105 replies to this topic

[Gambit]

Well, to be honest, I LOVE DoW2 Last Stand. I think I am ALL COVERED with the DoW2 version, and feel no actual need to code it "identically" into DoW1.

> ON THE OTHER HAND, Last Stand combined with KILL-TEAM would be excellent.!!! So you do not get a Hero, but the same choice of the 3 squads in Kill-Team, and after each wave you get some resources to upgrade your squads.

Will only need ONE WEEK to do after that standard Kill-Team is done, it will be extremely easy to do - will only need a modified map as a start!

 

I can have a sample today!!! Dammit, there are so many INTERESTING ideas on the table, I feel torn apart!

Hold on, I will try it ...

 

 

DotA, I am not so fan. I have EXTENSIVELY played Warcraft III in the past, and didn't like the DotA mod. And then the mod involved into a game, and I kept the same perspective

As brother Fuggles said, it is easily done. The AE and the balancing is the complex part, NOT the coding. The same with the Kill-Team mode we have now.

 

So, re-calculating priorities:

1] Kill-Team.

2] Kill-Team Last stand (will have a draft sample SOON)

3] Space Hulk

 

Deal?

[gnomodog]

It's a perfect plan for the future. That's what I really missed.

[Gambit]

Ahem... I am at 85% coding 2]

You will soon have both 1] and 2] guys.

Then, it will be race support pending - for now, it is only Space Marines and Eldar - and still, NOT balanced as you have guessed. Balance and squad formation I leave to you guys.

[Gambit]

Kill-Team Last Stand v0.1 READY! (not released yet)

 

Highlights:

1] You get one squad choice (out of 3, per race) to start with. Just like the normal Kill Team.
2] We will have to make the squads UBER! as you know, we can have up to FIVE types of members, and multiple upgrades !!! So it far surpasses "one commander", in terms of configurability.
3] After each wave, you get resources to upgrade your squad. You must choose wisely!
4] At the end, you will see how many kills you have, and (SCaR allowing), I think I CAN CREATE a levelling/hero system. I am thinking "unlocking" tricks!
5] You will be able to have AI players, not only human ones!
6] The players can be as many as 7! Not only 3... And the same for how many spawning points, number of waves, rewards, etc!

I mean, DoW2 already has Commander Last Stand, why not we have SQUAD last stand?
And of course... IT CAN HAVE A COMMANDER IN IT!!!!!

What do you think?

 

For now, I am already testing it at (4p) Biffy's Peril map And it is AWESOME!

Do not get involved yet, I will have to perfect the code first. Maps come later.

Hold on.

[Kekoulis]

I really like the idea man!To be honest,better than copying DOW 2 to the latter.

[fuggles]

Further to my pm, yes there are scar commands that share Los. If your sbps is idle, check for enemies in a radius and if nearby share their Los with you. I was working on a scar map where a family had to escape a city being invaded.

For toggles, something like fof which increases speed at the expense of accuracy and maybe reduces Los as aiming. With hardpoints management you could use a toggle to trigger an aimed version of your weapon which has a reload timer but more accuracy or damage.

You could use morale as ammo so when broken you have to get somewhere, or get someone to them. Or use energy/req as ammo.

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

@Gambit

Very good.

 

 

Ah, the DS mechanic is an excellent idea!

I will implement it. Gimme some time, I need a couple of days off first, then I will re-engage 

(I need to work on IDH, and make sure Survival no longer gives desyncs in MP)

No problem, take as long as you need, the progress made in the last few days alone was great Also, Gambit, lets stop here for a while with providing access to KT to new people. As far as I know all who follow the thread have access to KT versions and I think for now that is enough. 

@Roderick

 

Well, now you can consider some Last Stand to draw or annoy people from Dow2 base and finally create a DOTA-like to annoy people of DOW3 

bringing back DoW 1 from a completely unexpected corner  

@Fuggles

Easily done, creeps are no drama to create. Exp could be tricky.

I have some ideas for the creeps but we can talk about that bridge when we get there.

@Gambit

Well, to be honest, I LOVE DoW2 Last Stand. I think I am ALL COVERED with the DoW2 version, and feel no actual need to code it "identically" into DoW1.

> ON THE OTHER HAND, Last Stand combined with KILL-TEAM would be excellent.!!! So you do not get a Hero, but the same choice of the 3 squads in Kill-Team, and after each wave you get some resources to upgrade your squads. 

 

Will only need ONE WEEK to do after that standard Kill-Team is done, it will be extremely easy to do - will only need a modified map as a start!

 

 

I can have a sample today!!! Dammit, there are so many INTERESTING ideas on the table, I feel torn apart!

Hold on, I will try it ...

Great

 

DotA, I am not so fan. I have EXTENSIVELY played Warcraft III in the past, and didn't like the DotA mod. And then the mod involved into a game, and I kept the same perspective 

As brother Fuggles said, it is easily done. The AE and the balancing is the complex part, NOT the coding. The same with the Kill-Team mode we have now.

