17 replies to this topic

[LarkinVB]

Its obvious that I have something different in mind than thudo and that me and giskard have different styles too. Therefore I will put the latest of my code online for you to evaluate. Its open source so take whatever you want. Of course it includes stuff from thudo/corsix and I won't claim personal copyrights at all. I'm still supporting thudos mod and will not officially release anything in competition.


Current realease features three AI types (rusher/standard/defender) but they are NOT optimized.Its a first draft. I only use/test the advanced scripts (harder/insane AI).

Hope you will find it usefull.

Download here

Edited by LarkinVB, 20 March 2005 - 09:35 PM.

[thudo]

Thanks Larkin for all your support! Yer a pivotal member of the team and we value your committment to the DoW AI endeavour. We'll have plenty of fun times ahead when the community starts incorporating yours, giskard, Corsix, quiet_man and my changes into their faction mods.

I'll be testing your AI tonight.

I'm doing some last minute write ups so I can get Corsix to do the final package!

Edited by thudo, 23 February 2005 - 09:56 PM.

[LarkinVB]

You are welcome thudo. Keep your child warm and release whatever you think is worth. I'm a bit egocentrik as I released a game and think I can evaluate the AI code. Don't take it personal (no one shall do) as I want to add something if possible. Nevertheless I will point to shortcomings in your/giskards code as I feel capable to do it better .

I'm a poor coder without occupation so I jump on the AI mod train.

EDIT: My problem is that I feel competent to lead a team to good success and have difficulties to be 'just' a member. I try to learn that now .

Edited by LarkinVB, 23 February 2005 - 10:35 PM.

[quiet_man]

@LarkinVB

hmm, as my contribution to this is currently around 0
aeeh, I would say you did ~1******************************% more

just a small "thank you" from my side

quiet_man

[LarkinVB]

I've uploaded my latest version with AI combined attacks, generators at LPs behind base and turrets at LPs more likely facing enemies. Copy and paste whatever you like.

[thudo]

Thanks Larkin.. will quickly test those! Looking brillant as always!

[giskard]

Wise man sticking to 3 at the start.

Its a bitch ballancing 5 at every difficulty level, especially when each personality has 3 files that need editing.

Thats 4 x 5 x 3 = 60 files to edit just make finish off the difficulty levels.

ARGH!

Giskard

[thudo]

As mentioned to Giskard..

I agree with your point about having too many personalities will cause complications HOWEVER, why don't we just relegate them to ADVANCED SKILL? Pro Players will be the beneficiaries of the AI project because the "vanilla one" is too easy for them. We need not concentrate on EASY, STANDARD, or HARD. No bother. Those are lesser difficulties.

That simply means more personalities for ADVANCED SKILL thus more attention for pro-players who will only being involved in HARDER and INSANE.

I think we can all agree that 90% will only play @ HARDER or INSANE difficulties. HARD and below is really not needed although we can just use a single default template. ADVANCED should get all the goodies!

[giskard]

Hay i like to play on Hard

Besides, the defaults for hard or low suck, so a little tweaking at those is needed. However, now ive done that, and striped out some of the fun at lower levels i do tend to agree.

Once the early difficulties get the basics they become a little harder anyway. Controling how hard becomes a problem if you go too far and theres a limit to how many times you can use a 1 next to unit in an army list before you repeat your self.

Giskard

[thudo]

My only concern is: Why bother with lower settings? Larkin and I, as least I believe, that people only grab new AIs just for the hardest settings. The lower ones are basically just semi-tweaked versions of their original counterparts. I can't play on anything lower than Harder now - its just too easy + I know everyone will just go for HARDER+ anyway as even INSANE was too easy for people.

Still.. we could compromise: limit the personalities on the lower difficulties (EASY and STANDARD should get a couple or none at all - they are basically a carbon copy of the original AI anyway + if people want that easy an AI they just run the old vanilla one) and bump up the harder ones. The hard the AI setting, the more unpredictable. Plus, its simply less work. Imagine doing 5 templates per difficulty then troubleshooting that each time a revision or new faction mod is introduced. Ugh..

I guess it boils down to: people will download an AI not for anything less than the HARDEST possible AI or why not just use the original? We could tweak the lower ones but personalities need not be worried about - the added difficulty in tweaking all of that would be a logistical hell. Keep it simple.. keep it focused to the reason for the project: AI has smart, as hard as possible but easy for us to post-support.

[giskard]

Usually id agree with you completely.

However, since Relics AI doesnt build a nice selection of units at any level there are some that will download an AI just to see the AI use those units.

Also the opersite is sometimes true. People wont download an AI because they think it makes the game too hard.

I always warn those people off so i dont get a flood of complaints about the AI being too tough.

Giskard

[thudo]

I think people are looking for a challenge but only at the higher levels as the lower ones have been all done before. I mean, we could do all 4 AI difficulties but the work in tweaking each one.. esshh.. Possible though. I just feel EASY and STANDARD should be what their namesakes are.. HARDER AND ADVANCED could be tweaked for good measure.

[LarkinVB]

According to BigFoot GetPathingDistance() will be influenced by enemies blocking the path. It is unsuited for evaluating the real shortest distance when not called at game start.

Therefore I calculate all distances from bases to bases and bases to strategy points at gamestart and write them to a table. Afterwards access to GetShortestPathingDistance(), my substitution function is a) correct and b) faster and c) it will allow to locate those strategy points unaccessable on foot which have to be caped by jumpers for t&h.

I also added a small random deviation (0 - 100) for FindClosestEnemyPlayer() so the AI won't always choose enemy A (distance 480) while B (distance 500) isn't much more distant.

You find the code at top of this thread.

Edited by LarkinVB, 02 March 2005 - 08:03 AM.

[LarkinVB]

Added better code for building big generators.

[LarkinVB]

Added lots of missing abilities from fleet of foot to machine spirit and uploaded my latest build. Other changes include forcing the AI to attack if its army hits a certain size, dynamically insert spider/reaper aspect stone to initial build queue if enemy is ork/marine, trying to extract damaged ranged vehicles from combat for a second run, let broken troops recover more morale before they are send back into the fray, let troops first finish a fight near a strat point before they try a forward capture and lots of other small changes.

Download link at top.

Edited by LarkinVB, 05 April 2005 - 06:13 AM.

[LarkinVB]

Made some success in simple infantry dancing. Check some ork vs eldar games and you will see. Finished all abilities, now grav plats are really quick :-) !

[thudo]

Thanks Valthemu.. Larkin's offering is an excellent version of our v1.1 as it evolves! Progress is definitely being made to make the DoW Skirmish AI experience all the more "frustrating"! heheh