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#1 Hostile

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 01:26 AM

In case people wonder why we are war mongers. I ask any country how they would feel and retaliate after such an event. I lived in Washington DC when it happened. I watched the F-16s flying overhead while stuck in traffic. I thought "Is this Armageddon?"

I'll never forget that day. Maybe you'd understand, maybe not. But I still get choked up when I see pictures. What they say, what they mean. I would think that any countryman would feel that way about their place of origin. The Spanish with Madrid bombing, the bomb in Bali, the Turks, the Russians, the Saudis, and many more.

We aren't war mongers, we were the sleeping giant. No one wants war, few condone it, and less seek it out. But to stand back and do nothing will only result in more of this...

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#2 Banshee

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 03:12 AM

What does Iraq has to do with that? Nothing.
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#3 MSpencer

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 04:51 AM

Your statement was both uncalled for and quite rude. It rivals the person who said 9/11 was deserved. This was a rememberance of the people who died, this isn't a place for a fucking hissyfit about Iraq.

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So this has what to do with Iraq? Nothing, but Iraq sponsored terrorism, and last I checked this wasn't a random explosion caused by a gas leak. It was terrorist attack on the United States of America and it's citizens. Non-combatants were purposely targeted and murdered in cold blood. These people had families, friends, and lives, and the deprivation of that by a selfish terrorist act on behalf of Osama bin Laden and all the governments and paranational entities that support terrorist acts. Murder is justification for action on behalf of the free world. Last I checked, everyone followed us into Afghanistan to remove the oppressive Taliban and to hunt down the murderous al Qaeda network. Iraq has constantly defied the United Nations and the United States, forcing out weapons inspectors, attempting presidential assasinations, committing countless acts of murder and torture, and invading sovereign nations, not to mention performing genocidal acts rivalling those of the Nazi party. Saddam Hussein was stopped, as well as his insane sons. Justice has won out in Iraq, and thus, millions are free of the oppressive regime.

You look at the 10,000 who profited under Saddam Hussein. I look at the 25 million who are now free.

If you want to bring Iraq into this, I suggest you bring bigger guns.

Edited by MSpencer, 26 August 2004 - 05:07 AM.

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#4 Allied General

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:21 AM

this is inapporiate ... it isn't september 11th today, my hearts go out to the families of those russian civilian airliners which recently crashed ...

the terrorism/weapons were not there ... okay he messed with UN but it look like Saddam didn't have much left to fight with. U found him hiding in a hole by a farm.

Why haven't you guys fully restored peace in Iraq and what the hell r u doing in Afghastian?

If 9/11 had never happen, I doubt you would be joining and promoting this "global war"

I don't want to diss americans, 9/11 was and still is a tragedy.

However when your 80 there will still be terrorism, when I am 80 there will still be terrorism and our kids will still have terrorism to fear.

The middle east is unstable and palestines are being persectuted still, they are the dominant population yet isralei refugees moved in, took homes and got back by USA military. I think I would feel resentment too if that happen to my country and u should understand being patriots.

I leave u with those words.
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#5 Hostile

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:50 AM

I don't remember mentioning Iraq here, just that America are not war mongers. No flames here, just rememberance... and that explains why we are in Afganistan. They are also very happy we are there. Different story than perhaps Iraq.

Edited by Hostile, 26 August 2004 - 10:52 AM.


#6 MSpencer

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 12:28 PM

I doubt you'll believe this, but the Palestinians were deprived of their land by the post-WWII BRITISH government, and the UN resolution was spearheaded by BRITAIN.

Terrorism is not going to end, but terrorism will be weakened to the point of no operational capability.

And your use of the word "you" is horribly descriptive. Did we ask for Iraq as the American people? No, but at least we stopped crying about it long ago.
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#7 Ash

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 02:52 PM

'Forced out weapons inspectors'.

Why should one nation be imposed upon by another? I don't care who that nation is. Iraq has never and probably would never have threatened the USA. All the same it should never have fucked with iran and saudi the way it did, but it did. And that war ended twelve years ago.

Afghanistan, fine. Waste the taliban. Annihilate Al Quaeda. I wholeheartedly agree with that, on grounds of the atrocity that was 9/11.


All I see these days is that Bush (who I will still say is a warmonger, regardless of what Hostile, Spence or anyone else says. Because that is my personal belief) is sending more and more good, upstanding Americans to their deaths by keeping them in Iraq. The government has been established. Let them deal with it. It's their problem now. If they get overthrown by Shite Militia, that's their tough shit.