 

So, re-calculating priorities:

1] Kill-Team.

2] Kill-Team Last stand   (will have a draft sample SOON)

3] Space Hulk

 

Deal?

Deal as far as Im concerned. I like the LS version with squads but lets first finish one thing and then move to the next. Of course, all suggestions regarding both LS and SH are welcome at the thread.
 

 

Ahem... I am at 85% coding 2] 

You will soon have both 1] and 2] guys.

Then, it will be race support pending - for now, it is only Space Marines and Eldar - and still, NOT balanced as you have guessed. Balance and squad formation I leave to you guys.

Well, so much for that plan no plan survives the first contact with the enemy, especially if the enemy is yourself Glad to hear you are progressing and regarding the issue of balance, I would like to point out that given there is a lot of potential for random stuff happening, from players choice of weapons for his squad to abilities squad will receive once it takes CL, so imbalance might be, in a way, considered a feature of the mode itself. Imagine if you lead a squad of Eldar with trio of Eldar most useless abilities against squad of SM with Word of the Emperor, Smite and Battlecry. I wouldn't worry to much about balance, because with features like random assignment of abilities to units you will always get imbalances. I guess point would be to use what you have, adapt your way of play to what you have, or simply move across the map, taking points until you get something better. 
Gambit a point I wanted to raise with you. If I understood you correctly, by the way which you envisioned, squad takes a SP for 25 req/power and player can upgrade his squad with weapons he wants. I am interested is it possible to give player abilities to exchange weapons in the squad even after he chooses all possible upgrades, in essence making heavy weapon loadout more fluid and flexible? Maybe we could make this happen only under certain condition, like player can change weapons only if squad is nearby CL or something like that. 
 

Kill-Team Last Stand v0.1 READY! (not released yet)

 

Highlights:

1] You get one squad choice (out of 3, per race) to start with. Just like the normal Kill Team.
2] We will have to make the squads UBER! as you know, we can have up to FIVE types of members, and multiple upgrades !!! So it far surpasses "one commander", in terms of configurability.
3] After each wave, you get resources to upgrade your squad. You must choose wisely!
4] At the end, you will see how many kills you have, and (SCaR allowing), I think I CAN CREATE a levelling/hero system. I am thinking "unlocking" tricks!
5] You will be able to have AI players, not only human ones!
6] The players can be as many as 7! Not only 3... And the same for how many spawning points, number of waves, rewards, etc!

I mean, DoW2 already has Commander Last Stand, why not we have SQUAD last stand?
And of course... IT CAN HAVE A COMMANDER IN IT!!!!!

What do you think?

 

For now, I am already testing it at (4p) Biffy's Peril map  And it is AWESOME!

Do not get involved yet, I will have to perfect the code first. Maps come later.

Hold on.

I let out a small giggle filled with madness when I read this Sounds EXCELLENT!!! Kudos Gambit I better get started on that LSKT custom map I would need some of your knowledge on DoW2 Last Stand map, I presume, heroes are at a center arena and waves spawn all around them and then rush the center which heroes need to defend and survive?
 

2] We will have to make the squads UBER! as you know, we can have up to FIVE types of members, and multiple upgrades !!! So it far surpasses "one commander", in terms of configurability.

So, from this I presume, custom squads are a go and yeah, I guess making squads UBER makes sense in this context. 

Edited by ZmajOgnjeniVuk, 05 September 2018 - 07:19 PM.

[Gambit]

Gambit, lets stop here for a while with providing access to KT to new people. As far as I know all who follow the thread have access to KT versions and I think for now that is enough.

Got it!

 

Glad to hear you are progressing and regarding the issue of balance, I would like to point out that given there is a lot of potential for random stuff happening, from players choice of weapons for his squad to abilities squad will receive once it takes CL, so imbalance might be, in a way, considered a feature of the mode itself.

That is why I mostly do the coding.

I take care of a SOLID + strong + modular base, first.

And then YOU will decide wave composition, squad members, abilities, etc! Fear not, when the code is OK, I will ask you input and of course any change you need to be made.

 

Gambit a point I wanted to raise with you. If I understood you correctly, by the way which you envisioned, squad takes a SP for 25 req/power and player can upgrade his squad with weapons he wants. I am interested is it possible to give player abilities to exchange weapons in the squad even after he chooses all possible upgrades, in essence making heavy weapon loadout more fluid and flexible? Maybe we could make this happen only under certain condition, like player can change weapons only if squad is nearby CL or something like that.

 

I let out a small giggle filled with madness when I read this Sounds EXCELLENT!!! Kudos Gambit

Thanks man!

And let me say that the main code is DONE, and it plays AWSOME, even from this "draft" first beta!

I better get started on that LSKT custom map I would need some of your knowledge on DoW2 Last Stand map, I presume, heroes are at a center arena and waves spawn all around them and then rush the center which heroes need to defend and survive?

