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DoW AI v1.2RC6 - IT SHOULD BE FINAL ! !


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#1 thudo

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 01:56 PM

Finally! :shiftee:

Larkin put some sweet touches on it last nite and its a thing of beauty! I can truely say we're put a serious dent into the fact that v1.30 works well now over what it did a week ago. Its all about teamwork ! We can hold our heads high with the acknowledgement that the AI is truely v1.30 compliant and does not suffer as badly from prereq woes (although its not up to v1.20 standards until Relic reaches with us at the final mile).

I am still awaiting beta reports from this latest build I am can confidently say it was worth the extra week considering how far the scripts have elevated the project to.

Currently, I am starting to re-add the new changes to the dox and will be done tonight. Barring any unforeseen show-stoppers, I believe we are good for a v1.2 ! ! ! !

Next releases will come, as promised, more rapidly especially in light of the expansion mid-sept.

Thanks everyone for your help! This is truely a team project and the results will speak for themselves. Now imagine when Relic lifts the prereq spectre and gives us a more free-welding AI for the expansion?!?!? <drools> :cool:

e.

Edited by thudo, 19 July 2005 - 10:54 PM.

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#2 LarkinVB

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 02:23 PM

I agree. This should be out of the door as soon as possible. Tweaking the AI at weekend was much fun but I found dozens of small to big details which could need a fix. Doing this now would lead to a neverending story.

Thanks to Thudo for his neverending enthusiasm in the face of sniper fire by me. Also good job beta testers, watching the last replays did get me going. Together with Flensers great work we have something to show with v1.2, at least compared with v1.1 or vanialla AI on DoW 1.3.

Btw Flenser, I reactivated you code which did prevent orks to run away while broken if there are friends nearby. It's a nice addition but caused a CDT. Took me a while to figure it out. There was a missing squad_ai:IsValid() in the code checking for nearby ork squads.

So coders beware. If you check squads, first test if there are still alive or a position check for them might crash the game !

#3 Flenser

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 10:10 AM

Btw Flenser, I reactivated you code which did prevent orks to run away while broken if there are friends nearby. It's a nice addition but caused a CDT.  Took me a while to figure it out. There was a missing squad_ai:IsValid() in the code checking for nearby ork squads.

So coders beware. If you check squads, first test if there are still alive or a position check for them might crash the game !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good catch Larkin :D

It is curious, though, how rarely IsValid() is used by the vanilla AI code, compared to how often we have to use it to prevent crashes. Just about every code change I have done that involves multiple squads turns out to need IsValid() to prevent a crash. It is a tricky bugger, though, since often new code will seem to be working fine, and then a squad will die just before the new code tries to get it to do something and then - CRASH! Insert an IsValid() check and all is well. Definitely one to remember when you are hunting down unexplained crashes.

Flenser

Edited by Flenser, 19 July 2005 - 10:12 AM.


#4 thudo

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 10:55 PM

It final methinks - grab it on the site but we're good to publish it! Added very minor tweak for game start anti-rush as a stop-gap measure until we can fully get anti-rush scripts done and working!
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#5 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 02:13 AM

guys, that code is BRUTAL! I can't even come close, using my normal tactics I'm getting destroyed on battle marshes vs. Chaos. I always think I just have it too, and then where do all these troops come from?? Scary. Just played 2 games and was owned each one, dammit I'm pissed.

Larkin...U bastad'

:dry:

#6 oozish

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 02:15 AM

What's amazing is the last release was really good, but this is just too much. I can't imagine playing insane. It's scary at harder. Harder FEELS like insane cause the ai is just freaking scary.

yipes...I need to find a corner and shiver.

#7 thudo

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 02:38 AM

UHmm.. errrr..

Are you referring to RC6 that I posted 3 hours ago? The one with the extra 2 squads at game start instead of none but scouts roaming around?

I've been testing the latest build on 2p_MountainTrail using that Larkin AI trick that allows all 4 startpoints to be used by the AI and I must say: its was beyond pandamonium! Larkin.. buddyy... AMAZING FIND! That AI trick totally makes AI troubleshooting far more enjoyable!

So.. beta guys.. details please.. what gives?
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#8 oozish

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 03:21 AM

ya, beta RC6....that's the stuff! It worked for me, at least, I haven't beat that AI yet.

#9 thudo

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 04:22 AM

Errr.. details? What stopped Oozish this time that previous builds didn't? Those extra squads at the beginning?
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#10 oozish

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 04:58 AM

Honestly, i'm not sure, but the forces were overwhelming. I would take the outside (their base) lp and everything seemed to be going well, but both times I played they just caught up with a vengeance, I mean, huge squads.

I'll let you know more tomorrow, but despite my best efforts the AI just crushed me. I sent ASM over the hills, 2 squads, and was creating havok there, but the AI sent out attacks from North and South and still seemed able to attack the ASM's in base (without turrets, just troops!). One thing I let slip I think is a focus for me to tech efficiently, I just wasn't excpecting this sort of resistance.

