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#41 Silent_Killa

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Posted 12 June 2005 - 05:54 AM

If someone were to go down the street yelling something like that, you could, and I would, walk over there and respond, exersizing my freedom of speach. Now, if they decided to hit me, or made any threats towards me, I'd break the guys jaw.

I used to lose my cool a lot when it came to this sort of thing. You know what it got me? Arrested. I look back, and people tell me I had every right, it never even went to court, not put on record. I still regret it. I silenced someone because they had a different view than my own, their view was wrong, they knew the facts, and they still refused to change, society will destroy them, I don't need to do it.

We need free speach. No free speach means a totalitarian state. Anybody remember how those worked out?
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#42 MSpencer

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Posted 12 June 2005 - 07:35 AM

I assure you that someone here will defend totalitarianism.
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#43 Tom

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Posted 12 June 2005 - 10:16 AM

I defend totalitarianism!! Well maybe not. I'm just stated that i don't believe people should have the right to bully others and act rascist just because freedom of speech allows them too. I think thats bollacks. You can say whatever you like as long as its not affect anyone elses freedom and anyone elses free will, if you get what i mean. I believe rascism should be illegal. If people want to whine about that, let them whine, its pathetic, why would anyone want to listen to them because they can;t call people fucking niggers.

#44 MSpencer

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 01:12 AM

There's some virtue in a government run by the military or a strong centralized government. If the United States were run by the military, things would get done a lot more quickly and efficiently. Of course, as a rule, the people would suffer.
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#45 Silent_Killa

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 05:01 AM

the thing is making a comment doesn't impeed on anyones freedom. If it was something that was causing any real harm to someone, then yes, it should be outlawed.

Dictatorships are always more efficient, however, they usualy collapse due to lack of support. Catch 22.
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#46 Verrückt

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 11:29 PM

I assure you that someone here will defend totalitarianism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Oh yeah got to love the world's most beutiful people :p

Anyone who openly supports communist (Authoritarian) or Facist governments im sure their IP's will be a nice addition to the Ban list.

Dictatorship's may be more effective but think about all the innocent people that must die, and usually a scapegoat race along with it.

Hitler: Jews
Mussolini: Ethopians
Stalin: Ukranians

Im sure their power and effectivness are undeniable but the hanus things they did more than throw their accomplishments to hell.

Hitler- Brought Germany out of a depression, regained land that has belonged to Germany for hundreds of years. ( or the German states I should say )

Mussolini- Made the trains run on time :) and cocnstructed a massive :p 15 plane airforce. But he did industrialize Italy but did a Shatty job.

Stalin- Industrialized Russia

Aside from those things they pretty much left a shithole in history, and the commies till this day are fucking western civilization.

Edited by RoadReaction, 15 June 2005 - 11:31 PM.

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#47 Comrade Kal

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 02:21 PM

Communism does not automatically equal totalitarianism. That's completely false, and if you want freedom of speech maybe you should shut up about banning people because of their political beliefs.
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#48 Ash

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 05:22 PM

Shush, Kal! Don't say that thing about banning people in the same context as freedom of speech! (Not while banshee's in earshot anyway :ninja:)

I'm totally in favour of freedom of speech. Just the person should be ready to get what he deserves if he says something out of turn, eg racist, offensive, etc.

Just as you have the right to call me a pompous, ignorant, uneducated lower-class, foul-mouthed little bastard, I have the right to react to that how I will. Which would probably be with some form of insult, or with a thump. As much as they're free to say what they want, people should be free to react to that how they want.

Which is why if I were a cop I'd have turned a blind eye to people bricking the KKK. Especially if I were a black cop.

#49 Silent_Killa

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 05:31 PM

that's how I used to think really... just got me into a lot of trouble is all

Kal, communism might not automatically equal totalitarianism, but it will almost always lead to it.
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#50 Comrade Kal

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 08:57 PM

I think if 'freedom of speech' can be interpreted as 'the right to insult someone of another religion'' then 'the freedom to walk down the street' could be interpreted as 'the right to stab someone of another religion'
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#51 Silent_Killa

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 12:51 AM

sticks and stones... come on people, develop thicker skin.

