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PATCH 1.4 RELEASE SOON!


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#1 oozish

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 12:54 PM

the Relicnews Forums Thursday as the planned release date for a new version 1.4 patch for Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War (thanks Frans). Here word on the update, which will be available via the game's automatic function: "In Patch 1.4 we are addressing a few notable balance items, and we've also added Persistent Bodies and Decals! These options (accessible from the Graphics Options) allow you to control how long the bodies of the fallen warriors remain on the battlefield."

--FROM BLUES NEWS.

Wow, I guess they aren't going to wait for the release of WA?

Relic news (andrews') Post link:
http://forums.relicn...ead.php?t=72101

As the subject line says, on Thursday 8th September Patch 1.4 will launch and be available for download! The patch will be accessible by launching Dawn of War and logging in to the online section of the game (from the main menu, select Multiplayer, then Online).

As usual, shortly after the patch has been released we will be resetting the Ladder Stats to allow players to once again build up their rank and take their places in the top 10 under these new balance conditions.

In Patch 1.4 we are addressing a few notable balance items, and we've also added Persistent Bodies and Decals! These options (accessible from the Graphics Options) allow you to control how long the bodies of the fallen warriors remain on the battlefield. We think you're going to enjoy it! Here is a full list of changes that will be in Patch 1.4:

Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War -- Patch 1.4 Changes
Balance Changes
Increased Defiler cost to 190 requisition 400 power
Increased Defiler build time to 60 seconds
Increased the cost of the Chaos Sorcerer to 200 requisition 100 power
Chaos Sorcerer build time is now 60 seconds (up from 20)
Cost and build time of Chaos Marine Tactical Bolters reduced by 5%
Reduced the cost of the Chaos Temple by 10%
Reinforce time of Chaos Marine Tactical Bolters reduced by 10%
Warp Spider damage against infantry has been reduced by 15%
Guardian damage reduced by 5%
Ork Stormboyz armor changed from Infantry High to Heavy Medium. Ork Stormboyz should now be a much better counter to Warp Spiders.
Reduced the cost of the Space Marine Dreadnought to 170 requisition 350 power
Reduced the train time of the Space Marine Dreadnought to 50 seconds
Cost and build time of Space Marine Tactical Bolters reduced by 5%
Reinforce time of Space Marine Tactical Bolters reduced by 10%
Reduced the cost of the Chapel Barracks by 10%
Scouts were inadvertently given an accuracy penalty while moving in the 1.3 patch. This penalty has been removed. Scouts should now be more effective at dealing damage.
The recharge for Battle Cry was reduced to 96 seconds (down from 120)
The recharge for Orbital Bombardment was reduced to 195 seconds (down from 240)
The recharge for Smite was reduced to 100 seconds (down from 120)
The recharge for Weaken Resolve was reduced to 45 seconds (down from 60)
The build time for the Predator Lascannon upgrade was reduced to 20 seconds (down from 25)

Code & Performance Changes
Many small optimizations for low-end systems
Full front-end now reloaded after switching mods (games)
2 new graphics options: Persistent Bodies, Persistent Decals
Improved system performance detection capabilities of GraphicsOptions utility, resulting in more accurate settings. As a result, the GraphicsOptions utility will automatically run next time you start the game, post-patch/update.

Edited by oozish, 07 September 2005 - 12:58 PM.


#2 thudo

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 05:37 PM

Yeaaa but the balance changes are utter bullsh*t..

1) Chaos - no reason to go to Sacrifical Circle - Defilers cost more but own everything anyway (too god-like still).
2) SM - Buffed across the board + Marines are even more spammable now <Ack!!!>
3) Eldar - decently balanced although it took so long to finally balance WarpSpiders. Shheshh.
4) Orks.. Arghhhhh! They still blow. Only good at Tier 1.5 and thats it. Their vehicles are shiet compared to what they were in v1.20 - take too long to build. Stupid..