Soon!! Please give me a couple of days before starting, I will need to decide on ALL specifics needed on each map, so that you know exactly what to do.

 

So, from this I presume, custom squads are a go and yeah, I guess making squads UBER makes sense in this context.

Now, this you can do FROM NOW!!

I will need 3 space marines and 3 Eldar squads (for now), with WHATEVER composition you can think of.

Please include type, abilities, weapon upgrades, and ALL member list (and loadout for each member) per squad!

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

@Fuggles

 

Further to my pm, yes there are scar commands that share Los. If your sbps is idle, check for enemies in a radius and if nearby share their Los with you. I was working on a scar map where a family had to escape a city being invaded.

The idea sounds good, but what happens when enemies share their LOS with you. Is that when they are able to engage you in combat? As far as I understand, thats the point of LOS system.

 

For toggles, something like fof which increases speed at the expense of accuracy and maybe reduces Los as aiming. With hardpoints management you could use a toggle to trigger an aimed version of your weapon which has a reload timer but more accuracy or damage.

 

We could do this, might add more interesting spins on the gameplay. I like the toggled weapon option, really like it. I presume when it comes to the UI and actual gameplay, it would work akin like Scout cloak ability worked in the original DoW?
 

You could use morale as ammo so when broken you have to get somewhere, or get someone to them. Or use energy/req as ammo. 

 

I am not really keen on merging ammo and moral, however, your idea is good and can be used for something else I think. We just need to find something that naturally fits the parameters you pointed out. Maybe certain abilities could become unusable while squad is broken, or every time when squad is broken, it losses some of its heavy weapons so player needs to upgrade them again?
I would rather use time spent in ranged combat as ammo. That way it is divorced from HP or morale, and resources, and is not influenced by them. Is it possible to do this? a feature which "measures" time squads spend in range combat and removes time, second by second, from allotted amount of seconds. Once the amount is zero, the feature prevents squad from entering only range combat, until amount is replenished via "ammo supplies" or something similar.

@Gambit

You never responded to this
Gambit a point I wanted to raise with you. If I understood you correctly, by the way which you envisioned, squad takes a SP for 25 req/power and player can upgrade his squad with weapons he wants. I am interested is it possible to give player abilities to exchange weapons in the squad even after he chooses all possible upgrades, in essence making heavy weapon loadout more fluid and flexible? Maybe we could make this happen only under certain condition, like player can change weapons only if squad is nearby CL or something like that.
 

That is why I mostly do the coding.

I take care of a SOLID + strong + modular base, first.

And then YOU will decide wave composition, squad members, abilities, etc! Fear not, when the code is OK, I will ask you input and of course any change you need to be made.

Agreed, once you give green light for the code, then we will consider other features in the mode.
 

Soon!! Please give me a couple of days before starting, I will need to decide on ALL specifics needed on each map, so that you know exactly what to do.

Sure thing brother, when you are clear on all specifics we can talk here or in PM and start working on the map. 

 

Now, this you can do FROM NOW!!

I will need 3 space marines and 3 Eldar squads (for now), with WHATEVER composition you can think of.

Please include type, abilities, weapon upgrades, and ALL member list (and loadout for each member) per squad!

Im not sure I follow. 
This is how I understood development of this segment so far. One squad can have members belonging to 5 different types (no commanders/heroes). Player is able to choose members of his squad (this is where the existence of three starting squad kinda confuses me - why do we need option of three squads if player will be able to create his custom squad, I think we might had a misunderstanding here or Im not getting something). If you are asking me to list squads then I presume we are still in the creation process for the feature of custom squads? 

However,
SPACE MARINES:

Squad 1:                        Loadout                         Squad Abilities
Tactical                          Heavy Bolter                  Smite  

Tactical                           Flamer                          Weaken Resolve

Terminator                      H. Flamer                     Battlecry 

Scout                              Sniper

Scout                              Flamer

Scout                              Sniper          

Apothecary                     X
Terminator                      Assault cannon

Assault Terminator         X 
Assault Marine               X

Im unable now to finish the rest, but you take a look at this template and tell me if this is what you wanted. If yes, I will updated this message ASAP with two more SM squads and three pointy ears squad  

[Gambit]

Gambit a point I wanted to raise with you. If I understood you correctly, by the way which you envisioned, squad takes a SP for 25 req/power and player can upgrade his squad with weapons he wants.

Yes, exactly. We CAN change it to your initial suggestion (the squad gets a member, or a weapon upgrade), but I followed this method for MANY reasons, one of which is that customizability. The second, the effect when you LOOSE a point. In my system you loose resources as well. In the proposed system I could not think of anything...

Open to change as I said, of course.

I am interested is it possible to give player abilities to exchange weapons in the squad even after he chooses all possible upgrades, in essence making heavy weapon loadout more fluid and flexible?

This is exceedingly difficult, if not impossible

So far, I have not found a way to downgrade a squad...