If you insult someone, it doesn't hurt them. If you stab someone, well, they can't just ignore it. Common sense.
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"Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility." -Sigmund Freud
"Laws: We know what they are, and what they are worth! They are spider webs for the rich and mighty, steel chains for the poor and weak, fishing nets in the hands of the government." -Pierre Joseph Proudhon
"You sleep safe in your beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm." -George Orwell

#52 F-G

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 12:53 AM

Welll... do you know that freedom ends where the other people's freedom starts? It should be applied to speech.

#53 Hostile

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 01:49 AM

I think if 'freedom of speech' can be interpreted as 'the right to insult someone of another religion'' then 'the freedom to walk down the street' could be interpreted as 'the right to stab someone of another religion'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm trying to do my best to understand your statement.

Freedom of speech does not allow defamtion of character. You can openly say I disagree with a religion, but you cannot say this religion eats babies when they don't. So freedom of speech is not absolute.

Certainly freedom of speech has nothing to do with committing physical violence upoon another human. How can you confuse the two LK?

And I wonder how it is possible to have people sympathetic to communism despite it's obvios downfalls....

Oh yeah, now I remember there are STILL skin heads in Germany and the US and UK. Funny how those little diseases still fester despite the "appropriate" vaccines. :ninja:

#54 Blodo

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 09:01 AM

What do skinheads have to do with communism? For a fact they are rather racist and chauvinist rather then communist.

Also id wonder how can people be sympathetic to capitalism, since it has downfalls too? Its probably just me but humanity doesnt have a perfect system yet (e.g. one without downfalls) so your argument is null.

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#55 Allied General

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 01:06 PM

theres is no such thing as freedom or speech only speech which is socially acceptable ;)
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#56 NeoPickaze

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 02:37 PM

In 'Freedom of Speech' there is a VERY DEFINED difference between someones actions and their oppinions. I may have oppinions on certain groups, i.e. as an example I may have an intrinsic dislike to ginger-haired people. I am allowed this oppinion, and this oppinion should be respected. However, I am not allowed to abuse my oppinion and act on it.

Also, I 'should' also be entitled to make people aware of why I dislike them, Perhaps its wrong to have qualms about disliking a person based on how they behave OR how they look. We are allowed to have differences with people, we just have to tolerate the differences in a respectful manner.

Disliking how other people look is very natural, it's to do with the preservation of our own genes, and genes similar to ours, and of course all that successful mating etc.

This all applies to governments. Other governments may have other ideals, and who is to say the way the western, east, middle-east, china lives is wrong? If the people who live their have obviously accepted it it's not really our place to interfere. Just as we are allowed to voice our oppinions but NOT to act on them.

Personally, I disagree with living in a 'capitalist' society which exploits everything it possibly can while spoonfeeding its citizens fake freedom. I find it quite ironic I am allowed to post this with 'fake-freedom' but thats exactly what it is.

How free are we really? Our lives are basically, grow, educate, obtain work, have children, die. There is no REAL freedom, we could compare it to the freedom of a spider to build a web somewhere, it can build it where it wants, but it's still going to have to build one... we just have a little more choice througout these phases than perhaps could be offered in other countries (we can choose which channel to watch, which soda to buy, which lane we want to drive in on the motorway - all fantastic choices we get).

Sorry if I wandered off topic and feel free to remove parts of no significance, just thought I'd throw in some my own 'oppinions' in this very interesting thread.

Edited by NeoPickaze, 18 June 2005 - 02:38 PM.


#57 Tom

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 03:54 PM

[quote name='Silent_Killa' date='Jun 18 2005, 01:51 AM']
sticks and stones... come on people, develop thicker skin.

If you insult someone, it doesn't hurt them. If you stab someone, well, they can't just ignore it. Common sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]

Well agreed, obviously, unless your a pathetic moron like many of these thick headed louts who shout "what you say about my mum, i'll fucking batter ya..." ... Yeah...