Britain should do the same. Pull out. NOW. Same goes for Afghanistan. I've never heard of a new government set up there, despite the fact the Taliban ran off like girls the nanosecond a shot was fired over there. Whether there was or not, they should just keep out of the Arab World and let them deal with their own goddamn problems. Deal with problems at home. Defend your own country by all means (as you did by taking down Al Quaeda camps in Afghanistan), but now look at the current battle situation. Yes. Let's just take stock of what is currently happening on the ground:

US troops (and British), aren't exactly getting anywhere. Things are turning into a middle-eastern Vietnam. Simple point: We won't completely quell them. Because They Don't Want Us There.
So the sensible thing to do would be to bring in the helis and ship everyone out. Because I see death tolls rising, and the battles continuing to escalate, and for what? For another man's country to get a new government, and for in 3 years down the line for it to collapse and us all be back at square 1?

Nah. Pointless.

And thas the point im trying to make. This war in Iraq was pointless. It solved nothing. It gained nothing except bloodshed and a nice big oil field that is now an inferno, that the Coalition engineers are working furiously to shut down so as they can preserve the precious black gold.

Nobody wants a repeat of 9/11. Nobody. There has only been one person thus far to say they did. And with luck they've been banned. But just because of a Saudi who decided to plot and carry out this terrorist attack, using 7 saudis and the rest Afghans, doth not mean that yet more americans, brits and Iraqis should die for the sake of it.

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Edited by Spiral Dream, 26 August 2004 - 02:57 PM.


#8 Agile

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 12:24 AM

Somehow I doubt Bush wakes up every morning and says, "Wow, wouldn't it be great if we went to war." He probably saw it as necessary, and, correct or incorrect, went with what he saw as correct.

Edited by Agile, 27 August 2004 - 12:26 AM.

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#9 killakanz

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 08:19 AM

I doubt you'll believe this, but the Palestinians were deprived of their land by the post-WWII BRITISH government, and the UN resolution was spearheaded by BRITAIN.

Terrorism is not going to end, but terrorism will be weakened to the point of no operational capability.

And your use of the word "you" is horribly descriptive. Did we ask for Iraq as the American people? No, but at least we stopped crying about it long ago.

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The Palestinians agreed to give up that piece of land for the Isrealis, but then someone *cough*america*cough* sold a shiatload of weapons to the Isrealis. With their new army the Isrealis decided to take the rest of Palestine. That was not Britain's fault.
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#10 Allied General

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:00 AM

Also you strongly agree with isralie policies * ignores road map*

I have never know a president to be so damn agressive and start so many wars ... can't u guys wait? ....

Also terrorism non operation capability? .... if persecution and opression continues where minoritys are segreated they will always be hijackings, sucicide bombers and atroicties, and if they don't come from the middle east they will come from the west or even worst your own country ...

Edited by Allied General, 27 August 2004 - 09:02 AM.

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#11 Ash

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:39 PM

Agile, I never said he did think that. But no sooner was Afghanistan finished with were there talks of moving to Iraq. He didn't even give chance for the dust to settle. As far as I'm aware, those attacks into the Afghan mountains are still continuing, even though we don't hear of it in the news, as it's overshadowed by the battles in Baghdad and Majaf.

#12 Tom

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:48 PM

But no sooner was Afghanistan finished with were there talks of moving to Iraq


Afganistan finished? Its not finished. Its a forgotten war. They still haven't achieved what they went there to do, 3 years on.

#13 Deathblow Luc

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 04:30 PM

Somehow I doubt Bush wakes up every morning and says, "Wow, wouldn't it be great if we went to war." He probably saw it as necessary, and, correct or incorrect, went with what he saw as correct.

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Key is if it was correct for the common good, or a minority good. Thousands died, millions are suffering the consequences. Whenever you take action into international fields, morally youll have to evaluate those that youre not responsible of. And it seems that part was skipped here.

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#14 Beowulf

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 08:55 PM

Why does everything have to be so political? Hostile is trying to advocate remembrance and nothing more. You killed his topic and I hope you're proud of yourselves.

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#15 Deathblow Luc

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:28 PM

Sept 11th is a beter date to post this, in such case...

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#16 MMk4C01

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 11:56 PM

i agree with fen im sick of fighting among my allies...

basicaly my standing..
hideing behind a peace symbol makes u both stupid and a coward...
its not guna protect u...its got big holes in it...

but since when do my word mean anyhting...no one is guna change thier mind..so im just a stupid as all of u fighting each other....
stupid..fighting allies
over a common enemy..one with who is sole belief it that u are "evil" because u are free...
and teach there children u are "evil"...
terrorist are just ppl who take action because we are "evil"
iraq is one our check list...
"any one who supports terrorism" i think is part of the quote bush said after sept. 11
and the nation clapped...
iran..iraq..n. korea..etc...
are we safer to sit around and leave the enemy alone??
behind our peace symbol...useualy for war to end both countries want peace either one victor or not...but when one just wants to kill or be killed u can't leave them alone...peace is only for us...cowards..i though a long time ago i had no right to call any one a coward...
but fuck am i the only one who know if we let up the enmy regroups?
did we all forget vietnam??
did we forget 9/11??
how many soldiers were in the twin towers???
remeber 9/11 any day..it not just use..spain gets bombed..every body can get bombed...as long as we are free and live behind our peace symbol...
i love a licence plat i saw once i forget which sate its motto is "live free or die"
which do u wana do???
iraq doesn't equal terrorism..was on our to do list for about 10 years...
but thye were hideing somehting and we found out...german and french arms...
i used to be proud to have french and german background..i used to love my allies...
im willing to forgive we sold stuff to iran and other places..but we expected 28? hostages back...
we do lots of shit everyone daoes if u admit it or not...
o let not forget russia...


