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#1 philcha

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 10:41 AM

I downloaded RS overnight 3-4 Aug 2005 and tried to play it - without the "optional" music pack. No new maps, despite what I'd seen in other posts. So I tried it out on the RA2 map Mayday. Results:* Splash screen and menus looked OK.
* "Map loading" screen showed a random selection of Soviet-type graphics and colours - Lybian, Cuban, Iraqui.
* Graphics and captions for options in "Structures" menu looked nothing like those in the RS manual, more like a mix of RA2 and RA1.
* No sound - so no "construction complete" or "unit ready". Considering everything built ridiculously fast even on the slowest game speed setting, I was probalby falling miles behind the AI.
So I quit - and noticed that XCC Mod Launcher for RS did not offer a "deactivate the mod" option the way it does with AR2.
Then I tried to play AR2 - that's when things really went sour:* "Map loading" screen showed a random selection of Soviet-type graphics and colours - Lybian, Cuban, Iraqui - instead of Nemesis or Genesis.
* First time I started a map, I immediately got "the computer has been defeated".
* The 2nd time, nothing on the playing area screen at all, so I couldn't even deploy my MCV.
* No music or sound.
* Conclusion: RS corrupts or fails to restore the standard installed files.
Then I tried standard YR:* All graphics appeared normal.
* No sound, so no "completed" announcements.
Finally I tried standard RA2 - same results as YR.

BTW I have the YR 1.001 patch and no other patches.

Looks like I'll have to scrub and re-install RA2 and YR.

Edited by Apollo, 03 September 2005 - 02:15 PM.


#2 Apollo

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 12:40 PM

hello

it does not offer deactivate option as it should deactivate without asking.

seems the launcher is becoming a complete nuisance and i gotta do basic install program instead so nothing fucks up :p

just ra2 clean up tool should fix your YR..get from http://marshall.cannis.net

Edited by Apollo, 04 August 2005 - 12:56 PM.

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#3 Ash

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 01:01 PM

If you ask me, there was something residual in your RA2 directory from a previous mod...possibly a rulesmd.ini, evamd.ini and a couple of fucky palettes?

Tom had a similar odd issue when he forgot to remove a rulesmd.ini file. RS doesn't affect EVA in such a wild way ('construction complete') so you can't blame RS for that.

#4 philcha

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 07:44 AM

Hi, sorry for mistakenly accusing RS.

It looks like some other mod must have been causing interference in some wierd 3-way interaction which misled me into thinking RS was at fault.
  • I could switch between YR and AR2 with no problems until I played RS.
  • Then when I tried RS I had the problems I described in my last post.
But the problems went away after I:
  • Uninstalled everything.
  • Re-installed RA2, YR, YR 1.001 patch, AR2 and RS - but nothing else.
Now they all play nicely.

Apollo
  • Please don't give up on the launcher. After this experience I'm not touching mods which don't clean up afterwards.
  • Thanks for the link to RA2YRcleanup.
On the topic of mods cleaning up after themsleves, does the XCC launcher have any facilities to clean up after an unexpected shutdown, e.g. power failure or Windows freeze / crash? I can see how it might be done:
  • Add XCC with a "clean up" switch to Windows' "run on start-up" list.
  • Delete the "run on start-up" item when clean up done.
but can XCC do this?

#5 Apollo

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 07:48 AM

well, I understand your point but frankly some systems XCC just won't do at all but I'm still looking for good options...

anyway if game crashes unexpected, yes XCC launcher does leave the files and not remove but if you run it again in launcher by clicking MOD as usual go ingame and quit..the problem is solved.
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EAApoc wrote:
The only written law in a C&C game I ever saw is please Mr.Developer make it fun and give me a lot of **** to explode, o and don't you ever get another soul to play Kane but Joe Kucan. Aside from those two rules, all bets are off =) hehe
-APOC

#6 Nyerguds

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 07:28 PM

Heh.. the new way of modding will be edited executables that use their own custom filenames for their mixfiles and inifiles :sleep:
That way you won't have any interference with other mods at all, even if multiple mods are actually installed on the same game.

Edited by Nyerguds, 08 August 2005 - 07:31 PM.


