57 replies to this topic

[Banshee]

Actually, Gore had the majority of the votes (few more than Bush according to what was revealed few days after the election) O.o... however, he gave up after recount, so no, Bush was not elected democratically and saying that the people of your country elected him is an insult to your democracy. His brother cheated to give him the presidency.


And, if you take my opinion as an insult, I'm trully sorry for you, but... YES, Bush is a tyrant!

If he was a tyrant, you would see many changes. You would see everyone getting conscripted into the military, you would see the lack of an economy.

- Yes, I see that. Many people joined the military forces with this Iraq war and the economy of your country is going bad... improved a bit recently, because inflation decreased, but your country is loosing about 450 billions per year or more... while Clinton days was much better... the other numbers improved a bit recently, but they were better before Bush...

[Deathblow Luc]

if theres anything to blame, its the electoral college (which perhaps may alter the desire of the majority, since its members are limited to x per state, majorities are local, which means that there can be a majority that votes for the opposition, and the minority will still be elected because it won in more states, with less votes).

Thats about the only thing im proud my country doesnt have anymore, and in which i can say our electoral system is superior to USAs, heh.

The fact that electoral system is collegiate, doesnt mean it isnt democracy, since the collegiates are still democratically elected. However, they are a distortion on the peoples intentions, since their election is closed to states, and majorities margin fluctuates a lot. Which is the reason why ourselves dropped that system ages ago, and if im not mistaken so did Brazil (Its horrible not to be taught the history of your continent in college...)

[Daeda]

US ellection System just sux. it all like choose one of the 2 guys you like the most. The one who gets a lil more than half of the people backing him will be the most powerfull person in the world.

Democracy my ass. democracy should be when people really have effect on their politics.

Spence if you say we should not blame the people but their politics and in the mean time you say the US has the best deomcracy around you are really talking shit.

i dont feel like typing a lot as ComJ allready pointed out my point of view. If you want mine read his comment

[Natus]

I said nothing about your countries people, but you fail to see Bush for the war monger he is. I said I dont care for your country, all I care for is what you said about Britain. As far as im concerned the US can continue its "War On Terrorism", just dont make UK troops and civilians die for your lie. I dont give a shit about America, I care about those dying for Your ideals. Want to go too war, go it alone, dont drag others in. You have the military power and finances to deal with it yourself, dont include others in you bullshit vendettas.

Fen, your an arrogant idiot to think Peace cant work, your a arrogant blind fool. Peace through power... what a disgusting cliche'. War creates strife and pain, and what do you know, the recent strife is due to this screwed up excuse of a war. I dont know what makes me sick more, people defending this war, or the numbers of dead in this war. US, British, Civilian, all paid in blood for a lie.

To justify a war is to be a arrogant monster.

Bush is a tyrant, I dont care wether you want to hear it or not.

Hell, I find the US governments recent "Intelligence into Terrorism comical, this is a prime example.

http://www.cnn.com/2...7/19/bush.iran/

So its Iran terrorists are hiding, not Iraq... Well woopsee. Gotta love the intelligence behind the US war machine.

http://www.antiwar.c...?articleid=3063



Oh, heres something else someone showed me I found truly poigniant in the current atmosphere.

http://news.bbc.co.u...948.stm#graphic

Who here wants to make a bet on which country will soon be "Liberated"?

Bottom line, there was zero justification for the recent war. And those who died are nothing to the US government but "Collateral Damage". And this is but a beginning. Lets see how many more smoke screens of wars for freedom and liberation occur. And lets see how many widows weep in the coming years, and lets see how many body bags are sent to their respective homes. All in the name of "Freedom".

Well heres the price of freedom.

http://www.iraqbodyc...t/bodycount.htm

US UK Other* Total Avg Days

897 61 60 1018 2.08 489

Civilian casualties between 11252 and 13213.

Justify those lives lost. Go on. Make me understand why those men, women and children died.

They died for the lies and need for money. Freedom, hah, its taken this long for power to be handed back to the Iraq people. You cannot hide from the facts, people died for the co allitions fake truths. Dossiers of lies, statements that were knew to be untrue.

---------------------------

EDIT: I can already see someone mentioning world war II and a debt for that, and before someone does, that debt was payed in Afghanistan, so before you pull that crap, think again.

[chemical ali]

Yeah I think the US should STOP comparing WW 2 and The War on Terror, completely different. The overall facts are the war has made Britain a bigger target for terrorism. Distabalised the middle east, helped the cause terrorism with pictures of dead women and children making Jihad material on Al-Jazzera let other states such as Iran and Saudi Arabia to get away with human rights abuses and state terror funding. Natus is right, its just the sad fact that is ordianary US people have been told not to belive anything because the puppot masters of Halliburton have their hands up Bush's Arse.

[Daeda]

If America really wanted to end terrorism they should stop supporting palastine and stop trying to rule the world if you ask me.