I will have to see the campaign Hero Wargear customization screen and see how it was done.

@CODERS: Anyone knows how?

 

 

This is how I understood development of this segment so far. One squad can have members belonging to 5 different types (no commanders/heroes).

Yes, but you CAN have commanders or heroes! AND we can use their wargear - in fact we can even have HEROES-ONLY squads! But yeah, up to 5 different types.

Player is able to choose members of his squad (this is where the existence of three starting squad kinda confuses me - why do we need option of three squads if player will be able to create his custom squad, I think we might had a misunderstanding here or Im not getting something).

Well, the two options are NOT mutually exclusive!!!

Option 1] -> Each squads will be HIGHLY customizable.

Option 2] -> You will have 3 squads to choose from.

Of course, option 2] seems irrelevant, but I was thinking: One squads to be more close-combat, the second more ranged combat, and the third, mixed. All three will be customizable of course, but each will be mostly oriented to each type.

For example the close combat-squad will have only one or two ranged upgrade options. The ranged-combat, only a couple close range upgrade options. And the mixed-combat will have equal options in both types of combat, but not AS good as the ones the other have.

> We can of course go with the ONLY ONE SQUAD option, and the player will only have to choose a race.

 

 

If you are asking me to list squads then I presume we are still in the creation process for the feature of custom squads?

Yes!!! We can keep vanilla statistic, but we can have a Kill-Team composition!!!

The idea of kill-team is EXACTLY that, ain't it?


 

...you take a look at this template and tell me if this is what you wanted. If yes, I will updated this message ASAP with two more SM squads and three pointy ears squad

Well, flowing our discussion above, we must decide:

We will keep ONE kill-team squad per race? This is important, because the whole design can be MUCH more refined with only one squad. More to this, we can easily present/cover MORE races that way!!!

At this point, I think I agree with you! One squad per race is more appealing and will give each race MORE options (instead of "spreading" its most important members into 3 squads).

So I guess its one squad per race then???

 

On squad composition, I was thinking something like (here is the template):

(Note: remember that we can have up to 7 leaders+weapon upgrades. Which means that if you have 2 leaders, the regular members can have up to 5 different weapon upgrades.)

 

--------------------------------------------- TEMPLATE ---------------------------------------------

 

SPACE MARINES RACE

Regular Members: Tactical Marines (max 4) - Abilities: Grenades (all members can throw one, async ability)

Regular Members' Weapon Upgrades: 4 different weapons, all 4 members can upgrade to any of the 4 weapons.

Leader 1: Tactical Sergeant (no max) - Abilities: Melta Bombs + Morale restore (both async)

Leader 2: Apothecary (maximum 1) - Abilities: Healing Aura (always on)

Leader 3: Vanguard Veteran  (no max) - Abilities: Fervour (increases melee damage of squad)

Leader 4: NO

OVERALL: Total Squad Members: 9 = 4 Regular (with 4 different weapon upgrades, all upgradeable)  + 5 Leaders (of whatever composition except apoth that is limited to 1)

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

You see why I was thinking about 3 Kill-Teams per race? This is a TACTICAL squad... I couln't have added Assault Marines. And Termies would be a bit off...

But yeah, let's start with ONE type of squad per race, yes?

 

 

 

---------------------------------

Ok, so I also finished the Kill-Team LAST STAND alpha!!

Have a look at your PM box.

 

INSTRUCTIONS for Kill-Team LAST STAND

- 1] Apply the patch I sent you on PM, on a Unification 4.0 installation - simply overwrite all files.
- 2] Then, start a game in (4p) Biffy's Peril map. This is a test map, of course. We will need LS-specific maps in the future!
- 3] Set as many players as you want, but always remember, the LAST ONE will be the enemy computer spawning waves. Biffy's peril is a 4p map, so you can have up to 3 players (human or AI). The 4th player must be the ENEMY AI, and so it cannot be used as an ally player.
Example 1: You are at Slot 1, and you set the enemy AI player at Slot 2. CLOSE ALL OTHER SLOTS! Your race must be either Eldar or Space Marines. For the enemy, better use Chaos Marines.
Example 2: You are at Slot 1, have want a friendly AI player at Slot 2, and you set the ENEMY AI player at Slot 3. CLOSE ALL OTHER SLOTS! Your and the AI assistant player race must be either Eldar or Space Marines. For the enemy in Slot 3, better use Chaos Marines.
- 4] YOU MUST have set [Fixed Positions].
- 5] Now, select the [GameMode] Kill-Team wincondition. And any other Win Conditions you want, but NOT other Win Conditions ( [WC] ). The Last Stand game mode has its own method of determining who wins and who loses, so annihilate, or exterminate would be silly to use.

Winconditions: I suggest you should use: DEFINITELY "Disable Fog of War", "Heroes" and "Change Players", especially if you use AI allies (the do not play OK, because there are still Strategic Locations on the map...) ! Good Idea to Use: "Weather Conditions", "Day and Night", "AI MapDB".