#7 Allied General

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 07:31 PM

Heh.. the new way of modding will be edited executables that use dfferent filenames for their mixfiles and inifiles :sleep:
That way you won't have any interference with other mods at all, even if multiple mods are actually installed on the same game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


:sleep: good old ROTD reverse engineering :sleep:
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#8 philcha

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 09:44 PM

A few things I think are odd, stupid or suspicious about the game-play:

There appears to be a bug with repairing Nexus Hack Towers and perhaps Laser Towers - health goes up to almost 100% and then immediately back down to 80%, even when not under attack. And I can't stop the repair. So these never-completed repairs continuously cost me $.

Freedom League AI builds Hellstorm Cannons like crazy (and see next 2 items).

AI's, especially Freedom League, have habit of blocking their ground units behind groups of walled-in "grand cannons" on maps where their base has 1 narrrow entrance.

Does the AI cheat on $? They always seem able to build lots of expensive stuff, especially defences, while I have to watch the $ carefully - even though I've claimed far more oil wells and often have more harvesters active.

Does the AI cheat on prequisites, especially Battle Labs? I'm sure I've seen AI units which officially require Battle Labs even when the AI has no BL.

My units and defences don't automatically target enemy non-combatants even when the non-combatants are attacking me with their pea-shooters. Even Attack-Move (CTRL-SHIFT-click) is no use in this situation. It's very annoying because the non-combatants are often hidden behind my buildings.

I think Nexus needs a unit which can drop depth charges or attack submarines in some other way. At present Nexus appears helpless against Freedom League subs.

Can anti-air units and buildings shoot down the Freedom Fury sub's nuclear missiles?

As someone said in another post, Freedom's Bomb Jeeps are too powerful - even if you kill them you're likely to lose more than the same amount of $ in units and / or buildings.

Nexus' Miner Drone looks too much like the Terror Drone. The Miner should be larger than the TD since the Miner carries ore.

I tried a Terror Drone rush once and they didn't seem to attack enemy vehicles, not even when ordered to.

Edited by philcha, 11 August 2005 - 09:59 PM.


#9 Lee

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 10:01 PM

A few things I think are odd, stupid or suspicious about the game-play:

There appears to be a bug with repairing Nexus Hack Towers and perhaps Laser Towers - health goes up to almost 100% and then immediately back down to 80%, even when not under attack. And I can't stop the repair. So these never-completed repairs continuously cost me $.

Freedom League AI builds Hellstorm Cannons like crazy (and see next 2 items).

AI's, especially Freedom League, have habit of blocking their ground units behind groups of walled-in "grand cannons" on maps where their base has 1 narrrow entrance.

Does the AI cheat on $? They always seem able to build lots of expensive stuff, especially defences, while I have to watch the $ carefully - even though I've claimed far more oil wells and often have more harvesters active.

Does the AI cheat on prequisites, especially Battle Labs? I'm sure I've seen AI units which officially require Battle Labs even when the AI has no BL.

My units and defences don't automatically target enemy non-combatants even when the non-combatants are attacking me with their pea-shooters. Even Attack-Move (CTRL-SHIFT-click) is no use in this situation. It's very annoying because the non-combatants are often hidden behind my buildings.

I think Nexus needs a unit which can drop depth charges or attack submarines in some other way. At present Nexus appearis helpless against Freedom League subs.

Can anti-air units and buildings shoot down the Freedom Fury sub's nuclear missiles?

Nexus' Miner Drone looks too much like the Terror Drone.

I tried a Terror Drone rush once and they didn't seem to attack enemy vehicles, not even when ordered to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


1. Hack towers lose health once they control something, they shouldnt lose it so sudden though :S

2,3,4,5. Thats all to make the AI better afaik.

6. It should just be CTRL +click. This im not really sure of but they dont harm you really lol.

7. They have hover ability and high tech and high fire power, to balance all this Apollo desided to give them no navy, imo its fair.

8. Not sure, i have never come across it, i always kill them before they get to my base :dry:

9. Well i believe its just a recoloured and resized version of it, whether Apollo will make a new one or not im not sure.

10. I cant explain that one :S

Hope i did some sort of help. :p Im sure Apollo or Comrade Jerkov can fill you in more.

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#10 Apollo

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 05:55 AM

1. The recent version hack tower only takes damage if it indeed is controlling a unit..when it is not controlling any it won't take damage (check ya got 1.98.2). Laser towers do not have this feature and are for pure combat.

2. We are aware of this, idea was make AI build more defenses equally but you see what happened...nothing that an artillery or bombers wouldn't handle however...