Us keeps supporting palastine, just because presidents want to be re-elected and the jews are an important link in this no offence at jews, just at israelian politics here)

Instead of supporting this palastine bashing, wich causes the Israel terrorism maybe Us should sue Israel for violation of geneva. But nobody can do anything coz america always veto's israel to safety.

if terrorism in Israel would stop then maybe the arab nations wouldnt be this pissed at the US.

And there wont vbe an organised middle east for the folowing 100 years, so why fear it.

I know it sounds cruel, but maybe that terrorism attack on the us was deserved. They always fight wars where innocent peoples die. Maybe it was time they learned how that feels.

i mean look at the body count of 911. Thats nothing compared to what the US has caused

[MSpencer]

Someone lock this. It's a bunch of idiots who don't know shit about America, and who don't live in America, just flaming the US electoral system and calling the president a dictator.

News flash people, he didn't seize the White House.

[Destroyer]

News flash people, he didn't seize the White House.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Instead, he got other people to do it for him.

News flash MSpencer, I live in America

[Hostile]

I know it sounds cruel, but maybe that terrorism attack on the us was deserved. They always fight wars where innocent peoples die. Maybe it was time they learned how that feels.

i mean look at the body count of 911. Thats nothing compared to what the US has caused

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't feel any death is justified or deserved upon people who didn't commit them. American population does not secure visas under falseness than travel to foreign lands with the hope of blowing people up with the assumtion that they will die also.

I never deserved to have to see 911, drive home here in Wash DC with f-16's flying over. I never deserved to watch the collapse of the Twin Towers. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Should the Sky Tower in NZ be leveled cause they contributed resources to the fight on terrorism? Should the Eiffel Tower be leveled cause they cracked some terrorist heads?

Said once again, let the world be afraid when the US sits back and let's the rest of the world self destruct around it. Than we'd be to blame for not stopping it. We can do no right, so let's do what's right for us. It's not lke anyone appreciates it anyway. All the money we give as grants, BILLIONS to help people, EVEN N Korea would get fuel oil based on the new proposal.

The world lived under the rule of Europe for centuries, did they do any better? Should we let china police the world, that's like making Iran incharge of nuclear inspections!

[Ash]

News Flash to All, wasn't this thread to get people to STOP bashing American PEOPLE!?

All you've done is say things about the government. Again. And Iraq. Again.

Well news flash. What the fuck can Spence do about it? Or Fen? My point is that Americans are tarred with the same brush that ego-maniac Bush is.
So what? They're CLONES now? Oh-kay, Spence I'd be taking offence to the idea that you're somehow related to/look like Bush.

Okay, so Spence might be rather over-zealous in his defence of the country. But hey, his believes aren't necessarily those of the management. Whopee-fuckin do. There are some of the high council of this forum who I don't like. I haven't expressed it to their face, nor would I take up their time with giving them reasons why. But if they don't like my view point if I gave it to them, fine. So be it. Spence doesn't expect you to share his views. He asks you to respect them, at least, and not intentionally get his back up by winding him up with things he's asked you to preferably not say.

As I've said, I've great respect for what America itself is, the feats it's accomplished and the fact that its people are DIFFERENT than those I experience every day in this poxy little shithole. And for two pins I'd say fuck-you to England and pootle on over there, pitch up a goddamn TENT and live poorly ever after, rather than live a decent life here, in a country I hate, surrouded by people I hate, and who hate me back.

I think they've every right to be proud of their country. Perhaps not everything their country has DONE (but hey, every fucking country is guilty of having a black past somewhere down the line. It's just conveniently forgotten. As will all of America's recent transgressions given maybe twenty years when there are more pressing current affairs for the population to whine about), but certainly of what their country IS.

Who is in power is irrelevant. What I say still stands. America DOES have a lot to be proud of. England has lost everything it has ever had pride in. It's a has-been. There. I said it. England USED TO BE the place to be...and sadly too many refugees think it still IS the place to be, but I can assure them it isn't. They are granted far too many freedoms and the place is becoming far too goddamn impossible for the average working-class Brit to do jack shit, since we're buttfucked up to our eyeballs and left out in the mud to squirm. All the while we see those who we welcomed into our country out of pity and the goodness of our ickle bitty British hearts sapping our country dry and why? BECAUSE THEY CAN GET THE FUCK AWAY WITH IT. So face it, Brits, your country is DEAD. DEAD as a can of SPAM.

America meanwhile, as I get back to topic, has grown and flourished. Because it knew to take care of its OWN first. And that's why I applaud it. Its PEOPLE CAN respect it because it's at least done them some good. And I hope one day it might be able to do ME some good, and vice versa.

Now yes, please lock this goddamn thread. It's pissing me off too, and I'm a Brit, not American.