Not happy by these balance changes at all. Gawd.. paid developers sometimes not consulting the community on key balance issues.

LISTEN TO THE PRO-PLAYERS and have a vote on all balance-related problems.

Healthy Debate is the order of the day when it comes to play-balancing an RTS! ! !

Hell.. our team has a unique view of the overall balance of DoW - we see in simulated runs what is overly-nerfed or hideously buffed. Its not rocket science BUT having an aggressive discussion on balancing with community input is key to reaching the goal of near perfect balance.

Edited by thudo, 07 September 2005 - 05:39 PM.

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#3 oozish

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 07:49 PM

Hmmm, interesting maybe the lower cost of dreads and faster time will have a chance to defeat the defilers, I'll tell you now there is NO COUNTER i have found once chaos gets defilers out.

#4 thudo

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 07:55 PM

there is NO COUNTER i have found once chaos gets defilers out

Understatement x 50 ! I'm not concerned about SM anyway.. never have.. Its Eldar and Orks especially Orks I have always been concerned about once v1.30 hit. Eldar are weak-armoured but fast. Ork are heavily-armoured but slow and not shooty enough and their vehicles now take forever to come out. <ghey!> Bloody disaster balancing RTSes.

Game companies need a special standing committee in a boardroom with a live chat to the community to figure this out. Balancing is soo important to the success of a game. Why bother being anything other than SM/CSM now? F**ing stupid. Spam Defilers and Marines now...
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#5 Excedrin

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 09:36 PM

In 1.3, as Ork, I have problems with defilers (mainly because of sorc), but as Chaos (without defilers) or SM or Eldar, I have no problems with them.

Brightlances are very good vs defilers, especially since they don't have morale. SM can spam dreads easier than before, and they always had skullprobes.

Recently, I've seen some high level replays where tankbustas with rockets killed defilers. I think they should work better than sluggas/shootas because of higher hitpoints (they don't die to one cast of chains and doombolt).

Anyway, 1.3 is pretty balanced and it looks like 1.4 will be better, even if Chaos was nerfed a bit too much (should have increased sorc hitpoints or something maybe).

Note that AI vs AI matches are a very poor indicator of balance.

#6 thudo

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:05 PM

Note that AI vs AI matches are a very poor indicator of balance.

Are u nuts? Using AI is a good way to balance as its a level playing field of micro'ing. It showcases equal talent. You can easily see what works and doesn't at a low to mid level. Higher level stuff requires pro playing from irrational thinking human chess players. :sleep:

Still. how can you say v1.30 is remotely balanced anyway? Just spam Defilers = done. Brightlances, sure.. if you know he's coming with Defilers. Even then Defilers eat em for breakfast and sh*t them out for supper. heheh. Nothing should be that god-like even if pro-players know how to defeat it. General balancing *for any play-type* should be the rule of the day. Makes for a healthy franchise.

Edited by thudo, 07 September 2005 - 10:08 PM.

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#7 oozish

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 11:42 PM

Excedrin, what I'd like to see then, as I alluded to earlier in a separate thread, is SM vs Chaos where you let Chaos start making defilers...at least 2..then defeat them. That's the situation I've been trying to beat them at without success. Once I see a defiler, it makes a mess of my rocket squads, plasma squads don't do much against it, and they go toe to toe vs. dreadnaughts pretty well too (though the dread will win but not by much, and not against 2).

The situation is dire...I want to see a replay where you have no problem with defilers. Not that I'm doubting you, I just need to see how you handle it. Please let me know! :sleep:

difficulty: INsane
map: meeting of minds
Sm (player) vs. Chaos
Standard difficulty; normal resources

Edited by oozish, 07 September 2005 - 11:42 PM.


#8 Malkor

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 11:54 PM

Persistent bodies and decals!!! Woohoo!! 4v4's will truly feel like war!

