Jump to content


Photo

XRML LeechKiller 1.0


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
36 replies to this topic

#21 Legion

Legion

    AHL2mod Admin

  • Banned
  • 1,225 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:HL2 Community Hub
  •  There should be PINK text. :D

Posted 01 July 2005 - 11:03 AM

Whatever. Do what you will.
Posted Image
Made all my userbars myself :D

#22 Blade

Blade

    title available

  • Members
  • 503 posts

Posted 03 July 2005 - 12:21 AM

Coding, the part that can be learned by taking apart someone's mod, can easily be duplicated via reading through tutorials. It is in the graphics where any ripping really occurs. Do you think that Da Vinci would enjoy you taking his Mona Lisa, slightly editing it, and then saying you made it? No, Da Vinci would be pissed. Would the people at D-Day who spent months creating unique terrain, trees, and lighting enjoy you editing it slightly and then saying you made it? No, MigEater and the D-Day staff would be pissed. If someone wants to learn how to create graphics then they will start at the bottom like the rest of us.

\\//,DedmanWalkin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why constantly re-invent the wheel? What your saying is that everyone should have to come up with their own solutions for the same problems? I worked hard along with Mooman and DJBREIT creating parts of the TX and testing them, but I just put it out there for anyone to use in their mod. I've also made and released many other assets (largely from building on and modifying what westwood created) and I have no problems with people using them and making new assets based off them so long as they get released for other people to do the same. I don't understand why people are so protective of their creations (many, if not all, of which are already derivatives of other things that were shared freely with that person), why be so bothered if your mod isn't the only ones to have your trees in it, or your tank? Its not a competition here, you shouldn't be making mods for the glory of it, because beyond the rather geekish circles of RA2 game modding there is no glory to be gained, or fame or whatever. The only thing I agree with is that people are at least mentioned for the work they have contributed to other peoples work so that people who laid the foundations are not forgotten.

#23 Legion

Legion

    AHL2mod Admin

  • Banned
  • 1,225 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:HL2 Community Hub
  •  There should be PINK text. :D

Posted 03 July 2005 - 01:22 AM

It's called originality. If everyone used your work, your mod would no longer be special. :huh:
Posted Image
Made all my userbars myself :D

#24 Blade

Blade

    title available

  • Members
  • 503 posts

Posted 07 July 2005 - 07:53 PM

It's called originality. If everyone used your work, your mod would no longer be special. :sad:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Most mods re-use vast amounts of RA2's content anyhow, if you want to be original, go make your own game engine and assets. Most commercial games that get released are based on only a few game engines and always carry some look or feel over. Most of human innovation is about re-use with a small amount of additional creativity and innovation slapped on top. Virtually all progress is incremental and comes ahead of previous work, that is why the idea of 'intellectual property' is such an oxymoron and is actually robbing us of our culture and heritage as well as stifling innovation and creativity, not helping it (as was originally intended when laws now used to protect 'intellectual property' were written). If people really did come up with massive innovations and creations purely in isolation then I'd agree with you, but they don't.

#25 Apollo

Apollo

    The bringer of doom

  • Hosted
  • 3,467 posts
  • Location:Core of Nexus
  • Projects:Robot Storm, Project Phantom
  •  1337 Modder

Posted 07 July 2005 - 08:12 PM

Well, interesting debate this one...

anyways I agree partially to prime's comment about originality, if mod has one or two atleast own unique assets while rest may have been made public or be public assets used, it should warrant enough uniqueness to the mod but then again good gameplay and good coding as well different weapon codings and such for free art based mods can also make a big difference.

