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A bunch of bugs and suggestions for AOTR 6.0

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#1 Nerevar42

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 07:37 PM

Hi everybody !


So I've played the mod with the new update. The WR faction is really really great and I love all the effort put on the details or the designs for this "elven but not that much" faction. However, I also noticed some bugs, essentially minor ones easily fixable (kinda expected considered this is a something.0 version) and faced issues on my own personal way to play BFME. Let's go.


EDIT : I'll come back here again, probably. I'll keep editing as I find new bugs or new ideas. You may have to read again if you want to know about the last news or if you're interested in my little non-experienced guy suggestions.


1) Bugs


- Misty Mountains : The faction is still problematic when trying to play on Fortress maps with build plots. On Fortress : Amon Sûl, as I said earlier for AOTR 5.1, resource buildings still have a circle and a percentage even if built on build plots. And we also start with builders. On Fortress : Minas Morgul, we don't have builders (and that's cool) but we still have the circles on tunnels or hoards. Also, Warg Riders (that changed to a very cool design) don't say anything when recruited, total silence. No "the warg riders are here" or something like that. -> my bad, it works.


- Erebor : I have to say that the subfaction update is REALLY cool, and I didn't have the time yet to test it all. Still some bugs though. Adâruf-sulûkh, aka Wyrm-slayers, can be upgraded with Thror's Banners and reach level 2 as intended but don't get any banner carrier (still the same amount of units in the batallion). The Zirinmazn demolisher has no keyboard shortcut and its explanation text is centered while others have cost and GP on the right or the left of the infobox. The mangonel is still derping out when dying (one of the two Dwarves flies a little bit). Peasant Erebor is broken on original BFME2 Erebor map when put in the mountain, their builders don't do anything.


- Isengard : I'm not even sure this is a bug but armories are giving a surplus bonus and furnaces a steel bonus. Maybe this was supposed to be the opposite ?


- Mordor : For some reason, the Mûmaks can't cross the bridge of Rivendell in the last mission of Evil Campaign. I encountered the same problem with my Mûmaks on Carn Dûm map in 5.1. Also, it seems that the Mûmak Den can be built on a build plot of Fortress : Minas Morgul before the spellbook power He Is Gathering All Evil To Him. Little weird thing : the power "Dark Sorcery" of the Mouth of Sauron can be used whether as an active buff or an active debuff, but this is actually the active buff effect infotext that got the "Does not stack with other Debuffs" explanation.


- Woodland Realm : When playing with this faction on Fortress maps with build plots, I noticed that the healing Vine Well doesn't have any text in the infobox (you know, the regular "MISSINGBLAHBLAH"). Also, on the original map Rivendell (not the Fortress : Last Lomely House), Gilded Guard isn't available.


- Rivendell : On Fortress Map : Amon Sûl, Revelers are unavailable. Maybe it's the same with other Fortress maps. Also, the upgrade of the Library giving Orchards a +30% doesn't work well : an Orchard as +20R only gets up to +23 with the upgrade instead of +26.


- Lothlorien : Peasant Lothlorien is broken on Blackroot Vale map, their builders don't do anything from the beginning to the very end.


- Rohan : Westfolders can't use their packed formation (pretty much the same as Anorien Swordsmen) while more than one batallion is selected. I mean that the appropriate option doesn't appear in the palantir interface if you control more than one Westfolders at a time.


- Gondor : I don't know why, but on Fortress : Pelargir, even with more than six farms, I only get 15% of reduction on the cost of my cavalry. Also, Gandalf can't use his blast while mounted on Shadowfax. If it's intentional, I don't understand how mounted magic blast could be problematic.


- General :

- I saw almost every game a red glow on archers (orcs, Gondor, Erebor...) and I don't know what that means, this wasn't there before.

- There is still no custom heroes available for the new factions such as WR, Rohan, Rivendell and Dol Guldur. Maybe for some reason the heroes can't be used by a faction that isn't vanilla but I remember that Edain Mod found a way to use custom heroes.

- Keyboard shortcuts such as A and W aren't that helpful. The first one literaly escapes the interface and the second triggers the strategy mode.

- AI doesn't work on AOTR Fortress maps when put in the stronghold with build plots, and that's probably why these maps aren't on WOTR. But I guess the really good Besiege AI is supposed to work out as a replacement.

- The mission occurring in the Grey Havens in the Evil Campaign cannot be finished if we miss one of the elven ships : nothing happens after the abovementioned ship disappears at the border of the map.

- It seems that units meant to be recruited in the fortress or the citadel (Revelers, Gilded Guard) are not always available (tested on different maps, both AOTR and BFME2). But for example, we can afford Morgul Vanguard in Fortress : Minas Morgul with Mordor, so... this is probably only some features forgotten here and there that can easily be fixed.