If you want to alter the waves' composition: Go to Unification_Bugfix\Data\scenarios\mp\4p_biffys_peril.scar and open it with notepad. Then, use common knowledge.
The waves are FULLY and EASILY adjustable!

 

 

... Whoa this was a looong post

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

Yes, exactly. We CAN change it to your initial suggestion (the squad gets a member, or a weapon upgrade), but I followed this method for MANY reasons, one of which is that customizability. The second, the effect when you LOOSE a point. In my system you loose resources as well. In the proposed system I could not think of anything...

Open to change as I said, of course.

 

My initial suggestion was such as it was because I thought it would increase fun if you constantly change your weapon loadout after taking a SP. Your idea is great and I especially like the lose of resources (penalty) once you lose your SP.  We are good as we are with your proposal, just let me ask you, how hard would it be to code my version - squad takes a SP and every member gets is automatically upgraded with the same weapon/upgraded with randomly allocated weapons?
 

This is exceedingly difficult, if not impossible 

So far, I have not found a way to downgrade a squad...

I will have to see the campaign Hero Wargear customization screen and see how it was done.

@CODERS: Anyone knows how?

 

 No problem mate, if it would take too much time of your time no need to bother yourself with it. However, regarding this issue, is it possible to add a button to unit management bar which wipes clean (downgrades) all weapons instantaneously so squad is downgraded to status of no heavy weapons at all. I just thought it might be a good option to give player ability to change his weapon load out if he wants to, one way or the other.

 

Yes, but you CAN have commanders or heroes! AND we can use their wargear - in fact we can even have HEROES-ONLY squads! But yeah, up to 5 different types

 

 Yeah, I still dont know what to think of that. To include them into Kill Team or not? It seems it could be fun, if that is not too much of a hassle with you maybe we could test out this feature with commanders and see how squads behave? But then it still leaves the question what to do with Relics and what to give them as their bonus received after capturing.
 

Well, the two options are NOT mutually exclusive!!!

Option 1] -> Each squads will be HIGHLY customizable.

Option 2] -> You will have 3 squads to choose from.

Of course, option 2] seems irrelevant, but I was thinking: One squads to be more close-combat, the second more ranged combat, and the third, mixed. All three will be customizable of course, but each will be mostly oriented to each type.

For example the close combat-squad will have only one or two ranged upgrade options. The ranged-combat, only a couple close range upgrade options. And the mixed-combat will have equal options in both types of combat, but not AS good as the ones the other have.

> We can of course go with the ONLY ONE SQUAD option, and the player will only have to choose a race. 

Your idea is good and I like it, it seems legit. We could have CC squad, range squad and lets say a support squad by which I mean Scouts who could maybe get servo skulls and servitors (which would build turrets or some other buildings). Your idea is good, I just wanted to give player ability to use whatever infantry unit he wants, from a certain race, to build his squad  but after what you said:
 

 

We will keep ONE kill-team squad per race? This is important, because the whole design can be MUCH more refined with only one squad. More to this, we can easily present/cover MORE races that way!!!

At this point, I think I agree with you! One squad per race is more appealing and will give each race MORE options (instead of "spreading" its most important members into 3 squads).

So I guess its one squad per race then??? 

You see why I was thinking about 3 Kill-Teams per race? This is a TACTICAL squad... I couln't have added Assault Marines. And Termies would be a bit off...

But yeah, let's start with ONE type of squad per race, yes?

 

I see more clearly the logic behind three races cause my idea depends on player being able to make squad out of any infantry available to the race he controls. If you cant add some of them it kinda defeats the purpose, but yeah, for now, lets go with one squad.

 

On squad composition, I was thinking something like (here is the template):

(Note: remember that we can have up to 7 leaders+weapon upgrades. Which means that if you have 2 leaders, the regular members can have up to 5 different weapon upgrades.)

 

--------------------------------------------- TEMPLATE ---------------------------------------------

 

SPACE MARINES RACE

Regular Members: Tactical Marines (max 4) - Abilities: Grenades (all members can throw one, async ability)

Regular Members' Weapon Upgrades: 4 different weapons, all 4 members can upgrade to any of the 4 weapons.

Leader 1: Tactical Sergeant (no max) - Abilities: Melta Bombs + Morale restore (both async)

Leader 2: Apothecary (maximum 1) - Abilities: Healing Aura (always on)

Leader 3: Vanguard Veteran  (no max) - Abilities: Fervour (increases melee damage of squad)

Leader 4: NO

OVERALL: Total Squad Members: 9 = 4 Regular (with 4 different weapon upgrades, all upgradeable)  + 5 Leaders (of whatever composition except apoth that is limited to 1)

 

Given Im not really sure what my options are, if its not a problem for you and you are willing, I am more then willing to let you compose the squads. I presumed we were going with vanilla but I see we have already Vanguard Veteran which means you are planning to draw models for squads from some already existing mod given they are not in vanilla?
 