It is more like how you use the assets too and granted its easier to learn in some cases by investigating others work it is alright as long as you still use the info gained slightly differently than just fall for copy everything and hope it works.
Posted Image

EAApoc wrote:
The only written law in a C&C game I ever saw is please Mr.Developer make it fun and give me a lot of **** to explode, o and don't you ever get another soul to play Kane but Joe Kucan. Aside from those two rules, all bets are off =) hehe
-APOC

#26 Guest_ChuChu_*

Guest_ChuChu_*
  • Guests

Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:52 AM

old topic, sorry, but every link is down(ppm,svagewar,owners site and revora)

#27 ihateharriers

ihateharriers

    Supreme Commander of Flying Squirrel Army

  • Hosted
  • 854 posts
  • Location:LALALALALALALALAND
  • Projects:YR: Air Wars, Sorta Secret Tiberian Thing, staying alive
  •  Flying Squirrels - Even Crazier Than Me!!

Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:25 PM

Honestly, I am not interested in what Da Vinci nor anyone else's opinion about me possibly re-editting their work but what I am interested in is keeping the creativity alive in the community. This is why I never opposed anyone from re-editting my work or demanding to give credit to me. As long as people are still creating then I don't mind it and I feel obligated to give back to the community then say protecting my intellectual work...even if it becomes slightly editted. I am not here to make a name for myself but instead to simply provide a resource.
However I will take it a step forward, I really encourage people to see, copy and edit how others do their work and I advocate that they give back what they learned and try to make something standard even better.
This is how I started vxl, shp and ini editting. I generally took other people's stuff and observed how it worked and either I editted what they did or created something based around it.
Tutorials are fine but it is just words...nothing physical. I am interested in the physical. I feel this is how I learn.

View Post


You wouldn't say that if you had work stolen.

// initiate asshole and grudge sequence
nor would the people who you stole work from.
//end asshole and grudge sequence
Posted Image

Posted Image
Congrats, mate!!

#28 Guest_ChuChu_*

Guest_ChuChu_*
  • Guests

Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:39 PM

it dont open, need dll file i think

#29 Allied General

Allied General

    C&C Guild

  • Hosted
  • 6,922 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Projects:AGSA
  •  Modder

Posted 25 July 2006 - 02:11 PM

Threads like this

http://forums.revora...showtopic=31995

http://www.sleipnirs...p...=12&t=13733

Then so call "modders" who think they can make your mod "better" by ripping stuff off from other mods like AR2 and ruining the gameplay. (Robot Storm)

Also when these new people come along rip an entire mod and claim credit for it and then have the stupidity to ask for help cos all they know is how to copy and paste text from Eagle Red coding or even worse mess it up either further with tibed or whatever.

Thats when people want protection and credit for work.

Few people nowadays generally want to learn.

If people use correct grammar and english and politely asking voxel/shp modders how to model and code for example then maybe people might actually help them :p
Posted Image

#30 Hogo

Hogo

    Pro Mapper XD

  • C&C Guild Staff
  • 1,295 posts
  • Location:England
  • Projects:Enemy Enhanced, Mapping
  •  Friendly face
  • Division:C&C Guild
  • Job:Division Staff

Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:14 PM

Well, I don't mind people putting software that prevents others from stealing material but I think we all have a moral obligation to allow others to modd our modds. However I don't feel the need to press this issue any further or condemn.
Even I admit I often hack into people's modds just to take unique vxls, shps and see how they coded the game. I find it interesting...sometimes I try to balance the modd myself or see how they "painted" their vxls.
It is for educational purposes...honestly!


Same i like to look at the coding i like to looks at the wepouns of corse i would never steel some ones work because i know that that make it worse for me cos i am not lerning

#31 Athena

Athena

    Embody the Truth

  • Undead
  • 6,946 posts
  •  Former Community Leader

Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:27 PM

@ Allied General (AG)
Agreed.

@ hobo98
I can partially understand that, but why not ask the mod creator for permission to view the file(s), or ask them for help, or make a topic etc.?