- On Besiege maps, allies don't do anything, no matter their level of difficulty. It's probably because the Besiege AI is apart from the "players" placed on the map at the beginning, but... does that mean all the player plots on Besiege maps are supposed to be enemies, in addition to the fortress siege, or is it simply to siege online ? A little trick also at the end of the siege : you have to destroy the gate (well in fact you have to do it at least on Besiege : Isengard) to win even if all buildings are gone.

- Missing capturable and creeps informations on the description of the BFME2 Dol Guldur map.

- AI is still broken on diverse BFME2 "fortress" maps when put within the walls, as I said for 5.1 : it mostly builds resource buildings and sometimes heroes and units from the citadel (like Morgul Orcs) when it's not completely inactive. They don't build barracks, meaning they only attack with fortress units, and not always. It's probably way more difficult in a "fortress" BFME2 map to make factions work as intended, because there is no flat floor space available to build the common fortress surrounded by buildings, but the original game managed to give AIs a building grid or something to force it to adopt the geography of the map and build barracks on specific spots.


Now the thing that clearly surpised me... how is +32 the resource generation of a Peasant Mordor for a lvl 1 slaughterhouse placed between two massive rocks unable to give R percentage ? That should be a half less ! It's Peasant ! And I'm sure it wasn't buffed by the spell.


Speaking of Peasant AI... Mordor and Misty Mountains are unspeakably aggressive even in Peasant difficulty ! WR, in comparison, does absolutely nothing. And when I play on a map with Peasant Rohan as my ally, he literaly does nothing, he builds multiple towers and not a single farm, and he's not training units. How did the AI changed its attack strategy so hard between 5.1 and 6.0 ? Maybe the unholy x2 resource multiplier that AI seemed to be using has something to do with this nonsense. Within the first ten minutes, Peasant Mordor has an immensely well protected base camp with dozens of towers everywhere and fortress upgrades. Peasant ! Please tell me that this is a bug and not a freaking AI buff because for a Peasant difficulty this is way too hard.


Okay, I know I'm a casual gamer, I'm not spending my days on BFME and I'm not playing online, but I'm not dumb. In comparison to 5.1, I think this situation, even with Peasant difficulty, is just stupidly favoring the AI. Maybe, but that's only a maybe because I don't really understand how difficult it is to make the AI of BFME work as intended, maybe you can create something that lets the player choose his AI, for his allies and his enemies. Like in Age of Mythology ! Examples : aggressive early game rush, upgraded units late game conquest, walls and towers defensive strategy, multiple base and fortresses builder, for example. I'm pretty sure this is way too complicated for me and I think this could also be way too difficult to implement for you, but... you know. Just to equilibrate things a little bit.


Well, sorry for all that, I'll stop throwing truths and judgments that I'm not even sure about. Let's get to the suggestion part, that is completely subjective (and I've already started as you probably saw). Take what you want.


2) Suggestions (not that much, almost only reactions)


- Woodland Realm : As said elsewhere on the site, ballistas can hit something that we can't see (same for Isengard for a while though). I'm not against a reduction of the range of these siege equipments to fit their vision, but maybe this is a strategy to have to launch other units right in the enemy base in order to be able to hit buildings with ballistas. I don't know. Great damage by the way, WR ballistas are quite strong.


- Isengard : Nothing really changed since 5.1, and the faction is still pretty cool. I could use some range defenses on walls, but maybe I'm way too happy playing defensive games even with factions that aren't supposed to do so.


- Gondor : Same as above, without the need for defenses that are already available. Cool faction, cool gameplay. Weird voice for the Lamedon Clansmen though. Is this the 5.1 one just weirdly modified so it sounds more... idk, Lamedon ?


- Misty Mountains : Nice update on the Gundabad Riders. Didn't try out the Wyrm but maybe the recruitable Giant is a little bit too much, meaning that he doesn't cross the door of the Troll Lair without clipping.


- Dol Guldur : Thank you so much for giving the Castellans the ability to move faster than a dead mussel. I like the idea of an expensive Spire of Sorcery, but this makes the Dol Guldur start really slow. I almost got wrecked by a bunch of early game Lothlorien archers, again in Peasant difficulty (with clearly not a Peasant level base : lvl 3 barracks everywhere, Ents, towers, fully upgraded fortress, seriously wtf ?)


- Mordor : Excellent faction, as always. But I don't understand why you changed the Kataphrakts voice. The old one was less exaggerated, deeper, and fitted more to the heavy cavalry of the East. On my opinion.


