30 replies to this topic

[Detail]

I do so crave some intellectual stimulus. So come, share your views of the world with I.

We shall start with the end. A far beyond future, where everything that can be thought, has been thought. Every combination of letter and word has been exhausted and nothing new can be born. No new songs, no new images, no new movements, no new moments.
This future will come to be, in a very long time form now. Then what will happen to enrich us from this stagnant pool. Will we raze history, so that we may play it through again. Have we already played through it before and have yet to find the hidden key telling us so. A never ending loop of fresh and stale. Then would the fresh be only a repeat with different actors.

When everything that can be, has been?

[Ash]

That's impossible. It's about as possible as possessing the universe. There will always be a new innovation.

The alternate is that we've already reached that stage. Most of what we already see has been done before in one way, shape or form. Even so, new things appear, new people with vision come about and so the cycle continues..slow as ever.


Besides, you surely aren't telling me that British TV just about mirrors your vision of this future? o_0 that's all fuckin repeats anyway...

[Detail]

You may not be looking far enough ahread. Look beyond the sterotype future and into the darkness.
I don't find it hard to imagain a future where every thing that can be, has been. There must be a limit. We can not go on forever.

[Ash]

They said that about Eastenders. They were right. But it's still going on, lol.

I find the world you describe easy to imagine. But I don't think it's a founded fear.

Besides, if everything has been, would that not be the end of time? If there's nothing left to do, and indeed we have done everything we can do, I would say that's the time we've become extinct as a species.

[Detail]

Or our minds have reached there limit and we can not think of anything new or engineer our minds to be any better.
Maybe the chemicals themselves have a limit to imagination and we would exhaust them. Then we would turn to machines to imagine for us, yet thay must have a limit too.


*is unsure of the Eastenders reference (i watch Neighbours)*

[Ash]

Neighbours is prolly just as bad. Same crap week in week out: X Gets Dumped, Y Sleeps with Z's Girlfriend, Z finds out and shouts at Y. Z's Girlfriend Runs off With Q. You know the drill.

It's only within certain formulas that we will reach an end. One of which being stuff to do with real life. They would have to move into various distinct realms of fantasy and perhaps even deeper than that to really continue.
People invent things all the time, based upon ideas laid down previously. True originality is a thing hard to come by ALREADY. Most of what we get now is:
Oh, I know let's take this bit from X object, add it to that bit from Y object, put it inside Z object and hey presto we've got a Dyson Dual cyclone (or insert other random invention). Without X Y and Z, the new invention couldn't be born.

As a result, new stuff is born out of old stuff anyway. So an equally poignant would be the question as to what the first 'invention' would've been. Where it all began?

Still, if new is born of old, then that means that either a) everything, technically speaking, is old, or b) we will always find a way to improve upon what we have already done. After all, nobody and nothing is perfect

[Mastermind]

I don't think we will ever reach a state where we will know everything. I believe it was Einstein that said something like "Genius has its limits, stupidity is not so limited." In an infinite (or nearly infinite) universe, it is highly improbable that we will ever reach a point where everything it known. It's just as likely we'll be destroyed long before we reach that state.

[Detail]

Oh, I know let's take this bit from X object, add it to that bit from Y object, put it inside Z object and hey presto we've got a Dyson Dual cyclone (or insert other random invention). Without X Y and Z, the new invention couldn't be born.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are only so many options you can arrange a set of letters. Lets start with A B C:
ABC
ACB
BAC
BCA
CAB
CBA
Then if you imagine this limit on a larger scale, as if it was the human mind. There would still be a limit to all the possible arrangements.

it is highly improbable that we will ever reach a point where everything it known.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not saying everything will be know. I'm suggesting there is a limit to how much we can know. If there is a limit, we will never be able to know everything.

[Mithril]

I think it is possible to reach that state. However, as soon as an observer observes this state, his influence will change the phenomena into something imperfect. Yes, this is the observer effect. And yes, I think we have already reached that state. As soon as we observe something, however, it has changed - we do not know how much it has changed but it has. Technically speaking, we cannot know the position and velocity of any given particle simultaneously, because as soon as we observe the particles they will already have changed one of those properties.

It may be speculated that it is the observer's thoughts that change the phenomena, as it could not be "the factor of Random" itself. Another Einstein quote:

"I don't think God is playing dices with us"

[AdmiralGT]

There may only be 6 ways to arrange the letters A, B, C. But then you can add D, E, F etc. and it doesnt end when you get to Z. You could continually add a letter forever even if it doesnt exist right now. Most minds cant comprehend something they dont know about. Before Franklin noone thought of Electricity existing so they didnt know about it, everybody who doesnt know this site exits doesnt know about it and never will until they are told. Its impossible for everyone to know everything, you would have to live infinitely long to be told everything. Individually we know very little, some of us know more about one thing than another, but when we pool our knowledge we know a lot more. The only limit on how much we can know is how long we can live for. To you your brain will already know everything until someone tells you something new. If your brain can reach a limit on how much it knows, surely it can only read a limited amount of material, do a certain amount of sums, talk to a certain amount of people?

