66 replies to this topic

[Slye_Fox]

slots? what slots?
i've always played with a points limit

[Calamity_Jones]

I think he means things like Heavy Support choices and what-not

like you have so many heavy support 'slots' and so many elites 'slots' etc

[Slye_Fox]

oh, that

Armoured companies follow differant rules

[=][= Inquisitor_Sevrius =][=]

Look, sparks seem to be raging over slots, chrimera's/armoured coys and all that crazy guff/stuff.

Look, at the discretion of the mod members I can envision more armies (i.e. eldar, dark eldar, necrons etc.) but I just dont see armoured companies? Why? Why? Why you may scream?
Look at your basic game of ZH (or C&C:G). What do OwNiNg players do? Build tanks. Hundreds and hundreds of them. An unstoppable wall of iron and steel.
In the w40k universe, although practical and very fun to watch (go you sexy landraider!!!!! go son lol)....it wont work in such a game because people will just power build tanks and maul all the infantry with them.

Now you can see where the guys are coming from. In stories of the w40k universe you usually dont hear of tanks much. Mainly infantry beating the ugly out of each other.
That theory works in both this game and in the w40k universe so it will be understandable to fans of this mod. After all, whats better than millions of infantry slogging each other to death? Nothing, nothing at all.

But, how to stop the lumbering legions of steel, ceramite and admantium you may ask? Its quite simple, if you know how to do it.

There is a Module attributed to the ZH units and C&C:G units such as Colonel Burton, Black Lotus, Jarmen Kell etc called:
MaxSimultaneousOfType 1

E.g. For one techmarine

ArmorSet
Conditions = None
Armor = 3Plus
DamageFX = InfantryDamageFX
End
VisionRange = 100
ShroudClearingRange = 200
BuildCost = 400
BuildTime = 6.0 ;in seconds
CrushableLevel = 0 ;What am I?: 0 = for infantry, 1 = for trees, 2 = general vehicles
CommandSet = UltramarineTechMarineCommandSet
MaxSimultaneousOfType = 1

Copy and paste this code to make it comply with the rest of the model and then set it to a predefined number. There ya go. Restricted use of a unit, then you can stop those charging walls of death.

Also, squig mentioned the possibility of building chrimeras full of guardsmen, well, thats not hard either.
Remember the Troop Crawler in China's Inventory?

China Troop Crawler:

Behavior = TransportContain ModuleTag_05
TransportContains = ChinaInfantryRedguard 8
PassengersAllowedToFire = No
Slots = 8
EnterSound = GarrisonEnter
ExitSound = GarrisonExit
DamagePercentToUnits = 0% ;10%
AllowInsideKindOf = INFANTRY
ExitDelay = 250
NumberOfExitPaths = 1 ; Defaults to 1. Set 0 to not use ExitStart/ExitEnd, set higher than 1 to use ExitStart01-nn/ExitEnd01-nn
GoAggressiveOnExit = Yes ; AI Will tell people to set their mood to Aggressive on exiting
End


There y'ar. Chrimera full of guardsmen would be as simple as this

IG Chrimera:

Behavior = TransportContain ModuleTag_05
TransportContains = IGInfantryGuardsman 10
PassengersAllowedToFire = No
Slots = 10
EnterSound = GarrisonEnter
ExitSound = GarrisonExit
DamagePercentToUnits = 0% ;10%
AllowInsideKindOf = INFANTRY
ExitDelay = 250
NumberOfExitPaths = 1 ; Defaults to 1. Set 0 to not use ExitStart/ExitEnd, set higher than 1 to use ExitStart01-nn/ExitEnd01-nn
GoAggressiveOnExit = Yes ; AI Will tell people to set their mood to Aggressive on exiting
End

Quick, easy modification.
Theres your Steel Legion or Armoured Fist squads sorted ^^.

Tanks should not have to be downgraded to make the game fair...hmph! Tanks make it all the more fun, and are not something to scamp on so your poor infantry can live a few seconds longer

Oh and before I go, the IG medic and SM apothecary sound interesting. How exactly do you plan to equalise the Tau's infantry? Stealth suits? lol.
Remember, for medic units you can code them to be like DOW medics, mobile, kick**** propoganda towers ^^. Interested? Gimme a buzz.

Cheers,
=][= Inquisitor_Sevrius =][=

Edited by =][= Inquisitor_Sevrius =][=, 01 May 2005 - 08:41 AM.

[Torn]

We arn't stupid, we do know how to code...

