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AI Personalities are In! Need Comments..


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#1 thudo

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 05:26 PM

You can download the latest AI off the FTP as per usual **ONLY FOR TEAM MEMBERS** mind you. I fixed all the issues with some of the personalities not working (had an 8player FFA on HARD and HARDER last nite and it was just insane!!!!!). Every personality should work now with no issues.

I'm waiting to hear from Larkin regarding the self.info.turret_tolerance variable I tried to use in cpu_manager.ai under "function CpuManager:GetDefensiveBuildingsCostAt( player, pos, tolerance )". If I use the line in this function: cost = cost + self.info.turret_tolerance and then in any of the buildbasestrategyinfo.ai I create a line "turret_tolerance = 150," but when I build turrets against the enemy the game stops with an AI execution error. More details in the last thread on this forum.

Now.. I'm trying to further make each one distinct so I need comments on the work done. I want each one to have pros and cons..

Criteria for each AI personality seems to be broken down this way..

o stop_attack_rating = (Retreats to save troops OR is suidical and sacrifices squads)
o attack_rating = (whether to be a constant rusher OR hold back until it has a big force)
o ETA = (whether to build up to more advanced units quickly rather than wait)
o turret_tolerance = (when this works, will make AI decide whether it loves attacking enemy turrets or holds back a little)
o Turrets = (decides whether to turtle up behind a huge fireline or leave itself defending using units)
o ResearchOrder = (whether to fully tech or tech what it needs for its purposes)
o SquadLimits = (how to specify what kind of units to use OR to mass only one kind)
o BuildOrderStrategyInfo (initial build base list - go defensive, go as a fast rusher [infantry/vehicles], go for resources..).

Thanks to the excellent work Giskard did with working out the script system, the personalities, as mentioned, work fab with no issues whatsoever. I'd love to have team input regarding the AI personalities. I need to develop criteria for each personality like so:

o Standard (techer | standard units | retreats average | average base/LP defenses)
o Aggressor (low techer | Supreme Infantry/Vehicle Rusher | retreats less often | low base/LP defenses)
o Defender (techer | units for defense and minor attacking / retreats often / supreme base/LP defenses)
o Sieger (techer | vehicle/artillary-minded with troops as escorts | retreats less often | low base/LP defenses)
o Platoon (medium techer | Infantry-minded with minor vehicle support | retreats average | average base/LP defenses).

When you download the latest.. let me know any areas that could be improved or allowed to further personalize each AI trait. Thanks all!

Edited by thudo, 05 March 2005 - 05:35 PM.

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#2 LarkinVB

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 07:38 PM

defender starts attacking with 300 and stops with 200 ? Doesn't make much sense to me. 100 is the value of a single space marine.

#3 thudo

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 10:24 PM

Defender represents the Turtler in certain people. He won't commit to an attack until certain he has a large force and then when assaulted will hold back behind a line to recoup. Its a personality after all. Sure it can be changed but right now we're experimenting. Can suggest something better for a Defender AI? I know such a personality may not fit into your idea for DoW.. its just represents some of the people I've played with and who have sometimes won the game. Grrr.. :grin:
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#4 LarkinVB

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 09:37 AM

I don't want to attack the concept of defender (I know you want em in :-)) I just wanted to point that the defender will switch from attack to retreat on minimal (300-200=100) loss. Think about this : The defender already has problems building a big army due to wasted req on turrets. If he gets his big army (at +300 compared to enemy) and attacks he will retreat very soon afterwards (at +200 compared to enemy) while loosing a single marine. I'd suggest to keep a difference of at least 300 between attack rating and stop attack rating.

Another problem will be if the AI has to fight a fully develloped enemy. I saw AIs ideling around (a problem which is there from start) as they could never reach the needed attack_rating. If my army is worth 10000 points and the AI can only build 9000 due to personality limits it will never attack ;-)

Therefore I'd suggest some code to let it attack regardless of pro rated values while it fields a certain value of army cost.

#5 giskard

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 03:03 PM

I sense a lot of testing will be needed here to get it right Thudo.

BTW, the multiple personalities really shine when you team up 2 or more AIs. If ones an infantry AI and the others a tank AI you can see a pretty decent force of well ballanced units approaching the playing.

If you guys really want to make it shine, try adding code that checks what personality the other AI is using and chose second AI personalitiy to compliment the first.

That would really be cool.

Giskard

#6 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 04:05 PM

Guess why I asked for inter AI communication. It's not possible as AI B is not aware of any choice of AI A. Therefore you can only 'fake' it by using same random seed for both.

#7 thudo

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 04:56 PM

I'll tweak the Defender AI as per Larkin's recommendations. I mean, DoW is **NOT a game to win by Turtling** although I wish it were (would add more interesting tactics) but thats the game design.

It'll be a challenge to make it have that "Defender feel" while also giving it an agressive tone. Hopefully, in time, we'll all have some input into ironing it out OR perhaps ditching Defender all together. :(
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#8 giskard

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Posted 07 March 2005 - 09:10 AM

Larkin: its a cool idea.

Hope you get it working.

Thudo: actually DOW is what we make of it. The default game is not a turtle game thats for sure. Personally id like all styles of play to be represented, if possible within the same 8 way game.

It would be coolness it self if the player could actually choose the AI he wanted to play against too :)

I guess thats a UI file. Not looked.

Giskard

Edited by giskard, 07 March 2005 - 09:11 AM.


#9 quiet_man

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 08:56 PM

ok, running now, need to reinsert the engineers :unsure:

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Edited by quiet_man, 08 March 2005 - 10:01 PM.


#10 thudo

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 11:23 PM

Quiet_man: what was it you were working on?
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#11 quiet_man

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 08:15 PM

@thudo

downloaded your latest version for testing, but the AI did nothing, seams I catched a version were you had out commended the engineers at "attackplan.ai", after I put them back everything worked!?

Also at the latest version the game is running "bumpy" at the beginning
once the battle is running it disappears

maybe the new distance routines have an issue with "empty" map?

quiet_man

#12 thudo

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 09:40 PM

AI should be working fine. And yeaa I have noticed that slight slowdown after 10-20seconds of play but then it disappears soon afterwards. Likely the distance routines but we've played 3vs3 MP and its been fine.
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