3. Yes, noticed and related to #2 as AI expands out with defenses than concentrating them in actual base.

4. Of course, or the AI would be same as YR normal AI..It couldn't even pull off a decent attack if given same money as you as he is an artificial idiot and would spend his money on defenses and such instead and then have little for tanks, the AI base is poorly coded by the WW team so it has to cheat.

Besides with online co-op(me and jerkov) it is common practise to kill AIs even at their current level :dry:


5. Yes.

6. Aka Technicians...amended this issue while it is minor indeed.

7. Actual word here being APPEARS..every nexus hover unit can combat subs or any naval forces as well detect them and their speed is major asset over slow turning human vessels.

8. Of course they can, only prob is just that AI never builds sufficient AA cover for their bases but maybe thats leverage for us...

9. It is larger than TD or you got to have your eyes checked..anyways it carries smallest load of ore of all harvs which is intentional.

10. odd, they usually can acquire targets automatically however, will look into it.

Edited by Apollo, 12 August 2005 - 06:03 AM.

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EAApoc wrote:
The only written law in a C&C game I ever saw is please Mr.Developer make it fun and give me a lot of **** to explode, o and don't you ever get another soul to play Kane but Joe Kucan. Aside from those two rules, all bets are off =) hehe
-APOC

#11 Ash

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 02:45 PM

Since the questions have been answered, I'll add this bit:

And the Bomb Jeep, along with all Freedom's suicide units, is designed to do damage for this reason: They are total fanatics with little or no regard for their own safety :D Their mentality is: If I'm goin' down, I'm takin' you with me! This was always intentional to have them this way, and so it's not an issue :p

Don't forget, also, NEX don't need a Navy. His existing armour units are able to more than match any naval fleet. My only suggestion on that point might be to up the armour on ships...other than that, it's pretty straightforward.

Oh, and a hint for the Hack Tower: The Machine Robotics Plant (buildable after battlelab, that clones your infantry), also serves as a Grinder :lol: Send MCed units in there just as you would if you were playing Yuri, and you'll not only save your hack tower from destruction, but you'll be able to more than recoup the funds lost in repairing the darn thing.

The AI is made to cheat purely for the challenge factor. You'll still find that if you're a skilled player you'll prove more than a match for it, but Apollo designed it so that those who thought regular YR tactics would succeed will get their ego dented quickly. Play against four of them, or five if you set a couple of AI defender to give you time to build up before the AI steamrolls ya. You can't rush those mothers early...you'd be quickly owned.

#12 philcha

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 10:51 AM

It (Nexus Drone Miner) is larger than TD or you got to have your eyes checked..anyways it carries smallest load of ore of all harvs which is intentional.

Sad but true - my eyesight's awful, otherwise I'd be playing outdoor games :-(

The manual may need an update:
  • Should admit the AI cheats on $ and prerequisites. There's no shame in that since the Westood AI is mediocre, and you'd get brownie points for honesty.
  • Re Drone Miners carrying smallest load of ore, the manual says one of Nexus' strengths is strong economy. Should it say e.g. "Strong late-game economy (but early-game economy is average)"?
  • No mention of Hack Towers taking damage when controlling units. I still think HTs are good value, but the manual should be open about this and if possible state how the rate of damage is calculated.
  • Manual says Hack Towers' effect is short-lived, but it appears to last as long as the HT.
  • No mention of Robotics Plant serving as Grinder. Aslo it appers not to work on "teleporting" units, e.g. Chrono Tank. Possibly a defect in YR, I don't know as I haven't used it there.
  • Some of the stuff at the end should be in the sections about the relevant sides, and the rest should be at the start because it applies to all sides.
I can update the Manual if you supply the info.

Edited by philcha, 13 August 2005 - 12:16 PM.


#13 Ash

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 11:55 AM

The manual may need an update:[list]
[*]Should admit the AI cheats on $ and prerequisites. There's no shame in that since the Westood AI is mediocre, and you'd get brownie points for honesty.

Why admit this? I even said it's been upgraded to present more of a challenge. Besides, what difference does it make whether it cheats or not? To say so is pointless. ALL AI's cheat. Ever play Empire Earth? Well, there ya go.

[*]Re Drone Miners carrying smallest load of ore,  the manual says one of Nexus' strengths is strong economy.

Take into account the speed of the Drone Miner. Compare this to the Freedom League's War Miner. Also don't forget the Robotics Plant which gives a 25% cost reduction to all units. I'd say that's a pretty strong economy by comparison.

