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Woodcutter Command Point Number


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#1 Helper01

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Posted 01 May 2021 - 09:17 PM

I've noticed, to my chagrin on a number of occasions, that when building armies for evil factions with lumbermills that my late game stage army will be far smaller than it should be, maybe around a few troops and a troll. This is due in large part to figuring out, to my horror, that if too many wood cutters/lumbermills are built that they eat up substantial command point limit! But I've never encountered this issue in the vanilla game. In that, their individual number is 2; whereas in AOTR 6.1 it's 4. This has made a considerably detrimental difference in attempting to harvest resources and balancing the creation of an army. I realize I could hold back on the construction of lumber mills and wood cutters, of course; but I still fail to see the purpose of such a drastic change that makes such a big difference, especially when playing on bigger maps or long form games, like sieges of fortresses where resources are so critical...but armies seem to be more important. Is part of the reason of this increase in population number to prevent turtling on resources so much...? A balance issue to prevent evil factions from spamming too heavy too fast? I'm honestly unsure of what's going on with this change.

 

 



#2 Mathijs

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 08:42 PM

The reason we did this is because Lumber Mills can be extremely strong. It's a cap on their usefulness to balance them out.


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#3 Helper01

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 12:46 AM

I'm assuming you mean "strong" in the sense of economy boost? In which case, quite right! Its insane how many resources can be acquired from them--but at the cost of speed. You guys obviously know more about those sorts of details. But having playing ROTWK for so long, it never seemed to be an issue, as far as I've been able to tell. What precisely are you referring to in terms of balance? Have you guys observed a general imbalance in resource production speed for evil factions that I'm not seeing?

 

In terms of their usefulness, in terms of how many lumbermills and woodcutters to build, perhaps settle for one or two mills in strategic areas and add a few more woodcutters than usual, and when the trees are gone from said areas demolish the mills and build more elsewhere, moving the woodcutters there? It seems like such a pain in the neck! I guess I'm just still at a loss as to how this new adjustment works for AOTR, given my play style in ROTWK. Resource gathering seems so much less fun now.... But I'm willing to roll with it if I could see the argument you're presenting. I really love the work you guys are doing, and I'm always eager to learn more about the decisions you guys make, but sometimes I come across certain decisions like this that make me scratch my head! ROTWK has such a fluid system of resource production balanced with unit production for evil factions that seems too hampered by the doubled increase in CP number for woodcutters. I never once had an issue with having to balance them out in ROTWK, or even give a second thought to woodcutters stealing away too much CP, even on large maps played with just a handful of players going full defense or turtle mode for a long form game. But now I feel quite slowed, indeed, even on smaller maps where combat is tighter and more focused and competitive. I get the sense the change in CP is for the competitive feel, but in the end it feels backwards, in some ways, and not so much a refinement. Maybe I just still need to adjust and work it out on my own....

 

Further thoughts to elaborate?



#4 Pestum

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 01:05 PM

The only problem i have with those goblins are the unlimited area of work. If they collect all trees in the vecinity they go north to south all the way gatering wood. Yesterday i went crazy with lumbermills on a desert map and at some point  i noted my army was small like more heroes than sqauds. Looking on the map i found no reason for that but later on i see them reunited on the far north with a single tree (My base was in bottom south). Is easy to over build lumbermills and hard to track the cp invested on them.

 

The problem comes when you need to replace the workers. How many i need to replace? 3 had been killed? 1? 8? So i train 5 because i see no goblin around the lumbermill. When you realize you have 80 cp invested on economy for no reason.

Maybe make those goblins work like a squad (horde), limit the area of work or make the lumbermill show how many workers are working in there like 5/5.

 

What i do is make no more than 4 lumbermills and none on maps with little to no trees.


Edited by Pestum, 10 May 2021 - 01:07 PM.


#5 Helper01

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 03:54 PM

I guess another way to potentially compensate for this discordant feeling of balance would be increasing the CP limit. I hadn't thought of that option until today. It's not something I ever use, preferring the default. All the same, preferring the default, I think my argument still stands, so I'd love to know a bit more from the devs on their ideas for this and how best to work around this issue, in general.






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