30 replies to this topic

[Mig Eater]

So?

Humanity will still evolve over millions/billions/trillions of years (as long as the universe lasts that long, noone actually knows). Why can it only evolve over a 1000 years and not 1 million?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The argument here is not really when but more of if & the fact is I don’t think the universe is infinite & that every thing has to end at some point. You on the other hand think opposite & there is nothing either of us can do to persuade each other to think other wise as neither of us have any facts to back are opines up.

Now can we at least agree to disagree on this?

[AdmiralGT]

Since there is no actual proof that the universe will forever expand then yes. (Although it is the most likely)

[Ash]

The universe was still the universe before the big bang. Just because the galaxies and et cetera didn't exist before that doesn't mean the universe didn't. The universe is the same size as it's ever been. Just now there's lots of stuff inside it as opposed to just a mass of hydrogen gas.
Personally I don't see why scientists care whether the stuff formed from the big bang will expand forever or crunch back to nothing. Won't affect us in any way, shape or form. Nor will it affect any other life form, but I digress.

By the very definition of humanity it is to forever strive to some form of perfection. We are never content with what we have and will always want to do better. Technically we have only ourselves to fear on this planet. And each one of us wants to better ourselves. Just because someone has a menial job makes them no more or less important than the guy at the top. The guy at the top could not BE at the top without all his employees to do the work for him. As a result the business runs as a collective.
While the man at the bottom may lack whatever it was the guy at the top has, be it funding, intelligence, ambition, idea, or whatever, they often still seek to better themselves in some way or other, even if it is insignificant to the rest of the world.
Those that do not are often known to be unhappy in their lives, and do not lead fulfilling ones. (A very subjective opinion I know, but hey. What is this about if not expressing an opinion).
And so, since humanity is dedicated to making itself better, grander, bigger, faster, stronger, etc., I think that even if Detail's limit arrives, humanity will strive to think up new things, even if that means taking a leaf from the history book in order to do so.

That is, if we are not extinct or do not blow ourselves up first.

Edited by Spiral Dream, 01 November 2004 - 05:58 PM.

[Detail]

Personally I don't see why scientists care whether the stuff formed from the big bang  will expand forever or crunch back to nothing. Won't affect us in any way, shape or form. Nor will it affect any other life form, but I digress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because those scientists have not yet become indifferent

In addition, the human race shouldn't be so arrogant as to think it will live past tomorrow.

Harsh. Most people expect tomorrow.
I do. I'm not one of those people who only live for today, as it's not practical when the next day does arrive.
As with everything, balance is required.

[Ash]

Indifferent? Why should they care? it makes no sense.

I live for both today and tomorrow. I don't automatically assume tomorrow will arrive, but I live in preparation for it. That means living for today. If tomorrow does not arrive, then I did all I could.

[Detail]

indifferent = don't care


You have balance, like i said

[Ash]

Thanks

And what I meant was, why on Earth SHOULD they care? Whoa, it's gonna make a big difference to people's lives if they know the stuff from the big bang will collapse in on itself in several trillennia.
Won't bring world peace, cure world hunger, wipe out disease or tell us why people ever visit Little Chef

(sorry, I like to get humour in there when I can )

[AdmiralGT]

It might not matter to us and our generation, but it might matter to future generations as to whats going to happen to the universe. Only a few hundred years ago we didnt even realise that Earth is guarenteed not to be here in a few billion years time, but unless someone found out and told us we wouldnt know unless we tried to find out ourselves. By finding out now we can tell future generations whats going to happen. Thats how humanity learns, people pass on there knowledge from generation to generation. Consider Global Warming. We know its occuring but only because someone recorded what it used to be like, if we have no reference frame it would just appear normal. And imagine if you were living 100 years or so in the future and the UK was suddenly sent into an ice age because of the melting ice caps, you'd be pretty ticked off if people had found out about it and not said. Research isnt all about understanding for the now, its for understanding for the future.

[DaX]

Maybe so but i would'nt really give a shit if i found out that the universe was goin to collapse in on its self. As far as im concerned there's nothin you could do about it so why worry about it in the first place.

[Ash]

It might not matter to us and our generation, but it might matter to future generations as to whats going to happen to the universe.

Whatever happens won't affect us in our lifetime, or even in the lifetime of any human walking the earth. It will take billions of years for the big-bang products to even slow down.

Only a few hundred years ago we didnt even realise that Earth is guarenteed not to be here in a few billion years time, but unless someone found out and told us we wouldnt know unless we tried to find out ourselves. By finding out now we can tell future generations whats going to happen. Thats how humanity learns, people pass on there knowledge from generation to generation.

That's true. But what is the merit of knowing that Earth will be destroyed several billion years from now? It won't enrich our lives in any way, shape or form. I sincerely doubt any human being will be alive to see the end of the world.

Consider Global Warming. We know its occuring but only because someone recorded what it used to be like, if we have no reference frame it would just appear normal. And imagine if you were living 100 years or so in the future and the UK was suddenly sent into an ice age because of the melting ice caps, you'd be pretty ticked off if people had found out about it and not said. Research isnt all about understanding for the now, its for understanding for the future.

I agree. That's an important issue. However, I'd agree with D on this matter, that a balance should be put in place. Things of merit in the human sphere of existence should be put above and beyond things that will not affect us or this planet. 100 years is the forseeable future. It is within the lifetimes of our children and our children's children.
1,000,000,000,000 years is quite a long way off. Knowing that the world will die then is not really relevant to today's lifestyle. And sure as hell we wouldn't be the cause of the destruction, so as DaX so simply put it:

there's nothin you could do about it so why worry about it in the first place.

[AdmiralGT]

The world may not be here in 1,000,000,000 years but you cant say humanity wont be. It might continue to exist, it might not. People work on the principal that humanity will exist in however many years in the future. And we only know it will be a few billion years but what if it were to end in say 10 years. Its just worked out that it wont but the same effort would go into it to find out. You can never know the answer to a question unless someone asks it.

An asteroid could theoretically destroy the entire world at any minute. I'd be pretty happy if I knew when an asteroid was going to hit us so that Earth could do something about it. Yes you have to strike a balance but to different people the balance is different. You presume humanity wont be here then, not all of us presume that. Some of us think the work of Astrophysics is very useful, some of us dont. Someone said you cant guarentee tomorrow being there, nor can you guarentee it not being there. Its the same for humanity, you cant presume humanity will be here when the Universe ends, nor can you presume it wont.