#32 Rattuskid

Rattuskid

    I used to be somebody noteworthy... I think

  • Members
  • 1,064 posts
  • Projects:Osmium (mostly dead), Immunizer (crib death) and Spritezkrieg (also crib death)
  •  Rattus Norvegicus (bitch)

Posted 25 July 2006 - 05:08 PM

I love how someone bumped this looking for proper links, and everyone else picked right back up with the debate like it was second nature.
Being a total douche.

#33 lefthand

lefthand

    Free Agent

  • Members
  • 425 posts
  • Location:United States
  • Projects:Black Alert
  •  Propagandist

Posted 25 July 2006 - 10:06 PM

Also when these new people come along rip an entire mod and claim credit for it and then have the stupidity to ask for help cos all they know is how to copy and paste text from Eagle Red coding or even worse mess it up either further with tibed or whatever.

Thats when people want protection and credit for work.


Protection from what? From people “misusing” their work by lowering the supposed quality of it. Elitism at its finest; don’t you dare mod my game but let me please mod this one? Of course, whether the quality improved or worsen when these noobs “stole” your work is entirely subjective and moot.
I guess it comes down to why any of us mod here to begin with. I would say most of us mod for the fun of it. To alter a game so we may enjoy it better but I think some of us have inserted our egos into our work and therefore possibly feel a modification upon our mod is a modification upon our own character…for the worst.
How do you think the people at Westwood would feel? A bunch of teenagers and twenty somethings modding their game…and hell even hacking into their precious .exe file. Did any of us ask for their permission? This modification community alone is solely about hacking, changing and copying their own game…whether for the better or the worst.
And if some of the people at Westwood felt the same way as some of the modders amongst ourselves we wouldn’t have a game to modify either. Thankfully, none of them did.
Posted Image

#34 Apollo

Apollo

    The bringer of doom

  • Hosted
  • 3,467 posts
  • Location:Core of Nexus
  • Projects:Robot Storm, Project Phantom
  •  1337 Modder

Posted 26 July 2006 - 07:13 AM

Protection from what? From people “misusing” their work by lowering the supposed quality of it. Elitism at its finest; don’t you dare mod my game but let me please mod this one? Of course, whether the quality improved or worsen when these noobs “stole” your work is entirely subjective and moot.
I guess it comes down to why any of us mod here to begin with. I would say most of us mod for the fun of it. To alter a game so we may enjoy it better but I think some of us have inserted our egos into our work and therefore possibly feel a modification upon our mod is a modification upon our own character…for the worst.
How do you think the people at Westwood would feel? A bunch of teenagers and twenty somethings modding their game…and hell even hacking into their precious .exe file. Did any of us ask for their permission? This modification community alone is solely about hacking, changing and copying their own game…whether for the better or the worst.
And if some of the people at Westwood felt the same way as some of the modders amongst ourselves we wouldn’t have a game to modify either. Thankfully, none of them did.


I would say some of it is because when starting a mod you wanna preserve its vision it was designed with than have it torn apart by random additions that make little sense and just cause more confusion if such "modded mod" is being publicly spread around..private edits are fine..there might be some good ideas as well but it'd be best check with original creator if they fit the vision if want such in public versions.

Mods are sometimes even years long projects and say its a middle ages set one (mod) and some n00b comes in to add a cyborg commando and distribute it around.. i'm sure you won't like the fact that mod vision is being wrecked but that aside..editing invidual shp/vxl is fine or ini for purpose of learning and such.

I love how someone bumped this looking for proper links, and everyone else picked right back up with the debate like it was second nature.