Ok, so I also finished the Kill-Team LAST STAND alpha!!

 

Excellent news mate, I will take a look as soon as I can. I am almost home, should be by tonight so I believe I could give you my impressions in the next couple of hours.

 

 

... Whoa this was a looong post 

 

LOL, welcome to my world brother  

[Gambit]

...just let me ask you, how hard would it be to code my version - squad takes a SP and every member gets is automatically upgraded with the same weapon/upgraded with randomly allocated weapons?

Very easy

But remember, there are NO "downgrades". Once you get a weapon, you keep it.

We can have it as an option, but I think it is limiting... Hence my decision on the resource-investing version.

 

 

... is it possible to add a button to unit management bar which wipes clean (downgrades) all weapons instantaneously so squad is downgraded to status of no heavy weapons at all.

Yes, this is possible. We can use an ability that spawns a control entity, and have the code "read" your squad once that entity is found, and replace it with an identical, non-upgraded squad.

 

 

Race Choices and Squad Composition

1] Well at first, we will DEFINITELY use only one squad per race. Using 3 is too much, and will take too much time -at least at the first iteration/implementation of the win condition. Then, we can proceed with more, if we want.

2] I can compose the squads of course... Keep in mind that the template I gave above shows EXACTLY how a squad can be manned and armed.

3] We can definitely use ONLY VANILLA stats! And models. That Vanguard Veteran could easily be a Grey Knight member! I was just exploring the possibilities.

 

 

Kill-Team Last Stand

Man, just play a bit. It is GOOD!!!

Remember, it is silly at this alpha stage. I was only meticulous on carefully coding the "back-bone" of the new game mode,...
... So there are no visuals, no customization, no saving progress, no central building with RESEARCHES to further upgrade your troops with ADDITIONAL wargear/skills.abilities ... And of course the map still has the HQs as places where you spawn your squads, which are still placed at the far ends of the map instead at the center, there are still Capturing Points, the AI is off, balance is off, the squads are not ready yet (they may get EVEN COMMANDERS with wargear)....
YOU GOT THE PICTURE!

 

But .. I LIKE IT!

 

 

By the way, please gimme some time for the next version, because I am now perfecting the Survival mode (have you tried it??)

I want CLOSURE - to finish what is left undone from the past - and then proceed to Kill-Team.

So please have a go with the latest version I uploaded and also see the Last Stand (only up to 4th wave, and NO reward/ending after that, but you WILL get the picture)

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

Yes, this is possible. We can use an ability that spawns a control entity, and have the code "read" your squad once that entity is found, and replace it with an identical, non-upgraded squad. 

 

But could this cause an issue with certain gameplay modes, like Heroes for example, where squad has certain level of experience. Would replacing the squad mean that the experience is lost as well and is there some way around it?

 

Race Choices and Squad Composition

1] Well at first, we will DEFINITELY use only one squad per race. Using 3 is too much, and will take too much time -at least at the first iteration/implementation of the win condition. Then, we can proceed with more, if we want.

I agree, we should see how gameplay behaves and if need be we can maybe make squads into something like predefined classes, like in FPS, assault, support, range and similar, if we see that the one squad approach is not really working.

 

2] I can compose the squads of course... Keep in mind that the template I gave above shows EXACTLY how a squad can be manned and armed.

 

Ok, I leave it up to you.

 

3] We can definitely use ONLY VANILLA stats! And models. That Vanguard Veteran could easily be a Grey Knight member! I was just exploring the possibilities.

 

Dont get me wrong, I would love to use more custom models, but I presume we would then need to talk with other mod teams and see if we can get their permission to use their assets in our mode. For now, we go with vanilla.
 

Kill-Team Last Stand

Man, just play a bit. It is GOOD!!!

Remember, it is silly at this alpha stage. I was only meticulous on carefully coding the "back-bone" of the new game mode,...
... So there are no visuals, no customization, no saving progress, no central building with RESEARCHES to further upgrade your troops with ADDITIONAL wargear/skills.abilities   ... And of course the map still has the HQs as places where you spawn your squads, which are still placed at the far ends of the map instead at the center, there are still Capturing Points, the AI is off, balance is off, the squads are not ready yet (they may get EVEN COMMANDERS with wargear)....
YOU GOT THE PICTURE!

 

I get it, dont worry mate, I have a good feeling about this and we just started so no need to worry Im sure this will be a blast. 
 

By the way, please gimme some time for the next version, because I am now perfecting the Survival mode (have you tried it??)

I want CLOSURE - to finish what is left undone from the past - and then proceed to Kill-Team.