And Mithril, technically its position and momentum (which is dependent on velocity) and we can only measure the product of them to a finite value (h bar, h/2*Pi)

[Mithril]

And Mithril, technically its position and momentum (which is dependent on velocity) and we can only measure the product of them to a finite value (h bar, h/2*Pi)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes - we can only measure them to a finite value. Since we are only measuring it is entirely possible that there is "more" beyond that. As far as I know, we cannot say since we haven't really got the gist* of it yet.




*Theory of Everything, TOE, unified field theory, whatever you may call it

[Natus]

Reality will continue, but our minds we become blunt. Our cranium is disapating and rotting anyway, with each TV advertisment, with each peice of pointless information given to us. We absorb the chaff of life, never beggining to take in the wheat. Existance will exist until it is physicly extinsuished, mentally, it shant cease to exist, it will rather degrade. It is already. People lament the path trying to find a meaning to their lives, instead following a path that is conveniantly given along the way. A possible Shakespeare becomes but a banker, a Monet becomes a shop assistant. We are already lost to the failing standards of humanity.

[Detail]

Your talking of humanities growing indifference, but who cares?
Well, i do. That's why Revora is 'creative' and not 'games'.
Though i'm going to work in an office and not have time to write my screenplays

[Natus]

The point is to realise your going to write them, and make that realisation a reality. That would atleast be a step towards preservation of the self.

[Ash]

You try following your inner hidden talent if you don't know what that talent is, or even if it exists. Not everyone out there is a possible Shakespeare or Monet. Some simply lack any real aptitude. Is it just those select few who manage to discover their gifts, therefore, that are able to preserve themselves?

Nonetheless I do agree that there is no encouragement to pursue your talents. Today's world is too much oriented on responsibility and bullshit to really even accommodate those who want to do well for themselves. There are a million barriers holding you back. It's as though the human world sets you up to fail.
And, as Natus says, that's why humanity stagnates.

[Mig Eater]

At some point there will come a time were every thing has been done or seen it is inevitable but as mastermind said humanity probably wont be around to see that day

At the moment humanity has come to a slow point in its development, ppl these days are to content with their life (or so they think) to try anything new. There is a small amount out of the several billion ppl on this planet that do want to push the boundaries tho but Its impossible for so few to do so much, this part in are development is going to take some time to get threw. I blame the way society has developed over the last 50 years with every one in a false reality of that we have reached are limits when in truth we are far from it but because of ppls stupidity to blindly except modern society, we are stuck in a never-ending loop

On the note of hidden talent I don’t think talent is something you are born with or is hidden with in you, its something you have to work hard at. All the great artists, musicians, scientists, etc of are time didn’t have hidden talent but spent most of there life doing what made them famous. The phase “you can do anything you put your mind to” is very true. Going back to the issue with modern society, not many ppl really want to put there mind to anything any more, I mean who wants to invent the next big thing if your happy watching TV & eating fast food all day

[AdmiralGT]

At some point there will come a time were every thing has been done or seen it is inevitable but as mastermind said humanity probably wont be around to see that day

At the moment humanity has come to a slow point in its development, ppl these days are to content with their life (or so they think) to try anything new. There is a small amount out of the several billion ppl on this planet that do want to push the boundaries tho but Its impossible for so few to do so much, this part in are development is going to take some time to get threw. I blame the way society has developed over the last 50 years with every one in a false reality of that we have reached are limits when in truth we are far from it but because of ppls stupidity to blindly except modern society, we are stuck in a never-ending loop.

Im not sure how you can say there will be a time when everything has been done. People never could have imagined that computers would have existed 100 years ago, TV's, radio's, the internet, electricity. Something new will always be discovered. The universe is thought to be forever expanding, so if it continually expands there will always be something to discover, something new to make. I dont think you can say humanity has reached a slow point in development. There are so many more discoveries and thesis made each year than there used to be, just none are on the same scale as Newton's Laws or Einsteins theory of relativity. String theory, Particle Physics are all being worked on. A new collider is being built hoping to find the Higgs Boson. You think humanity is at a dull point because you dont hear about it. Neither did anyone when Newton came up with his Law's or Einstein discovered relativity. And there has always been a small minority of people who have worked on expanding our knowledge of chemistry/physics/biology. We have more these days than ever before with the advent of universities and a better education system, you just never heard of the billions of people who didnt discover things.

I think the knowledge of humanity will forever expand, someone will always be trying something new, something will always be discovered, if we didnt we would end the evolutionary process. Remember that in thousands of years time humans will unlikely be the same as they are now, but they will still most likely be humans or a derivation of them.

[Mig Eater]

Your looking a thousands years or so in to the future I’m thinking a few million-billion-trillion years in the future

[AdmiralGT]

So?

Humanity will still evolve over millions/billions/trillions of years (as long as the universe lasts that long, noone actually knows). Why can it only evolve over a 1000 years and not 1 million?

Edited by AdmiralGT, 01 November 2004 - 11:43 AM.

[MSpencer]

Detail, if you're bored, you can research quantum mechanics and string theory, and just start typing.

In addition, the human race shouldn't be so arrogant as to think it will live past tomorrow.

Edited by MSpencer, 01 November 2004 - 11:45 AM.