[Beowulf]

Harsh truths create a harsh reality.

I couldn't have said it any better Spiral.

[Natus]

No terrorist attack is deserved, the point I am trying to make is that people die for a lie. And shall continue to die until the arrogant realise the war and future conflicts executed will acheive bloodshed and pain. You cannot justify war. You cannot justify these acts. The dead tell no tales. Maybe we should envy them. As they wont have too see more soldiers fight and die for the US governments lies. A fight for freedom, a war against terrorism, a endless circle of bloodshed. You defend your bullshit. You want this thread locked because of the truth here. Because of the facts laid down of the death tolls, and the proof of the Bush administrations sordid plan.

I dont care what you people think of Britain. Why would I. Its hardly valid, its not exactly biased free is it. I support my country, whatever form it is in, yes, but I still see its deep flaws. And I hope that in the future they shall be fixed. But to see another country lie and defend an act of war, is pathetic in the extremes. Accept your leader is a war monger. I have accepted that my leader is but a puppet on a string by his own devices, and I know he will be removed when the public realise this and it sinks in. You claim peace acheives nothing, well fine, keep your blind fold on.

[Hostile]

God forbid the US ever NOT choose to play a part in world politics. We can just close our borders and such and let you people (the experts) decide what we should do...

[Comrade Kal]

For once, I support Ali. I mean, Spencers argument was a ridiculous thing to do. He talks of the falklands, so, join together everyone.... VIETNAM, VIETNAM, VIETNAAAAMMMM!

At least we won our war. And we didn't torture babies and brainwash our soldiers to hate the colour yellow just for the purposes of war. Anyway, it was about more than an Argy-Bargy over some islands. The people wanted to remain British so we support them. Argentina took theislands maliciously hoping we wouldn't care enough to start a war.

Sadly, for them, we did. You just don't let people take your islands, they're yours, there are people living there, so why shoudl you just let people have them? Vietnam, on the other hand, was absolutely nothing to do with America. They just saw what they thought was an easy chance to stop a bit of communism spreading, and through stubborness got bogged down in a terrible war, sending hundreds of men to certain death for absolutely nothing.

Blair has big teeth. Sigh. OK, he does. You have a huge overinflated sense of importance for you and your country. I know which i'd rather have.

Blair, though... is he really that bad? I agree with the iraq war.... the casualties suffered are minor compared to how many more Saddam could have killed.

I doubt Blair would follow Bush stupidly into a war that wasn't needed. OK, we could have stayed out of Iraq, and even though we've made a bit of a mess of things, it's preferable to Saddams rule.

The truth is, American soldiers don't care who they kill. In the early days of the war, look at the American and British controlled cities. The American ones were falling apart, Americans blowing up civilians. Also, the American tanks were all painted with crude, tasteless slogans. I think the only one I've ever seen on a British tank was 'shoot you, sir', derived from the popular Fast Show sketch.

And in Basra? British playing football with the locals and an aura of relative peace.

Face it. No-one likes America except America. You're tacky, tasteless, hypocritical and arrogant with nothing to be arrogant about.

[Natus]

God forbid the US ever NOT choose to play a part in world politics. We can just close our borders and such and let you people (the experts) decide what we should do...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one is arguing against playing a part on the world stage, its when they control it and force others to follow is when I can see a need for outcry. To claim to be the most powerful nation on earth when your military is led by a tyrant, with a news agency virtually dictated to by the administration, and you are invading needlessly based on forged dossiers of lies and are sending your own troops to die for these things... how can you support a leader who does this? Why would you? For me, seeing the dead Royal Marines troubled me, seeing my countries soldeirs give their lives for the US administrations want for oil... it pains me. It also pained me watching US troops who die, you know why? Because They died for same reason ours did. For a lie. Your own soldiers... die... for a meaningless war... how can you not have a problem with that? Your government forces our troops and yours to die for a lie, and we just follow like lead. Your government forces your countries soldiers to die as well, but you virtually define that as good. To die for a lie, heh, how honourable is that.

Freedom. Something to die for indeed.

A lie. Something of no meaning, yet people die for it.

Halt your blind beleif in the administration and look at it in an unbiased manner. Then, once you have, you might finally see the truth.

[Deathblow Luc]

Lockage.

Read the Battle Room lines.

[Natus]

This is a debate, why lock? Its not insulting, this is truths being laid down, its up to people wether they can accept them or not.

Note* I cant tell if actually locked as IE aint working, but if it isnt, I didnt unlock for record.

[Deathblow Luc]

No it is working, i just delayed some minutes in locking.

See, theres not a humorous ambient here. Battle Room says, you can say whatever you want, but never take things personally. Spence started this thread, and he demanded it closed. If you want to debate, sanely, create a new thread in the Hall of Parliament, leaving out any mean terms you can find, and fine lets argue, but remember that we are not suposed to fight over.