ty brother gambit for ur mod  plz consider this ......u still have a long walk its has the last stand idea ...ai is weak only capture SP and sleep ..no wargear.. no lvl up...no instant action . after kill the squad gameover thats it brother !!!

 

*need improvement of ai 

*need more factions 

*need wargear 

*leveling up (heroes)

*include more hero choice each faction (gorgutz ...necron lord .......etc)

*include infinite enemy spawns (waves like survival mod) each level  (wind condition) 

* respawn mechanics for hero or kill team squad 

*more weapon choice 


Edited by Leemanruss, 30 August 2018 - 09:10 PM.


#17 Kekoulis

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 09:17 PM

Well,the Kill-Team will be like a Last Stand.From my looks,even better!


Edited by Kekoulis, 30 August 2018 - 09:43 PM.

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#18 Gambit

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 09:39 PM

 after testing ty brother gambit for ur mod  plz consider this ......u still have a long walk its has the last stand idea ...ai is weak only capture SP and sleep ..no wargear.. no lvl up...no instant action . after kill the squad gameover thats it brother !!!

Yes, that is the basis! We needed something to work upon :thumbsuphappy:

 

*need more factions

It is VERY easy to add one!

Just go to Data\scar\World_Race_GeneralStats.scar file, and add fill the

KTGM = {icon = {"","",""}, squad = {"","",""}, loadout = {0,0,0}, name = {"","",""}, description = {"","",""}},

...entry of the race you want.

For example, see in space_marines. It is:

KTGM = {icon = {"space_marine_icons/scoutmarine_icon","space_marine_icons/tacticalmarine_icon","space_marine_icons/assaultmarine_icon"}, squad = {"space_marine_squad_scout","space_marine_squad_tactical","space_marine_squad_assault"}, loadout = {4,2,2}, name = {"Scout Marines","Tactical Marines","Assault Marines"}, description = {"Get a squad of Scout Marines.","Get a squad of Tactical Marines.","Get a squad of Assault Marines."}},

:twisted:

 

*need wargear , ETC.....

WIP!

 

*leveling up (heroes)

Already supported, you can choose the wincondition!

 

*include infinite enemy spawns (waves like survival mod) each level  (wind condition)

Wait, this is not exactly a Last Stand...

Bt read below, my answer to brother Kekoulis:

 

Well,the Kill-Team will be like a Last Stand.From my looks,even better1!

Brother Kek, we can have a Last Stand version (a sub-wincon if you want) with this!!

Where ALL squads are allies, and we spawn waves that the players should kill :twisted:

But for now, it is squads VS squads, this is what I was told to code, ... right???


Edited by Gambit, 30 August 2018 - 09:40 PM.

-In search of Papasmurf...

#19 Unsociallobster

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 09:42 PM

Oh man... this is looking good! 



#20 Kekoulis

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 09:43 PM

Brother Gambit,this is what I meant. ;)


Edited by Kekoulis, 30 August 2018 - 09:44 PM.

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