Max limits on tanks are stupid in this because you can't have a max limit on tanks overall.

We are going to be more clever than putting a simple limit, by doing what Cal said. If we make tanks uber expensive then people will go to infantry more. And having anti tank infantry also helps.

[Squig]

We arn't stupid, we do know how to code...

Max limits on tanks are stupid in this because you can't have a max limit on tanks overall.

We are going to be more clever than putting a simple limit, by doing what Cal said. If we make tanks uber expensive then people will go to infantry more. And having anti tank infantry also helps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only thing I would be afraid about is that it would be easy to make tanks too expensive. And we all know that 40k without tanks is, on a large scale, not too much fun ;-)
But I am confident that you guys will find a way :-)

I like that buying units in their transport thingi though (and I knew it is part of CnC G, that's why I suggested it :-) )

[Boomerang Python]

Look, sparks seem to be raging over slots, chrimera's/armoured coys and all that crazy guff/stuff.

Look, at the discretion of the mod members I can envision more armies (i.e. eldar, dark eldar, necrons etc.) but I just dont see armoured companies? Why? Why? Why you may scream?
Look at your basic game of ZH (or C&C:G). What do OwNiNg players do? Build tanks. Hundreds and hundreds of them. An unstoppable wall of iron and steel.
In the w40k universe, although practical and very fun to watch (go you sexy landraider!!!!! go son lol)....it wont work in such a game because people will just power build tanks and maul all the infantry with them.

Now you can see where the guys are coming from. In stories of the w40k universe you usually dont hear of tanks much. Mainly infantry beating the ugly out of each other.
That theory works in both this game and in the w40k universe so it will be understandable to fans of this mod. After all, whats better than millions of infantry slogging each other to death? Nothing, nothing at all.

But, how to stop the lumbering legions of steel, ceramite and admantium you may ask? Its quite simple, if you know how to do it.

There is a Module attributed to the ZH units and C&C:G units such as Colonel Burton, Black Lotus, Jarmen Kell etc called:
MaxSimultaneousOfType 1

E.g. For one techmarine

ArmorSet
    Conditions      = None
    Armor          = 3Plus
    DamageFX        = InfantryDamageFX
  End
  VisionRange = 100
  ShroudClearingRange = 200
  BuildCost      = 400
  BuildTime      = 6.0          ;in seconds   
  CrushableLevel = 0  ;What am I?:        0 = for infantry, 1 = for trees, 2 = general vehicles
  CommandSet    = UltramarineTechMarineCommandSet
MaxSimultaneousOfType = 1

Copy and paste this code to make it comply with the rest of the model and then set it to a predefined number. There ya go. Restricted use of a unit, then you can stop those charging walls of death.

Also, squig mentioned the possibility of building chrimeras full of guardsmen, well, thats not hard either.
Remember the Troop Crawler in China's Inventory?

  China Troop Crawler:

Behavior = TransportContain  ModuleTag_05
    TransportContains = ChinaInfantryRedguard 8
    PassengersAllowedToFire = No
    Slots            = 8
    EnterSound          = GarrisonEnter
    ExitSound          = GarrisonExit
    DamagePercentToUnits = 0% ;10%
    AllowInsideKindOf  = INFANTRY
    ExitDelay = 250
    NumberOfExitPaths = 1 ; Defaults to 1.  Set 0 to not use ExitStart/ExitEnd, set higher than 1 to use ExitStart01-nn/ExitEnd01-nn
    GoAggressiveOnExit = Yes ; AI Will tell people to set their mood to Aggressive on exiting
End


There y'ar. Chrimera full of guardsmen would be as simple as this

IG Chrimera:

  Behavior = TransportContain  ModuleTag_05
    TransportContains = IGInfantryGuardsman 10
    PassengersAllowedToFire = No
    Slots            = 10
    EnterSound          = GarrisonEnter
    ExitSound          = GarrisonExit
    DamagePercentToUnits = 0% ;10%
    AllowInsideKindOf  = INFANTRY
    ExitDelay = 250
    NumberOfExitPaths = 1 ; Defaults to 1.  Set 0 to not use ExitStart/ExitEnd, set higher than 1 to use ExitStart01-nn/ExitEnd01-nn
    GoAggressiveOnExit = Yes ; AI Will tell people to set their mood to Aggressive on exiting
End

Quick, easy modification.
Theres your Steel Legion or Armoured Fist squads sorted ^^.

