4 replies to this topic

[Agandaur2404]

One thing that's been bothering me for some time is how it is to be the Nazgul. I know they're the slaves of the One Ring, but how much of their past identities are left in them? And do they have any leftovers of the free will they once had?

 

For example the Witch - King. As a Nazgul he was the king of Angmar, and that required a lot of management with logistics, economy, commanding an army and stuff like that. Many important decisions he had to make in order to have a country function properly. I wonder whether it worked like a scripted computer program (like AI in BFME ), so that he could do only what a programmer (Sauron) coded in him to function, or maybe he had some sort of authonomy and worked according to his own mind, as long as it did not contradict the will of his master. Same questions applies to hunting Frodo, attack on Gondor etc.

 

I personally often imagine the minds of the Nazgul somewhat similar to that of Gollum, but much more enslaved to the Ring (through the Nine Rings). So they're still autonomous and have some leftovers of their past identities inside (though probably even less than Gollum has), but are unable to act against Sauron, even if they don't like him (similar to how Gollum couldn't allow Frodo to destroy his Precious, even though a part of him knew it's a good idea). The difference is that Gollum is in no way loyal to Sauron (but he is to his Ring) while the Nazgul are the most faithful servants of the Dark Lord, but I think it has something to do with the way the Nine Rings are supposed to work (they were made to enslave, while the One was made to rule).

 

But this is just my personal opinion, not canonical in any way. That's why I'm interested to know what do you think of this. Maybe someone knows more on the matter or has also some interesting opinions? Other than that, I wish you all good day and a happy new year! 

Edited by Agandaur2404, 29 December 2020 - 11:39 AM.

[Elvenlord]

I believe they are merely extensions of Sauron's will, they have none of their own. They have the ability to reason, and have their own fears as shown in their fear of fire, but I don't think they would do anything Sauron would not also do in the same circumstances.

[NewErr]

Nevertheless the case of Witch-King of Angmar is very intriguing, if the Nazgul were merely some extensions then he doesn't really get much credit for destroying Arnor.

[Agandaur2404]

Nevertheless the case of Witch-King of Angmar is very intriguing, if the Nazgul were merely some extensions then he doesn't really get much credit for destroying Arnor.

Exactly, it's hard to imagine someone as powerful as the Witch - King as just an extension of Sauron, even though it is partially true. But he must've had some power of his own too, as we're told the Nine were great kings of men, not some randoms.

[Sire_Faramir]

Hello there!

 

In my view Nazguls were not "mere extension of Sauron". These could be maybe the trolls or whatever "creature" that was "created" by Morgoth and Sauron, but since they couldn't create life (only Eru can, not valars) was just a puppet. However this is debated because orcs seems to come from elves and trolls and dragons, that seems to have been created from scratch by Morgoth, behave pretty independently in some situations (think of Smaug, the Hobbit's trolls, and all the orcs when they actually speak): maybe there are various kinds with various origins? Or they behave like beasts with no free will, but still separeted from the dark lord (like "programmed robots" instead of "remote controlled drones")?.

Anyway back to our topic thats surely is not the case of the Nazguls, that were actual humans, but corrupted and enslaved. I agree with Agandur2404: separate entities that maybe even hate Sauron, but the 9 rings make them slaves like Gollum.

 

Also i think they must have had some personal abilities: is frequently stated that the Witch King was the mightiest and smartest of Sauron's Captains, and that his strategic/commanding ability (as well as the extreme fear he brought to everyone on the battelfield) was crucial in (almost) entering Minas Tirith just 5 days after starting the attack to cross the Anduin. Is also implied that killing the Witch king was a big blow to the army of Mordor. If all of that was just Sauron power and strategy projected through the Witch-king, Eowyn would not have obtained a relevant victory: Sauron could have just started live-streaming orders and spells by the mouth of Nazgul#2. However is also stated by Gandalf if i remember correctly that the strenght of Sauron acted as a... multiplicator of their strenght, and that the Nine would have been far more terrible if Sauron had took back the Ring, just as they became almost nothing when the Ring was destroyed.

Edited by Sire_Faramir, 26 April 2023 - 02:26 PM.