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Major Update **Jan04/2005**


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#1 thudo

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 04:15 PM

MAJOR UPDATE:

Okiedokes.. I had some serious developments last nite on the DoW Skirmish AI front and its all good!

AI Accomplishments sofar:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
o Researches all tech tree now (one at a time to minimize penalty to economy - this was such a bugger to fix but now it works!)

o Upgrades all LPs to Tier2 and *now* all Defensive Turrets to Tier1 (working to update ORK Banners as 2 upgrades are needed)

o Reinforces all Broken Squads and generally reinforces to the max (in other words - be ready for mass assaults!)

o Builds all major buildings INSIDE the main base *but* will build outside on expansions if needed. (never understood why the AI was coded to build, say, energy reactors on the front? Seemed real dumb - keep it in the main base away from harm..)

o Builds 3 Generators in the first minute (hated the fact the AI would be out energy that early in the game)

o Builds up to 5 Defensive Turrets inside main base (3 initially to stop rushers)

o SM/CSM HQs now upgrade to Tier2. For ORK, now upgrades Fortress to Tier1!

o SM AI build Librarians and Apothecaries and uses them pretty damn well. hehehe..

More as I get them done but..

AI Initatives required:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
o How to build defensive turrets + 1-2 mines on expansions especially on LPs near the front-line?

o How to create a random script that only upgrades a certain % of those LPs and defensive turrets? LPs I can live with at Tier2 but its pretty dumb to update all turrets to Tier1 anti-vehicle especially since DoW is half about infantry!

o How to create a team of 2 builders to either help build buildings OR be on repair duty to heal damaged buildings?

o Prevent game from crashing when my troops get near to the Mines he's built? Wierd.. (still testing this one!)

o Ensure Large Energy Reactor construction + 3-4 defense placements around it (its an important structure after all!)

o When relic is captured and fortified I would like to have AI build more defensive turrets around it than usual due to its significance for getting uber-units.

Other longer term objectives:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
o Rebuilding destroyed Base Defenses at either original main base or second emergency base!

o If enough surplus cash allows, will create a secondary HQ including minor unit production buildings + defensive turrets all built after Tier3 HQ is achieved at main base.

o Better troop combinations (this may not be a problem as the AI generally is decent at selecting squad-level weapon upgrades).

o Troop dancing (is this even possible?!?)

o Awareness and Effective use of Cover (also remotely possible?!?)

o Better acknowledgement of threats against fellow allied players (will come to the rescue more effectively when an ally, like me, is under heavy attack!)

o Fix Assassinate - gets his commander unit killed by associating it with a squad (should be easy to fix! heheh)

o CA and T&H winning conditions - AI is not aggressive enough in conquering and keeping map points.

===

Generally, I am *very* pleased the way things are going especially now that I've fleshed out all the tech trees of all 4 civs and now they will research the whole tree fine now. Wheww!

Still.. I would love some help in the outstanding issues above! If I can get many of those done I will go beta REAL FAST! Whats great about the LUA scripts/code is that its easy to port it over from one civ to another.

If any of the fellow coders could help in the above THAT WOULD BE BEYOND SPECTACULAR! Thanks all!
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#2 thudo

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 10:33 AM

To keep this updated!

o Currently trying to get ORK Fortress to research Addon to go to Tier1 HQ.

o Trying to get Space Marines Dreadnought to upgrade to Auto and Twin LasCannons - apparently only the Hellfire has this info for the AI to use so trying to fix this in the unitstats.ai.

o Added Fleet of Foot to the Eldar for use with all their applicable infantry- may change that as the overuse of the Fleet of Foot upgrade would make the Eldar infantry all move too fast. Will look into this.

Thanks all! :grin:
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#3 Mithril

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 11:38 AM

Thudo, have you done some advertising? I don't know about the DoW community, but I do not believe many DoW players visit this forum.
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#4 thudo

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 05:48 PM

Mithril! Nice hearing from you! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Currently, this forum is acting as a secondary location to the DoW Relic forums. I plan to make this home base in the future to supersede the initial advertising on the main Relic forums. Thanks for your concern bud!
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#5 Grey

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 04:06 AM

Hello, allow me to introduce myself.
Im a 25 year old programmer from Denmark (where I live).
I ran into this place somehow and might be interested in contributing (eventually).
Although I dont know Lua, how hard can it be :grin:
I read your ideas and I like most of them, although Im curious about a few:

* Builds up to 5 Defensive Turrets inside main base (3 initially to stop rushers)
Is that a good idea? Wouldnt the AI waste too many resources on turrents and not enough on troops. I never ever build any turrets at home since I need a big army out securing strategy points. If the AI build many base turrets it wouldnt be able to effectively defend its strategy point - as I see it. :)
Btw. I've never seen the AI build (IIRC) ANY turrets anywhere, execpt upgrading LP to tier 1 of course. So that value of 3 seems broken (I dont know if he builds turrets on easy/normal/hard, since I usually play harder/insane)

* Builds 3 Generators in the first minute
Again, is that a good idea? Thats well over 300r blown. What good are 3 generators if the enemy rushes? :)
My strategy is usually 1 power in the start. Get some units out to counter any wouldbe rushes, and then build another power or two (if the enemys strategy permits it).

