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#1 Meyerm

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 03:51 AM

I thought I'd ask this after seeing more and more customized rulesmo files being made for personal use. I've been doing this myself, but my files have always come from secondhand and tend to break the game whenever there's an update. I just want to know how inis are being accessed by players despite the files being locked. 



#2 Handepsilon

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 04:49 AM

Google the way

We are not allowed to openly discuss this at all

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#3 Meyerm

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 09:00 PM

Okay well I already Googled for any answers and came up dry. If it's just a matter of keeping it private I'll talk to anyone in PM. I don't understand why they're so closely guarded, but I hope my past discretion with what I've obtained through 3rd parties demonstrates my trust. 



#4 BotRot

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 01:42 AM

If I'm not mistaken, the files are "closely guarded" as most of the assets there could be stolen by others and put in their own mods, and some of the assets included there are not supposed to be visible to the general public.


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#5 Petya

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 09:44 AM

Okay well I already Googled for any answers and came up dry. If it's just a matter of keeping it private I'll talk to anyone in PM. I don't understand why they're so closely guarded, but I hope my past discretion with what I've obtained through 3rd parties demonstrates my trust. 

1, Assets could be stolen. Not all of them were made for public use.

2, So that you don't meddle with the files and break the game for yourself.

2.1, To come later on here, asking for help because you broke the game and then nobody from the team will be able to help you, because they don't know what you did exactly.

2.2, Even the minor edits could make you totally unable to play online.

 

These being said, the forum is not meant for discussing this, because the Team will not be responsible for them.



#6 Divine

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 08:34 PM

Just make up your mind already  :lol:
 

 

Okay well I already Googled for any answers and came up dry. If it's just a matter of keeping it private I'll talk to anyone in PM. I don't understand why they're so closely guarded, but I hope my past discretion with what I've obtained through 3rd parties demonstrates my trust.

1, Assets could be stolen. Not all of them were made for public use.
2, So that you don't meddle with the files and break the game for yourself.
2.1, To come later on here, asking for help because you broke the game and then nobody from the team will be able to help you, because they don't know what you did exactly.
2.2, Even the minor edits could make you totally unable to play online.
 
These being said, the forum is not meant for discussing this, because the Team will not be responsible for them.

 


 

This should be a gameplay option tbh.

No, it shouldn't be. Break the game for yourselves if you want, but it'll never be a gameplay option for obvious reasons.

 

 

Joke aside, Petya is right, the fewer people have access to the internals of the mod the better. Not only for the reasons he mentioned, but also because ini editing can be a way of cheating, and because the ini files also contain major spoilers. Although I think sooner or later they will be inevitably released officially.



#7 Meyerm

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 09:16 PM

Keeping it guarded for spoiler reasons I understand. As for cheating, I thought modified inis could only be used in multiplayer if all the players have the same files. And as for breaking the game, I would say mod at your own risk. If you screw up you fix it yourself or do a clean reinstall. Ultimately it would be nice to see unlocked rules files once the campaign is complete. I don't even play online. I just use them for my own purposes, like skirmish against AI with Act 1 tech (Soviet mind control, humvees, etc.) and what not. 



#8 Petya

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 10:28 PM

Keeping it guarded for spoiler reasons I understand. As for cheating, I thought modified inis could only be used in multiplayer if all the players have the same files. And as for breaking the game, I would say mod at your own risk. If you screw up you fix it yourself or do a clean reinstall. Ultimately it would be nice to see unlocked rules files once the campaign is complete. I don't even play online. I just use them for my own purposes, like skirmish against AI with Act 1 tech (Soviet mind control, humvees, etc.) and what not. 

Modified inis CAN be used for cheating, if you happen to find out the system's loophole. Although inis are rather limited for cheating, it's not entirely impossible to modify the game for the cheater's advantage.

 

We are already aware of that people actually force open the protected files (that's kind of the only way of creating the nastier types of hacks), but that doesn't mean the protection will be lifted (not many people are actually capable of doing so).

 

And again, protecting the assets is the top priority. We know a lot of other modders who would gladly lay their hands on some of the MO assets. To prevent any possible conflict with content creators (who didn't intend the assets to be made public), the protection is there to decrease the chances. Furthermore let's not forget that the ini contains information about how certain stuff work, which can be copied as well.



#9 Solais

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:09 AM

Hmm, the last bit sorta irks me just a little. I'd rather see info about how things work released to the public eventually, so all other potential modders could learn how to do great things. But then again, I don't plan to mod RA2 again, so technically I don't care, but still.



#10 Handepsilon

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 04:16 AM

Keeping it guarded for spoiler reasons I understand. As for cheating, I thought modified inis could only be used in multiplayer if all the players have the same files. And as for breaking the game, I would say mod at your own risk. If you screw up you fix it yourself or do a clean reinstall. Ultimately it would be nice to see unlocked rules files once the campaign is complete. I don't even play online. I just use them for my own purposes, like skirmish against AI with Act 1 tech (Soviet mind control, humvees, etc.) and what not.


The fact that prior to 3.3.3 we had Paradox engine being built in multiplayer that Speeder disabled their weapons by default in response proved otherwise. People are also still able to train some Apocs and other Stolen Tech

Let's not forget Space Commando and Rashidi

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#11 Petya

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:06 AM

Hmm, the last bit sorta irks me just a little. I'd rather see info about how things work released to the public eventually, so all other potential modders could learn how to do great things. But then again, I don't plan to mod RA2 again, so technically I don't care, but still.

Those aren't exactly big secrets, and you can ask professionals on modding forums how certain things work, but there are some people, who would rather rip off things altogether than recreate them.

 

Protection will hardly stop modders, because unless you didn't know, it's already a thing, because they can lift the protection. :p



#12 Handepsilon

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:37 AM

 

I'd rather see info about how things work

Those are best explained in Ares documentation.

 

Really, if you read a lot from it and knows how vanilla rules work, you can get some guesses on how things were done.

 

And no, Mental Omega has no custom logic that Ares doesn't have.


Edited by Handepsilon, 02 November 2018 - 08:40 AM.

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#13 Solais

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 10:41 AM

Well yes, obviously. Though it sounded like as if MO had something MOre, and that was protected. It's mostly just because a certain other modding community I'm part of have people accusing others of withholding modding related knowledge, and such an attitude irks me.



#14 Petya

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:03 PM

Nothing is withheld, everything is documented in the Ares documentation + there is an awful lot of information on forums, but no modder will make specifics public, because of the danger of ripping off.

 

The protection is also there for preventing certain unused assets to be revealed before they time have come. Of course this doesn't prevent them to be leaked anyway.



#15 Meyerm

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:02 PM

But it's already been proven that there's a work around for acquiring the files anyways, and I'd bet anyone with enough knowledge on the topic to make their own mod would also know how to get those files themselves. 



#16 Petya

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:19 PM

This is the most the Team could do. Everyone knows that people will find out the workarounds, but the fewer people can pull it off the better. Lifting the protection would only make it available for even more people, who would otherwise not know how to pull it off. This is especially true for those meme modders.






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