but im guna stop..this is stupid....and i can now be condemned as it....
but what the hell anyways..it not like any ody likes meh no more..just because im american and fight for it...err well support the troops at least...CAP does do anti terror stuffs...but, i guess that makes meh a stupid coward...

Edited by MMk4C01, 27 August 2004 - 11:58 PM.

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#17 Deathblow Luc

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 12:39 AM

Ill put it this way, USA attacked harmless powerless countries. Not the real threats. I still see Iran has ICBMs and North korea has nuclear weapons. Not to mention the black market should be a major focus of attention.

USA attacked the targets it could with the less own losses possible, period. There is no way to get rid of terrorism, other than providing satisfaction, undoable at this rate. The problem with hegemonic powers, is that the more they act, the more those who dont tolerate it will react. There is no way out of the loop, as you cant just eliminate all those who dare oppose that easy. Tell the Roman Empire.

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#18 MMk4C01

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 12:47 AM

i try to consider all points of view..and i do see yours...
anyhting else i promised not to say anymore...
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#19 Beowulf

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 04:08 AM

There is no way out of the loop, as you cant just eliminate all those who dare oppose that easy. Tell the Roman Empire.

One thing though.... They were not the mightiest empire ever to have ruled. The Mongols were and they did crush all who opposed them until they met their downfall when their sense of nationality fell off.

Anyway, getting to back what I said before. Stop making everything a political battle. It's getting to be annoying. You're anti-American, I get the fucking message already. Can you not allow someone to grieve for losses without turning the whole thing into a stupid political debate? Let the fucking thing go. The past is the past; you can't change it. No matter how much you disagree, that doesn't make you right or me right. In short, what's done is done. Live with it.

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#20 Hostile

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 07:21 AM

It doesn't have to be 9/11 for me to remember 9/11. I remember it everyday. I remember it so clearly...

I show up to work and one girl is like "did you hear a plane flew into one of the towers" I was so suprised. We've got the radio on and everyone is listening. Then the second plane hits. Everybody got the goose bumps cause something was really strange. What appeared as an accident now had a feeling of dread.

Then everyone stood around and was speculating what could it be. Than the news break comes on. One of the Towers collapsed. A silent dread filled the space. Literally made one sick in the stomach.

Then news comes...Pentagon hit with another plane. Absolutely surreal. We coudn't believe our ears. We all knew SOMEONE who worked there. Than the plane in PA crashes. Than the second Tower drops.

At that point we called the District manager and said we're all going home. We called our wives and husbands made arrangements and left. Of course the panic had traffic backed up. Then.... a sortie of F-16s fly RIGHT over my head as I looked up at the sky.

All those strange hidden feelings people keep buried about the end of the world surfaced. My mind was on the run. My wife and I ended up at the apartment glued to the TV. Talks of bombs exploding downtown. (but were later mistaken) Another plane was missing (later accounted for)

I can't believe I actually witnessed something that was stranger than fiction. I could only imagine the horror of those in NYC. Those cloeup pictures of people jumping from the WTC. Choosing death over flames.

I hear Bush was in a class room talking with children when the first plane hit. 7 mins went by before he excused himself. I could only imagine what went through his head as the events unfolded.

I can only say, thank God Gore was not President. Any future President should resite his speak in the bathroom mirror regarding 9/11 if they had been the President when it happened.

It appears Bush handled the situation as good as I could have hoped. Iraq was the US saying do, the UN saying you should, and Iraq saying screw you, and us making sure THAT part of the world understands if you want a clash of civilizations. Than you are taking the right steps towards it.

We give 6 billion dollars in military a year to Egypt, yet thier official state run newspapers tear us to shreds. Yet we are still to be compassionate? I believe if you ask the average US citizen. We are coming to a closure on this topic. Maybe we should withdraw from the middle east and let them decay into barbarism.

Of course not, there's that all comsuming thing. OIL. Blasted stuff. Can't wait till I get my fusion drive for my car. Than we could care less if they throw oil cans at each other.

Germany and France will always be our allies. May not always agree, but we all learned the hard way in WWI and WWII. If any country who was our European ally was invaded by outside forces and needed help. I would done the uniform like my grandfathers before me and shed my blood on thier soil without a hesistation.

Would you do the same for America?

Edited by Hostile, 28 August 2004 - 07:33 AM.





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