- Erebor : Well, it's sad I have a lot of things to say because it's the most updated faction after the new WR. I don't really understand why is the Erebor special unit barrack so expensive. And the last heroic unit is not that convincing for me, I would have thought about something less like the four Dwarves of ROTWK and more like a sword/spear mithril-armoured tanky creepy long-bearded unit from Moria. You know, instead of a bunch of warriors in golden plates. But this is completely my way of seeing things and thank you for updating Erebor, this is amazing. About the absence of cavalry, it makes the Erebor faction really hard to play for people like me, rushing the Arkenstone was in fact the only way to defend myself against factions such as Lothlorien or Rohan that quickly make archers and destroy slow-moving dwarven infantry. Now they move a little bit faster but this isn't the same. But I understand, this is a special faction and a special strategy. Thanks again for the subfaction thing, I missed Gloin and Gimli, and to distinguish Dale soldiers from Laketown units is as cool as it sounds.


- General : I love the idea of giving lore-based names to units in sindarin, quenya or khûzdul, but could you consider invert the order of names ? Put the common language in white so we can easily talk about it and recognize it, and put the elven or dwarven name in yellow in the infobox with the other lore info. However, I don't know if Tolkien wrote enough to, but it would be interesting to give heroic units in Mordor or Misty Mountains a black speech name ?

Also, about the new version of BFME2 campaigns, this is amazing. A little idea that I came up with in the last mission for Good though : just a little bit more orc pikemen would avoid the player to rush Ents and obliterate the whole fortress by giving some resistance to this specific strategy, that was difficult to use in the original game because of the catapults.


Thank you for reading, I hope you're not angry after me because I didn't say the right thing or for some other reason I'm not aware of. I love BFME and AOTR, and I can't thank you enough (yes, I often used the word "thank") for your work. Do something about this AI thing though, please. Maybe this is not a bug and this is intended, maybe professionnal players really want the game to be like it is now in 6.0, but for players like me this is really annoying to play against a clearly buffed AI compared to ROTWK. I like difficulty, but I want to chill sometimes. Bye, and good luck !

Edited by Nerevar42, 24 November 2020 - 09:19 PM.

#2 tomatodelavegas

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 01:54 PM

I second the comment on the AI! If the enemy's AI is overpowered so should be the ally AI; And in all honesty multiplying the AI's ressources seems like a good way of enhancing it's strength but it feels more like a joke to the players and it's quite unfair; Maybe it should be the case for last tier difficulties yes but definitely not for starter difficulties such as Peasant.

#3 Thranduil_King

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 04:47 PM

I would like to continue appending in this topic the observations and bugs that I find in this version 6.0. (Good comments and suggestions by the way by Nerevar42).
1) As I added in another topic, this problem is also clearly present in skirmishes. Greenwood archers sometimes jam, and they walk reverse very slowly, even if i change them in defense mode, put them in attack, they do not change, they are selectable but without any action. Even i don´t know if for this made crash in a match in real time playing WotR.
2) The WR ballistas built in the expansions / extenders of the fortress, have a CP cost (when I also understand that it should not be like that).
3) You can't summon Ferendir units if you already have 5 on the battlefield.
1) Wyrm Slayers units, sometimes they cannot attack even if you order them, nor can they defend themselves, they can just move, just this.
2) I don't know if this is a problem, I haven't played much with Erebor yet, but I was told when I played multiplayer that some units are incredibly strong and resistant.
Suggestions and observations:
1) Several times I have noticed that the AI has an army to use and defend itself, but it just simply doesn't use them. I can happily and easily be attacking their base on one side while on the other it have their army stopped without doing anything, I don't know if this is because AI prefer to gather troops and give preference to attacking than to defend itself.
2) At this point I do not know how to comment on this, but the game gets slower when playing now (i didn´t changed anything of course), it is understandable since the AI now makes more units and structures, but I have already lowered the graphics a lot and it is still somewhat slow, I even added more ram memory, I do not know why or if only I have this problem.
3) I have noticed that the AI is not so aggressive and strong being my ally that when it is my enemy, this could be disadvantageous (I can not say with great certainty this, I need to play more).
4) The AI still continues to focus on attacking only a single player, I can easily leave my kingdom abandoned and they do not attack me.
5) I would like to recommend a useful idea (but I do not know if it is possible), it is about possibility to choose, what type of AI you want to play, if defensive or aggressive AI, the same levels but different style of play, it would be something very Useful to balance the gameplay, sometimes when we have an ally we just want it to defend itself and defend us, but not to destroy only the enemy, for example, something like Age of Mithology.
Thanks for reading I will comment more observations and possible errors with pleasure for more factions.

#4 Nerevar42

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 07:44 PM

Thanks for the support, I was not sure if I was the only one to have these reservations about the new AI. I'm guess I'm the not-that-skilled BFME player that complains about difficulty, but I really think the new AI is great : the new protected bases, the flanking strategies, the other fortress when it has enough resources ! It's just that the AI is way too strong and overly buffed in low levels (for example I just saw on a Besiege map that my ally had circles of R harvesting around his R buildings that had a radius, like, only the third of mines, and he still got two times more R than me, that's goddamn cheating at this point :p ). By the way, new edit for the bugs on Besiege maps.

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