I'll have to be more strategic tomorrow. Usually I'll have to focus on one map and figure out how to beat them...this time, 2x in a row, the CHAOS ate me for lunch by sheer numbers (and upgraded squads I noticed). Defilers didn't come until late game, but by that time they had the whole map.

If things don't change tomorrow and I'm still getting owned like that I'll post a replay and you can check it out. This was all on Battlemarshes, btw; only vs. chaos. I'm sure eldar/SM would do the same. If I really focus on teching fast and setting up a defensive 'haven' in base for their early intrusions, I might fare better.

Edited by oozish, 20 July 2005 - 05:01 AM.


#11 thudo

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 05:09 AM

Nice! I gather going with 1 marine squad in the initial build order + the extra dynamically-created squad if map is small really made a difference. Sounds like we have a winner! These were just some last minute changes I made.

Looks like its package time. :dry:
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#12 LarkinVB

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 05:23 AM

Will the extra squad delay the generator build ? Hope this won't have bad side effects.

#13 Markoso

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 06:48 AM

While wracked with insomnia and dreading work tommorow, I'll give it a quicky test. Edit the post with replay attached when I return.

-Just finished up, it was rather enjoyable. I expected the Ork AI to let me walk all over it after the harass, but it surprised me and pushed me back some. Towards the end I was just having fun with WoTE, but a good match from the AI all the same (though a bit lengthy at almost 30 minutes).

http://flypicture.co...one&id=qtz3m6s=

On a final note, yes, let this be final, anything else is the beginning of 1.3 XD

Edited by Markoso, 20 July 2005 - 07:22 AM.


#14 Tenormarine

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 07:09 AM

It final methinks - grab it on the site but we're good to publish it!



Where is this site?

#15 Excedrin

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 08:43 AM

Tenormarine - "site" = private ftp site for testers.

I was going to play all 16 matchups on insane on the same map, but I only got thru 8 of them... anyway, it seems like it plays much better, I think it's partly because of the lack of early turrets.
Here's a zip of the first two races (SM vs each race and Eldar vs each race).
It felt like Eldar vs Ork and Eldar vs SM were tough, but I think it's partly because I was starting to get tired. Tomorrow I'll probably get thru Chaos and Ork. Hopefully this is helpful, maybe someone can spot areas where the AI can avoid losing troops and improve it for the next version.

http://lerp.com/~sic...C6-sm-eldar.zip
The zip contains the following replays:
http://lerp.com/~sic...0719.225943.rec
http://lerp.com/~sic...0719.231332.rec
http://lerp.com/~sic...0719.232135.rec
http://lerp.com/~sic...0719.233624.rec
http://lerp.com/~sic...0719.235140.rec
http://lerp.com/~sic...0720.000206.rec
http://lerp.com/~sic...0720.004139.rec
http://lerp.com/~sic...0720.012920.rec

#16 Tenormarine

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 09:01 AM

Tenormarine - "site" = private ftp site for testers.




Ahhhh I see. Well then I guess....... I'll .......................................have.....................................
.to.....................................ah.......................................
.........hmmmm...............................wait?

Edited by Tenormarine, 20 July 2005 - 09:16 AM.


#17 thudo

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 01:16 PM

Not long now. :dry: You'll be getting your share of AI ownage VERY ShORTLY! Muhahahah!

Will the extra squad delay the generator build ? Hope this won't have bad side effects.
Actually they don't since before the AI didn't have a quick leg-up to protect its assets. I tried with and without the 2 squads being created near gamestart and the generator got built at the same time (+/- a few seconds).

The key is: the beta guys are frustrated and thus their playstyles are now in a little disarray due to the sudden early onslaught which will gain the AI more early on.

Edited by thudo, 20 July 2005 - 01:29 PM.

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#18 oozish

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 03:40 PM

Excedrin, seeing your Insane difficultiy replays made me wonder about the map importance, since I've had such a hard time on battlemarshes I fired up a meeting of minds map, which is much less AI friendly with all it's pathing and bottlenecking. I had an easy time of it on Meeting of Minds, yet last night was really getting beat on battle marshes. Try battlemarshes/Chaos or Eldar on Insane and post that here, I'd be really interested to see your playstyle especially if you defeat the AI on insane using the latest build. Or blood river. :dry:
Respect.

oozish on Meeting of Minds/harder:

http://www.flypictur...one&id=qtz2ka4=

Edited by oozish, 20 July 2005 - 03:41 PM.


#19 thudo

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 03:49 PM

Yeaaa.. we can't help it when certain maps are not AI-friendly. Thats RTS AI logic for you. :dry:

Still.. use HARDER skill instead of INSANE. Insane is just, well, insane! HARDER is more an accurate test how the AI measures up.
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#20 Tenormarine

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 04:56 PM

AI very impressive in the replays. No Thudo get this out before the forum goes down tonight



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