Ya its pretty sad. thats why i tend to stay away from forums these days. :)


Thus why I don't post much either :ninja:
Posted Image

EAApoc wrote:
The only written law in a C&C game I ever saw is please Mr.Developer make it fun and give me a lot of **** to explode, o and don't you ever get another soul to play Kane but Joe Kucan. Aside from those two rules, all bets are off =) hehe
-APOC

#35 BobingAbout

BobingAbout

    Serious Modder

  • Hosted
  • 1,288 posts
  • Location:Here
  • Projects:R:ROTC, Destructivality, Factorio Mods
  •  Coder

Posted 26 July 2006 - 07:52 AM

and hell even hacking into their precious .exe file. Did any of us ask for their permission?

actually, PD did ask permission, although it was after he had already started.

i think the beef most people have with hacking is when its for piracy. for projects like TTDPatch and RockPatch, the writers usually don't have much of a problem with it. unfortunatly, due to law put in place to stop piracy, it makes any kinda of hacking less than legal.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#36 lefthand

lefthand

    Free Agent

  • Members
  • 425 posts
  • Location:United States
  • Projects:Black Alert
  •  Propagandist

Posted 26 July 2006 - 05:23 PM

Protection from what? From people “misusing” their work by lowering the supposed quality of it. Elitism at its finest; don’t you dare mod my game but let me please mod this one? Of course, whether the quality improved or worsen when these noobs “stole” your work is entirely subjective and moot.
I guess it comes down to why any of us mod here to begin with. I would say most of us mod for the fun of it. To alter a game so we may enjoy it better but I think some of us have inserted our egos into our work and therefore possibly feel a modification upon our mod is a modification upon our own character…for the worst.


Welcome to the world of game modification. What you described is what people in the community have done with one game. Not all of us have preserved the vision that the creators of Red Alert might have wanted and pieces of the game are torn out and easily distributed throughout the internet. With the resources currently provided for this game you could easily argue whether it has gone for the worst or best.
As long as anyone is using another’s creation, whether mod or game, they are obligated to cite the creator‘s work they are modding. These terms have always applied when someone “remixes” someone else’s music, art and etc.. It is common sense.


Mods are sometimes even years long projects and say its a middle ages set one (mod) and some n00b comes in to add a cyborg commando and distribute it around.. i'm sure you won't like the fact that mod vision is being wrecked but that aside..editing invidual shp/vxl is fine or ini for purpose of learning and such.


I probably wouldn’t play a game that featured a cyborg commando versus hordes of medieval men and if it happened to be my mod then I would just laugh. But this anti-leech program isn’t about that…it is about entirely cutting people off from modifying a game. It is like banning computers to stop hacking. A heavy handed tactic that only crushes the feet of many non-would be hackers. Personally I don’t like painting with a wide brush on a small canvas.


I would say some of it is because when starting a mod you wanna preserve its vision it was designed with than have it torn apart by random additions that make little sense and just cause more confusion if such "modded mod" is being publicly spread around..private edits are fine..there might be some good ideas as well but it'd be best check with original creator if they fit the vision if want such in public versions.


But that is entirely subjective and how can we successfully read the minds of the employees of Westwood to see if our vision matches theirs...let alone if they even have a vision. We all mod to create something in our vision...not someone elses.


actually, PD did ask permission, although it was after he had already started.


Then I stand corrected then. But tell me this...if WW didn't okay it would you still use the Rock Patch?

Edited by lefthand, 26 July 2006 - 05:25 PM.

Posted Image

#37 Allied General

Allied General

    C&C Guild

  • Hosted
  • 6,922 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Projects:AGSA
  •  Modder

Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:07 PM

Fair enough lefthand you believe all work should avaliable regardless of time and effort spent modifying or creating it

Also not saying thank you for using work or asking permission should be the norm

Thats what I am against.

Nothing to do with not helping others.

Also if people want to mod they can ask questions in a polite and responsible manner instead of copy + pasting code before complaining it doesn't work.

Also its not entirely subjective, whoever creates a proper mod follows guidelines which are outlined in the sticky topic and in the end the mod creator made his mod to be like that.

If someone wants change then you have forums for that.

Finally I close this thread.

Also Elitism? Welcome to the world of modding.

This is a small community and we don't take idiots anymore.

Everyone knows modding needs somewhat large amount of effort to achieve wow results.

Edited by Allied General, 26 July 2006 - 11:09 PM.

Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users