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#1 Squig

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:40 PM

Hi
I hope there isn't a thread on this on page 2 or so, but since the Beta isn't that old I didn't look there :-)
As postet in another game I played with/against roo a game. It was 4 player map, can't recall the name (with a big wall in the middle), roo as Cadia, me as Tau.
Apart from him scouting my base we both build up two pretty big armies (like 30+ infantrymen/drones and 10-15 tanks each) and than started the attack. The tanks all died pretty soon, while the infantry lived quite long, that seemed a bit strange to me. later on he lost like 30 infantryman at one Tau turret, that seems to be very strong, I'd say to strong, too. The tanks at the other hand seem to make to less of an impact against infantry imho. Would it be possible to make their attacks more effective aginst infantry? it's like a hammerhead needs more than a minute to bring 10 imperial soldiers down, and that seemed quite strange. Also, compared to their costs, the weapon drones and the Tau defense towers are to effective for their price compared to devilfish and Hammerhead 8I think I used the Krisis wrong or bought to few of them, they were quite effective vs infatry, but not as effective as the drones).
Anyways, I hope that this helps you a bit, and I can't wait to see the next version released!
regards
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#2 Slye_Fox

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:55 PM

tau have the stongest firepower in the 40k universe, but thet're crud in close combat

#3 Juggernaut

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 11:22 PM

You've hit some of the known problems :) We're working on to correct this.
Atm the IG tanks are weak, the Tau railgun is highly unsuited to kill troops.
It will be toned down and (hopefully) receive either the 2 missing burstcannons or smartmissiles for anti-infantry use.
IG tanks will get better armorvalues.

The Turrets and Bunkers are pretty unbalanced atm, which also will be corrected in one of the next versions ;)

Just keep in mind that it's an Infantry based mod, not vehicle based though, we're trying to bring the focus to that in the future by making the tanks more as supportvehicles with long buildtimes and high cost.


hope this informs y'all a bit on what's currently cooking in our team ^^
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#4 =][= Inquisitor_Sevrius =][=

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 02:28 AM

@ Juggernaut:
Balancing does seem to be a huge issue in this mod, one which I am eager to fix if at all possible. The status of the mod as an infantry-based really doesnt seem a viable excuse for tanks being relatively weak, high in price with a long build time IMHO.

One method I would suggest in order to detract players away from armoured forces is to place a limit on how many vechicles of each type a player can build. That way, you can have your kick**** tanks but not devote all your energy towards a wicked armoured wall of death.

As for balancing issues, I can balance the game through .ini files (that's my forte, and the basis of many of my own game fixes) so if you would like me to expand my services towards .ini coding then just give me the word. Like most things I do, it doesnt take me long to code it but time restraints are a ***** these days. Even with time restraints, the codes would be done in a matter of days ^^-thats what you get from Master Coders.

Cheers, hope to hear from you soon.
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#5 Slye_Fox

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 10:01 AM

what about the imperial guard armoured companies?

#6 killakanz

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 10:22 AM

You say that it's an infantry based mod, so...
- where's the orcs?
- IG are very tank happy, bad choice?
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#7 Boomerang Python

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 11:26 AM

It's coming It's coming, patience young ones!
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#8 Squig

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 11:57 AM

It's coming It's coming, patience young ones!

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Hi
Infantry based, hmm, maybe you should say infantry focused, that sounds better imho (and suits the tabletop better, too imho... epic would be tank(=warmachine-)-focussed imho
BUt in generall I agree that the infantry should have the more important role on the battlefield. Erm what do you guys think about putting more ressource things in the middle f the map so the fight is going on around them, just like in DoW (I know you don't want to clone DoW, but it works sort of that everyone is trying to get the ress. spots in the middle and the fight is since the beginning about them... just defense doesn't work, and that's how a 40k game should be, don't you think?

#9 hobbes-99

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 12:35 PM

Righto,

ok, first up we're going back to the generals style resourcing. So the derricks (40k style) will be in the centre of the map to fight over.

We've also got 3 new infantry choices PER FACTION!! in development. Thats a total of 9 new units.

And we're working on generals promotions two of which are well underway, a SM drop pod attack and and IG Valkyrie troop insertion.