[quote]Welll... do you know that freedom ends where the other people's freedom starts? It should be applied to speech.[/quote]

Again thats the best logic to abide by imo.

[quote]In 'Freedom of Speech' there is a VERY DEFINED difference between someones actions and their oppinions. I may have oppinions on certain groups, i.e. as an example I may have an intrinsic dislike to ginger-haired people. I am allowed this oppinion, and this oppinion should be respected. However, I am not allowed to abuse my oppinion and act on it. [/quote]

So when it gets to the level of discrimination and acting upon a prejudice it should be banned i guess. Thats what i meant in a different logic of speak ;)

[quote]
Also, I 'should' also be entitled to make people aware of why I dislike them, Perhaps its wrong to have qualms about disliking a person based on how they behave OR how they look. We are allowed to have differences with people, we just have to tolerate the differences in a respectful manner.

Disliking how other people look is very natural, it's to do with the preservation of our own genes, and genes similar to ours, and of course all that successful mating etc.[/quote]

Yeah thats fines but i don't agree with rascism and rascist comments etc, speaking to people, arguing with them, calling them names, whatever stupid thing you wish to do... You know, but when it comes to rascism and insighting hatred then thats a little bit too far.

When had that moron muslim cleric Abu Hamza. He comes to britain, lives off our benefits, gets everything for free because hes a "ethinic minority" but every day, with his free time, whilst millions of hard working tax payers are working so he can have that free time, he leaves his house, rallies a group of muslims and starts preaching bullocks and hatred of Britain and the British people. This guy was taking us for a fucking mug. Eventually he got arrested on blairs new laws, which is a good thing IMO.

[quote]
Personally, I disagree with living in a 'capitalist' society which exploits everything it possibly can while spoonfeeding its citizens fake freedom. I find it quite ironic I am allowed to post this with 'fake-freedom' but thats exactly what it is.

How free are we really? Our lives are basically, grow, educate, obtain work, have children, die. There is no REAL freedom, we could compare it to the freedom of a spider to build a web somewhere, it can build it where it wants, but it's still going to have to build one... we just have a little more choice througout these phases than perhaps could be offered in other countries (we can choose which channel to watch, which soda to buy, which lane we want to drive in on the motorway - all fantastic choices we get).[quote]

Agree, i absolutely agree, but again its the same with all forms of society. Problem is the human population is so large today there must be forms of control, but when it gets to ridiculous limits like, You can't do this and that until your 18, etc. You just want to tell them to fuck off heh.

[quote]
Sorry if I wandered off topic and feel free to remove parts of no significance, just thought I'd throw in some my own 'oppinions' in this very interesting thread.[/quote]

Don't worry, we don't look at "off topic" here, we let our topics evolve and move on, its a good way of keeping them alive and allowing further discussion.

#58 Blodo

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Posted 25 June 2005 - 12:39 AM

I dont know about you guys but everyone fighting for "freedom of speech" couldnt be fighting for something more pointless. What does it give you? The right to yell that e.g. Bush is an idiot? As if anyone would listen to you anyways so there goes your "freedom of speech".

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#59 Shinigami

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Posted 25 June 2005 - 02:02 AM

I dont know about you guys but everyone fighting for "freedom of speech" couldnt be fighting for something more pointless. What does it give you? The right to yell that e.g. Bush is an idiot? As if anyone would listen to you anyways so there goes your "freedom of speech".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Another goddamned moron, eh? If freedom of speech is removed, then the government controls speech. Newspapers and news station could report what the government says, how it says, and citizens could be punished for speaking against the government. Imagine a world where you can be arrested and jailed for calling your leaders idiots, or openly condemning a new law or decision. Now, replace "the government" with "the State". Now, in what environment have we heard about such a scenario being reality? That's right- without freedom of speech, you have a bit of Fascism.

#60 Allied General

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Posted 25 June 2005 - 09:59 AM

but absolute freedom couldn't be tolerated, that would be anarchy
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