[*]No mention of Hack Towers taking damage when controlling units. I still think HTs are good value, but the manual  should be open about this and if possible state how the rate of damage is calculated.

I'm pretty darn sure I did put this. I will check, however.

[*]Manual says Hack Towers' effect is short-lived, but it appears to last as long as the HT.

Hmm. I must've forgot to update this, haha. Thanks for the heads-up.

[*]No mention of Robotics Plant serving as Grinder.

Again, I'm sure I did. But if I didn't, I'll change.

[*]Some of the stuff at the end should be in the sections about the relevant sides, and the rest should be at the start because it applies to all sides.

I set it out the way I did because I didn't want to include 'structures' in the side descs. Such a thing is unnecessary since anyone who's played C&C will know how it works. I have actually subdivided them, if you notice :lol:.

I can update the Manual if you supply the info.

No thanks. I can do it :wacko: I spent hour after hour perfecting it, and with every update it's been updated. I can be forgiven for missing the odd little thing, no? :lol:


EDIT: I've updated, and I'm just about to upload it now. Remember that RS isn't totally 100% complete...so things change and alter as time goes by. The Hack Tower is evidence of this. Originally an invisible drone was deployed to take the unit over for a specific length of time...this proved slow and unresponsive as a method, so it was made into a Mastermind-like device. Sometimes I miss the odd thing. But it's updated now :lol:

Edited by Comrade Jerkov, 13 August 2005 - 12:06 PM.


#14 Apollo

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 12:11 PM

2) actually theres more to that aspect of speed which isn't just unit moving speed, consider that it carries less each load than other sides do so this comes down to less mining time to fill the load and then make the return trip and unload where other sides tend to have longer wait times somewhat to receive ore, as what kills you in the end is the shortage of cash, nexus can keep constant small supply while other sides tend to have shortage times..so means better economy and in long run the benefit shows more.

3) simple, it calculates by defined amount of damage per every additional unit being controlled...still experimental and not totally finished code wise..as in to perfection and even single unit controlled deals this certain damage per it done in certain time delays.

Edited by Apollo, 13 August 2005 - 12:15 PM.

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EAApoc wrote:
The only written law in a C&C game I ever saw is please Mr.Developer make it fun and give me a lot of **** to explode, o and don't you ever get another soul to play Kane but Joe Kucan. Aside from those two rules, all bets are off =) hehe
-APOC

#15 FoRSAkeN_oNe

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 04:06 AM

Come to think of it, in YR, you could toss a Chrono Troop into a Grinder.
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#16 Ash

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 12:06 PM

Could you? :grin: Can't say I tried. I didn't think it was possible due to the chrono loco.

#17 Samael

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 09:10 PM

Just one other thing the AI does not produce infectors or Transmogrifier it would be nice to have a Garg brawl <3, but if they are produced on the harder level which I only play medium difficulty but still the AI is still not producing infectors.

#18 philcha

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:10 PM

Playing Nexus vs Nexus, I used Iron Curtain to make a group of Siege Crawlers invulnerable and one was captured by a Hack Tower. When I destroyed the HT, the unit:
  • remained invulnerable (or at least blackened) for the rest of the game. If this had not been my final attack it might have been amusing to see the AI waste all its time attacking it.
  • would not take orders, it just stood still. Didn't make any difference how I selected it - clicking that unit, clicking another of the same type and T or TT - nothing worked. It wasn't a pathfinding issue - the unit wouldn't move in any direction. I also don't think that the unit acknowledged ("What is your command?") when I clicked or band-boxed it.
Can't remember whether I'd destroyed the enemy Iron Curtain at this point - its count-down was 0 when I invaded. Could the AI have IC'd my unit while it was under mind control and would a double IC put a unit in complete stasis?

May be a bug in YR, since Iron Curtain exists in YR and Hack Towers are re-skinned Yuri Mind Control Towers. The YR programmers may not have tested it since YR does not let a particular "race" have both MC and IC.

#19 Ash

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:13 PM

It does if you get a Soviet CY/Battle Lab and build it :blush:

This is unusual, though. Probably is a bug in the Curtain code...it sounds also like the Robot Tank logic incorporated in the Cent is playing a part. However, this is connected to the NEXUS Core...so if your Core was still standing, it shouldn't make a difference. =/

#20 Ash

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:15 PM

I don't think they've been incorporated into the AI's coding (yet). Although actually that is quite a fun suggestion :blush:




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