#9 Excedrin

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:41 AM

Excedrin, what I'd like to see then, as I alluded to earlier in a separate thread, is SM vs Chaos where you let Chaos start making defilers...at least 2..then defeat them.  That's the situation I've been trying to beat them at without success.  Once I see a defiler, it makes a mess of my rocket squads, plasma squads don't do much against it, and they go toe to toe vs. dreadnaughts pretty well too (though the dread will win but not by much, and not against 2).

The situation is dire...I want to see a replay where you have no problem with defilers.  Not that I'm doubting you, I just need to see how you handle it.  Please let me know!  :sleep:

difficulty:  INsane
map:  meeting of minds
Sm (player) vs. Chaos
Standard difficulty; normal resources

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a couple problems with this, one, just "letting" someone build whatever units they want doesn't happen in serious games. If I did that, and then stomp them with dreads and rockets, it won't really help either since a (good) human will micro defilers and sorc better.

The other issue is that defilers typically pop out around 8 minutes and chaos will have only 1 of them. It's usually possible to kill the first one without taking too many losses (CC with hero while AV infantry shoot it). The 2nd one should die to your vehicles plus remaining infantry.

Regarding AI vs AI matches, some strats require better micro to pull off than others. Even mass marines is not as simple as selecting them all and hitting attack move and a target. A human will do things that the AI can't do, like scouts set on CC to tie reapers while marines kill guardians. Reaper mass vs mass marines isn't balanced without small touches like that. The AI plays some races much better than others.

Also, I agree that general balancing for all play types would be ideal, but consider the "sudden death" win condition. Eldar have the best tier 1 troop (maybe not in 1.4), the ability to build turrets anywhere, and cheaper LPs. In a fight where you don't capture any SPs unless they're well defended, that's a huge advantage over all of the other races. In Assassinate, they can hide FS in a webway and pop out to cast spells every time it recharges.

I dislike Relic's "temporal" balancing where Ork/SM (almost) have to beat Chaos before Defilers to win and SM/Chaos have to survive the Eldar tier 1 while teching, but it's still a reasonably balanced game.

Here's a replay where I let it get a few defilers (it's tricky to "let" it do stuff, if I forget to let it uncap, I win by T&H, if I play too aggressively, it never gets vehicles, if I let it go too long I have to go tier 3 for preds, etc):
http://dow.lerp.com/...0907.231433.rec

Edited by Excedrin, 08 September 2005 - 06:20 AM.


#10 Blodo

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 08:26 PM

Maybe im wrong but i observed the chaos vanilla ai own everything in sight of any enemy ai in its path. Is it that good of an indicator?

For one thing the DoW community couldnt agree to any one point needing fixing for the whole period after 1.3 was released. Thats why its so hard to get a patch together for Relic as theyre probably trying to follow suggestions etc but dont exactly know who to listen to.

Unless the DoW community presents a clear list of changes required all patches will probably break more than they fix. Lets wait for WA and see how the tech tree changes look in battle though first.

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#11 thudo

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 08:30 PM

Or resurrect a good DoW Balance Mod like we had going early this year!

WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT! At least I would have a good choice of pro-player recommended balance changes vs Relic's boardroom meeting ones!

We need that BALANCE MOD from the community going. It has some terribly good gameplay tweaks and it fit nicely into our AI seamlessly.
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#12 Excedrin

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 08:51 PM

Are you referring to DoWpro or Lordy's balance mod? Or one of the ones from the relic forums?

Also, pro players have a lot of different opinions as well. Foree (chaos) and Eclipser (eldar) say it's mostly balanced. There have been a few SM players in the top 10 as well. When Charlie was in the top 10, he'd constantly complain about Ork balance.

#13 thudo

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 11:52 PM

At least they have an opinion.. They can vote in it. They're experts in the raw gameplay of THE GAME and their feedback is invaluable. Still.. I general list would be drawn up and voted on. Simple.
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#14 Blodo

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 10:20 PM

Charlies posts about the orks were mostly right though.

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