So please have a go with the latest version I uploaded and also see the Last Stand (only up to 4th wave, and NO reward/ending after that, but you WILL get the picture)

 

No problem brother, take some time off the KT, this has been moving forward at very fast pace, I think it might do us good to slow down a bit and let things relax a bit.
I HAVE tried Survival mod and I thought it went well up to the point when I was rushed by a wave of 6 Bloodthirsters and 4 Demon princes. At that moment I knew it was time to leave it be I did like it. I understand the need to tie loose ends up, you go ahead and finish what you need. I will try both new KT and LS and give you my impressions. 

If you are willing and have time, maybe we could talk about further development on Skype or Discord, for the sake of more clearer and faster understanding and brainstorming.  

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

Ok, so my first impression of the latest KT and LS.

As far as KT goes I didnt get far as every time I loaded it up, I got SCAR error. I used two maps for 4 players, neither of them being Buffy Peril. Choosing system seems to work good, I got the HQ and three possible squads, Termies, Tacticals and Assaults. Selection worked fine and I like the speed of capping the SP and other locations, think we can stick with this speed.
In the first KT match, whenever I took SP or Relic, I wouldn't get any resources, it would just show Req 0+0  and Energy 0+0. However, in the second match I didn't even get the numerical representation of resource quantity because the small bars which usually show resource number and addition rate where completely black. 
Enemies were non existent. 

Regarding LS, it is good for start, I took into account everything you said and AI behaved as it should and upgrade weapons system works like you envisioned. I played 4 matches, didn't win any of them. Like you suggested enemy forces were Chaos and they seemed resilient more than usual to my weapons, while their own weapons seemed rather punishing. 
Glitch I noticed is with Terminator Assault Cannon which sometimes just stops firing for no apparent reason. In one second it works just fine, in the next it does not, despite enemies being in range. Also, it seemed underpowered and took its time in killing enemies who were in negative cover as well.
I played on Buffy Peril. 
One more thing, range on Chaos Marine heavy bolter is to large, it would reach my units, even Tacticals with HB of their own without provoking retaliation. 
All in all, my units seemed easily overwhelmed, Tacticals especially, weapons seemed less efficient than that of enemies and Termies were the only ones who got some chance against enemies but usually by Wave 3 Im done. 
Responses of my units seemed sluggish, sometimes non-existent, like with AC for Terminators. Heavy flamer worked fine.
Eldar died fast, in the second wave. Space marines fare little better. 
I played couple of games in composition me - SM, 2 AI - Eldar, enemy - Chaos. Only once did I go with all SM players versus Chaos. 

Edited by ZmajOgnjeniVuk, 12 September 2018 - 06:10 PM.

[Gambit]

Sorry for the late response, TOO much to do with the projects (by the way, the new Dark Angels is out - probably our final version!)

 

 

 

 

But could this cause an issue with certain gameplay modes, like Heroes for example, where squad has certain level of experience. Would replacing the squad mean that the experience is lost as well and is there some way around it?

Well, I CAN transfer the experience points (or better its level) from one squad to the other, but this is COMPLEX... Still, doable.

 

For now, we go with vanilla.

Totally agree.

 

If you are willing and have time, maybe we could talk about further development on Skype or Discord, for the sake of more clearer and faster understanding and brainstorming.

Well, I am generally distanced from those platforms

Hey, I do not even have (ANY) social media network account (I especially disdain FB!!)

PMing keeps things slow, but really neat. Are you OK with that brother?

 

 

As far as KT goes I didnt get far as every time I loaded it up, I got SCAR error.

Strange... Please post the exact game report if you can.

Probably that is why you have issues with the KT game itself...

 

Regarding LS, it is good for start, I took into account everything you said and AI behaved as it should and upgrade weapons system works like you envisioned. I played 4 matches, didn't win any of them.

This was simply a showcase, difficulty is waaay off

 

Glitch I noticed is with Terminator Assault Cannon which sometimes just stops firing for no apparent reason.

If so, it must be a glitch of the vanilla game as well - it is just that with single-squad games, you notice EVERY detail of the models.

 

One more thing, range on Chaos Marine heavy bolter is to large, it would reach my units, even Tacticals with HB of their own without provoking retaliation.

I noticed that as well... But it is not the range. Both weapons are 35. It is the minimum distance a squad engages enemies... Player squads do not follow the same method as AI-controlled squads.

 

All in all, my units seemed easily overwhelmed, Tacticals especially, weapons seemed less efficient than that of enemies and Termies were the only ones who got some chance against enemies but usually by Wave 3 Im done.

Well, as I said, I haphazardly created the enemy's composition I have already updated it, we won 10 waves with my brother, with some ease, in the last game!

 

Eldar died fast, in the second wave. Space marines fare little better.

I got tacticals, my brother got warp spiders, but yeah, the other configs may be under-powered.

 

I played couple of games in composition me - SM, 2 AI - Eldar, enemy - Chaos. Only once did I go with all SM players versus Chaos.

I do not recall if it is already so in my latest updated, but try sing Softcore win condition. I have coded it so that YOUR units only get double HPs...