Plus that the builder units will start with the capture building upgrade and standard infantry will have an optional upgrade, meaning that your troops will have more use and you will HAVE to take some with you whereever you go. The reason I say this is cos Termies and Kasrkin are 2 of the 9 new units. And if the troops get no use you'd just have an army of elites... well wouldn't you... I would :)

As far as it goes,
New skins finished are
- IG Medic
- IG sniper
- IG kasrkin
- IG Valk (this is for the troop insertion, we won't have full air power by next release)

I'm now working on the SM Terminator and the SM Apothecary.

I've purposefully not listed the other units til they're done incase of any changes ;)

#10 Slye_Fox

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 12:50 PM

what about IG armoured companys?

#11 hobbes-99

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 01:35 PM

heh, well... I take it you mean the full on armoured companies. Well... Bad news is that I doubt they'll make it in.

There is however a Steel Legion Faction thats in development. However we're just focusing on these 3 factions for now. We get them up to a level where everyones going WOWOWOWOWOW!!!

and then finish off the Steel Legion, Necrons etc.

An all tank army just isn't really in our plans right now and I doubt it will be.

#12 Torn

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 01:38 PM

And also get some SM Chapters sorted... MMMMMM SPACE WOLVES :)

#13 hobbes-99

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 01:38 PM

Indeed!

#14 Squig

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 01:43 PM

Why don't you just let the steel legion be able to build a chimera+troops inside at their infantry recruitment building. If someone fells like it tanks only would be possible then :-)
And I want (Dark) Eldar! ;-)
(Harlequin would be nice, too ;-) )

Edited by Squig, 30 April 2005 - 01:45 PM.


#15 hobbes-99

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 02:20 PM

hehe, well we have got some eldar stuff, so you may see some in a campaign, but a complete faction is a way off like... boo.

#16 Calamity_Jones

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 02:34 PM

leave the balancing shitzna to me, t'wil lall be good in t'end

I'm re jigging all of the balancing.

I'll put an announcement out with the next release stating the focus of the mod is infantry. I'll also put up a list of tactics... Tanks can be deadly (ill make sure of it) but are at the mercy of intantry, thus they must be used carefully, you simply cannot build a huge army of vehicles and expect to survive :)

the map with a wall is The Ultimate Gate ;)
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#17 Squig

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 02:39 PM

hehe, well we have got some eldar stuff, so you may see some in a campaign, but a complete faction is a way off like... boo.

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Too bad, I can't sell DoW than :-/ ;-)

#18 Calamity_Jones

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 03:15 PM

sell DOW... sell DOW!!! HERETIC!!! :p
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#19 Major_Gilbear

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 08:01 PM

Although with no AI it is hard to test by one's self, I have come to one conclusion from reading your comments on an infantry-focused mod.

In TT40k, tanks are limited in their use partly because they use up "slots" on the force organisation chart. Tanks are also limited in a more voluntary sense because of their operational effectiveness. Let me explain:



In the TT40k game, there is a lot of terrain that tanks cannot go through, and which slows them down - sometimes even causing them to get stuck. Aside from infantry support (often having guns that are unavailable to infantry, or which have a much greater range), they are mostly used on big open tables so that they can use their speed and armour to make a difference without getting tied up in maneouvres.

If you want to focus players on infantry, why not make most terrain types hamper tanks? That way, tanks will be used more often on bigger open maps or as support instead of as a main assault force on every map. Conversely, infantry would be virtually unaffected (speed and maneouvrability-wise) by most terrain types. This is also something lacking in DOW, where many tanks are pretty godly, especially as the majority of troops are not equipped to deal with them either.

Having a system like this enables you to make vehicle units between each side more different too. Tau hover-vehicles would be less affected by adverse terrain, whilst the Space Marine Dreadnought would have tank-like armour and guns, but infantry speed and mobility - again, just as in the TT40k version.

#20 Calamity_Jones

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 08:57 PM

the problem with generals is that there are 2 types of terrain only... passable and impassible... basically that cannot be done im afraid:P

either nothing can go through or everything can go through... granted, ive made a map that is designed to hinder tanks (deathworld) but its an absolute pain in the arse to make... so its not gonna happen on every map... and it only works due to the extreme complexity of the map:P

i'm making tanks, as you said, longer ranged and able to deal out more damage with their uber guns than troops
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