*Fix Assassinate - gets his commander unit killed by associating it with a squad
I think this is an excellent strategy. By associating your commander to a squad, chances of the commander getting hit is slim. I've played a lot of 2v2 (human vs AI) skirmishes with a friend against 2 Harder AIs. Generally the AI does a good job and it DOES try to retreat the squad his commander is in, when things arent going to well for it, but this is mainly where it fails. The direction in which it tries to reteat is usually just "as-far-away-from-the-enemy-as-possible" with no regard to where is the most safe. So usually thats just "the opposite" direction of you... :p

I like the rest of your ideas a lot! ;)
That "build-power-next-to-your-SP's"-wierdness really needs to get fixed :-)

Edited by Grey, 15 January 2005 - 04:13 AM.


#6 thudo

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 05:20 PM

* Builds up to 5 Defensive Turrets inside main base (3 initially to stop rushers)
Is that a good idea? Wouldnt the AI waste too many resources on turrents and not enough on troops. I never ever build any turrets at home since I need a big army out securing strategy points. If the AI build many base turrets it wouldnt be able to effectively defend its strategy point - as I see it. :grin:
Btw. I've never seen the AI build (IIRC) ANY turrets anywhere, execpt upgrading LP to tier 1 of course. So that value of 3 seems broken (I dont know if he builds turrets on easy/normal/hard, since I usually play harder/insane)


Actually. I have the AI building 3 base turrets to start up to 5 at Tier2 then updating them to Tier1 (Tier2 for Ork). This is key as the AI will now survive rushes (hell.. I build turrets in my base just incase I'm attacked real early as a safety net) I also have the AI researching and, as you pointed out, building 3 quick generators and u know what: THE AI IS ACTUALLY HARDER THIS WAY? Why? He has even more resources to play with as in mid-late game he is unreal! No cheating whatsoever since he has energy coming in now quickly (helps build tier2/3 units) + when he researches the whole tech tree he gets those req/energy upgrades + his units have been teched up! AI uses his resource system very efficiently! There is hardly an impact, heck.. I would be so bold to say its now RIGHTEOUSLY HARD! You'll see when it goes beta. Ouch!

Had a 2vs2 last nite and it was bru-frick'n-tal! AI suffered from un-upgraded units before + many other "retardations".. no more.. AND IT SHOWS!

*Fix Assassinate - gets his commander unit killed by associating it with a squad I think this is an excellent strategy. By associating your commander to a squad, chances of the commander getting hit is slim. I've played a lot of 2v2 (human vs AI) skirmishes with a friend against 2 Harder AIs. Generally the AI does a good job and it DOES try to retreat the squad his commander is in, when things arent going to well for it, but this is mainly where it fails. The direction in which it tries to reteat is usually just "as-far-away-from-the-enemy-as-possible" with no regard to where is the most safe. So usually thats just "the opposite" direction of you... :p


Something to fix thats for sure but then again what logic is there in exposing a Commander unit to combat in Assassinate Game Mode? Just hide 'em somewhere on the map preferrably behind tons of turrets and units. Let the enemy TRY and kill him behind so much. I guess it could go both ways. Randomizing the AI so it can decide whether to or not attach to a squad would be highly replayable.

That "build-power-next-to-your-SP's"-wierdness really needs to get fixed :-)


Already has been to a degree. Just need to have the AI fortify LPs with more 1-2 turrets as insurance and a unit-producing building.

Thanks for your interest. Plan to make the experience "quite" memorable!
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#7 Guest_Pete H_*

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 07:42 PM

Hey dude, this is all looking good, can't wait for it. At the moment I've got a couple of computers set up in my house for direct play, but the AI is really letting us down. It'd be great to have some really engaging AI to play instead of the constant rushing, idiot behaviour and other stupidity that shows up in practically every game.

Keep it up!

#8 Grey

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 08:05 PM

Something to fix thats for sure but then again what logic is there in exposing a Commander unit to combat in Assassinate Game Mode? Just hide 'em somewhere on the map preferrably behind tons of turrets and units. Let the enemy TRY and kill him behind so much. I guess it could go both ways. Randomizing the AI so it can decide whether to or not attach to a squad would be highly replayable.


I probably should have mentioned that I never play Assassinate as the ONLY objective, usually combine it with Annihilate and maybe some others.
You really NEED your commander early in the game IMO. If you leave him behind, the enemy shows up with his commander + 1 maybe 2 squads of ranged. You have no chance if his commander engages your troops in melee. :p

#9 thudo

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 08:46 PM

I probably should have mentioned that I never play Assassinate as the ONLY objective, usually combine it with Annihilate and maybe some others.
You really NEED your commander early in the game IMO. If you leave him behind, the enemy shows up with his commander + 1 maybe 2 squads of ranged. You have no chance if his commander engages your troops in melee. :grin:


True enough.. I had complains back since DoW was released that the AI should not attach Commanders to squads using Assassinate. Makes them exposed in combat where they should be hidden. No sense in putting a game-losing character on the battlefront where it only takes his/her death to win. Then again, yea it also makes sense to have them "in play" as they could be crucial against another Commander. Still.. if the AI sends out one squad with a Commander attached then its likely game over. Still will need more tweaking. :p
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