Tanks should not have to be downgraded to make the game fair...hmph! Tanks make it all the more fun, and are not something to scamp on so your poor infantry can live a few seconds longer

Oh and before I go, the IG medic and SM apothecary sound interesting. How exactly do you plan to equalise the Tau's infantry? Stealth suits? lol.
Remember, for medic units you can code them to be like DOW medics, mobile, kick**** propoganda towers ^^. Interested? Gimme a buzz.

Cheers,
=][= Inquisitor_Sevrius =][=

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't like the way you declare us idiots, we do know all this shit but we have turned most of it down, and we do know how to do a fucking easy medic man, go hang yourself next time..

We arent stupid sod-offs you know, if we were then the marines would've been pink (well some are) and you wouldnt have the first beta by now, but it wouldve been released like in 20 years..

[=][= Inquisitor_Sevrius =][=]

Hey,
I thought you guys hadnt considered the above yet. Guess Ill keep my mouth shut next time then eh lol.
Ill just stick to my AI then, like Ive been told before

=][= Sevrius =][=

[Torn]

How would you know what we had and hadn't considered? We don't tell everything to you, you know... and yes, just stick to the AI.

Edited by tornado2099, 01 May 2005 - 11:16 AM.

[Major_Gilbear]

1) By "Slots" in my post above, I mean the choice options that you are given by the FO charts. The standard being 2 HQ, 3 Elites, 6 Basic 3 Fast & 3 Heavy "slots". Sorry for any confusion caused, but re-reading my post, it still seems pretty clear. Oh well <shrugs>.

2) Again, my fault for not knowing the code determining terrain very thoroughly, but in my defence, I'd assumed that Gens did have different terrain types (like EVERY other CnC game so far, and all the Dune games too) . Maybe you could give vehciles severely limited turning rates, so that they are fast and good at base-assaulting, but other wise hard to maneouver around the map? Also in such a system, turreted/sponsoned vehicle weapons would find it easier to engage moving opponents, despite the relative unmaneouvrability of the vehicles themselves.

3) Inquisitor_Sevrius, the buildlimits applied to units are not a global total, but rather a unit-specific limit (obviously). So a limit of say, 6 Leman Russ tanks doesn't stop players building other vehicles. And such a system doesn't allow the proportion of vehicles:infantry to be regulated either. As the 40k team pointed out, they do actually know how to code (what do you think they've been doing for two years? You think they couldn't look at the Troop Crawler code and figure out preloaded inf?), so maybe limit yourself to more general suggestions instead of posting reams of pointless code next time?
Oh, and you don't need to add your "tag" to every post you make: there is a signature feature for that, and we can all see your name over your avatar too... .

[BlackLegion]

I dont see what was so offensive about what Sevrius wrote

[Boomerang Python]

Back to topic people!

[Torn]

Oh, and you don't need to add your "tag" to every post you make: there is a signature feature for that, and we can all see your name over your avatar too... .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lol, I was gonna mention that

[BlackLegion]

I like Boomerang Python's segestion "Back to topic people!"

[Calamity_Jones]

I dont think limiting a tanks maneuverability is very sensible.. .since they are the most maneuverable vehicles o nthe planet (turning circle of 0)

basically I think its better to leave them as they are, make them essential for cracking bases, and deadly if supported by troops...

I'll also make heavy and spec weapon squads a little more pricy so people dont just mass build missile launch troops after all.. .devastator marines are more expensive than normal ones

and people... for the love of god we don't have to burn sevrius at the stake! lets try and be nice! no more flaming sevrius for trying to be helpful... and no more quoting code and things plz sevrius, talk to people about it instead of quoting the actual code.

[Juggernaut]

Well, a limitation on certain units, including tanks would be good.

As (i hope) most of you guys know from the fluff for example the LeMan Russ Vanquisher is becoming a very rare tank, so a limit of no more then a few tanks buildable as max. number would put a slight focus on that.
Same would go for the Landraiders for example.
But not just ALL tank/vehicle units. Only the most rare ones would be nice IMHO.
It would simply prevent players from swamping an enemy with the toughest and rares tankunits available.

just my thoughts on this part of the balance.

Further on, tanks should just be at the troops mercy if they are not supported, a normal marine with bolter would'nt do much damage on a tank, but one with a rocket launcher could rip one apart with ease..
This is the way we have it atm if i'm not mistaken.

[Boomerang Python]

we could limit the warfactory to 1 too

[Calamity_Jones]

hmm...

suppose that'd work better.. limiting the no. of war facs sounds better to me

[Juggernaut]

both then