But as I said, it is so in my latest build, I do not remember if it is so in yours...

 

 

 

So, gimme sometime, I as STILL trying to perfect Survival. Dammit, in MP games it is STILL giving me de-sync errors, and I have reviewed the WHOLE code at least twice and fixed wherever seemed suspicious...

I will return to KT and LS as soon as possible. But not very soon

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

Sorry for the late response, TOO much to do with the projects (by the way, the new Dark Angels is out - probably our final version!)

 

No problem mate, take your time  
 

Well, I CAN transfer the experience points (or better its level) from one squad to the other, but this is COMPLEX... Still, doable. 

 

Good enough for me, just something to keep in mind as we consider the option of giving player ability to "degrade" his squad so he can choose new weapons.
 

Well, I am generally distanced from those platforms 

Hey, I do not even have (ANY) social media network account (I especially disdain FB!!)

PMing keeps things slow, but really neat. Are you OK with that brother?

 

Of course man, no problem, thought actual conversation could speed things up, but no pressure If you like slow and neat, PMing it is

 

Strange... Please post the exact game report if you can.

Probably that is why you have issues with the KT game itself...

 

Can you tell me where to find it, I knew there is report somewhere but for life of me, I cant remember. 
 

This was simply a showcase, difficulty is waaay off 

 

Good to know, thought I was losing my edge  
 

It is the minimum distance a squad engages enemies... Player squads do not follow the same method as AI-controlled squads.

 

Can anything be done about this? Its rather annoying and I dont want to lose to Chaos  

 

I got tacticals, my brother got warp spiders, but yeah, the other configs may be under-powered.

 

Eldar AI always choose Banishes, and given the standard AI behavior, they went to cap points and lost time doing that. I think if we were all together, they would have been better, but Chaos Marines with Plasma guns destroyed them, they were the biggest issue.
 

 So, gimme sometime, I as STILL trying to perfect Survival. Dammit, in MP games it is STILL giving me de-sync errors, and I have reviewed the WHOLE code at least twice and fixed wherever seemed suspicious...

I will return to KT and LS as soon as possible. But not very soon 

 

No problem brother, take your time, I should get back to the Paradise Lost map as well, have some more things to finish. It is good working with you but I get it that you work on many projects at the same time. 
You finish what you have to and then we can continue KT and LS.

[Gambit]

Can you tell me where to find it, I knew there is report somewhere but for life of me, I cant remember.

If you run the game in -dev mode, then you will see a whole new folder with all kinds of reports into the logfiles folder of the Soulstorm directory!

 

Good to know, thought I was losing my edge

No way!!

I recall playing the "old version" of waves (the one you have), and losing at the 3rd wave...

 

Can anything be done about this? Its rather annoying and I dont want to lose to Chaos

There are two AE changes, first increasing the range the squad engages enemies, and set [false] to moving to minimum distance on engaging...

Both will require altering vanilla files, so we better don't...

 

No problem brother, take your time, I should get back to the Paradise Lost map as well, have some more things to finish. It is good working with you but I get it that you work on many projects at the same time. 
You finish what you have to and then we can continue KT and LS.

Excellent!

We return to this KT and LS in due time.

For now, I have some other tasks in various projects...

By the way we have just released Dark Angels!

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

If you run the game in -dev mode, then you will see a whole new folder with all kinds of reports into the logfiles folder of the Soulstorm directory!

 

OK, so I figured that out, however, it would seem the issue was with the Biffy Peril map, because last night I played about 10 matches of KT on different maps (not BP) and it went without any problems. Terminators with heavy flamers and assault cannons are whole lot of fun  but Tacticals, flamers+plasma guns = good bye everything else on the map. It was fun, and I think with actual human players it would be even more fun.

 

There are two AE changes, first increasing the range the squad engages enemies, and set [false] to moving to minimum distance on engaging...

Both will require altering vanilla files, so we better don't...

 

Roger that mate, lets not mess with anything, let player adapt I guess

 

By the way we have just released Dark Angels!

 

So is this the final version?

[Gambit]

OK, so I figured that out, however, it would seem the issue was with the Biffy Peril map, because last night I played about 10 matches of KT on different maps (not BP) and it went without any problems.

Indeed. Here is how it works:

KT mode works on any skirmish map.

LS mode is map-specific! For now, LS works ONLY for Biffy's Peril

 

Terminators with heavy flamers and assault cannons are whole lot of fun  but Tacticals, flamers+plasma guns = good bye everything else on the map. It was fun, and I think with actual human players it would be even more fun.

Well, as I said, even in this "primitive" mode, it is fun to play if other human players are in-game.

I played with my brother and he agreed that it was interesting!

 

So is this the final version?

Yes, that is the last Dark Angels version.

... BUT I guess there will be... one more update! See, there is a discussion on removing missile launchers from tacticals and replace them with melta guns. But other than that, I will collect whatever issues the community mentions, and make a last 3.1 version, and that's it