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Contra strategy and ballance discussion


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#21 Madin

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 05:48 PM

Actually I think Airforce is better than before.  This have been a real good improvement over last version.  Much more balanced than before.  Only thing I could suggest is get AI more aggressive before it hits 3rd rank.

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People are missing the point. The aircraft general is by far the most obvious of all generals. What do I mean? well if someone chooses the airforce general, guess what they'll attack\defend with? so guess what you build? thats right, has soon has the weapon centre is up, shit loads of anti aircraft units start pumping out. With the brilliant new 'guard unit' function, a gattling tank for example can be set to guard a tank. It takes 2 JSF fighters to take out 1 gattling tank. 1 gattling tank will take out 3 helicopters. Guess who gets to level 3 first with these odds? The target designator will gladly write off your own base (GLA are good for forcing this!). Lets face it, their crap.

Suggestions: 1.Power up the Commanche, more anti tank missiles.
or
2. Allow the Aurora to have guarenteed first strike like it normally has.

#22 prophet of the pimps

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:11 PM

yhea the target designator is pretty stupid. once a rebel ambush happened near my front line patriot the designators a10 pretty much blew up half my defence line.:p
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#23 Capt.Drake

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 01:50 PM

The cyber general isn't bad if you use a combination of all drones avavibal, but still many will get destroyed and will and that ranks up your enemy, but when you reached level 5 there is no hold against the cyber general

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#24 M.E.C.H.

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 04:00 PM

The cyber general isn't bad if you use a combination of all drones avavibal, but still many will get destroyed and will and that ranks up your enemy, but when you reached level 5 there is no hold against the cyber general

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Thats right, but you cant survive till then (if playing against hard enemy or human :p )
As for the airforce, i dont think that he is weak !
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#25 Guest_ChesStrategy_*

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 08:27 PM

I have been following this mod around for a long time and each time a new version of the contra mod is made, I download it and LAN with my friends. One of my friends has created a rushing strategy that makes GLA nearly invincible (especially Demolition)

Basically he would build those worker bikers,which are 5 times faster than an average dozer, sends them to the enemies' bases and builds defense sites AT the enemys' base...by the time a few are built, the other person (who can be ANY Chinese or US army) who has only a barracks and 1 or 2 gatling or patriots will almost always die...

I dunno if this should be considered to unfair...because during this span of opportunistic time, GLA is the best (having mostly in-expensive units and not requiring a general Rank of 3 to get the majority of his/her good weapons)...however if they wait for USA or China to build up then and rank up..THEN it becomes hard for GLA.

Everyone should try the GLA defense site rushing strategy..and tell me what you guys think.

Contra is STILL one of the most balanced mods Ive seen so far (and Im impressed)...its just that GLA seems almost TOO good in the beginning...especially if u try out that tactic with Demolition general.

#26 M.E.C.H.

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 08:33 PM

I have been following this mod around for a long time and each time a new version of the contra mod is made, I download it and LAN with my friends. One of my friends has............its just that GLA seems almost TOO good in the beginning...especially if u try out that tactic with Demolition general.

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Well i dont like rush ! I always want a fair fight !!!!!!
I wait till the opponent has the right army then i make a fight, and if i win, i hit strategic positions and then march into base ! :D
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#27 Gredinus

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 08:57 PM

well ill try it on my next LAN party :D

Edited by Gredinus, 20 October 2005 - 08:58 PM.

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#28 Creator

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 09:20 PM

Well i dont like rush ! I always want a fair fight !!!!!!
I wait till the opponent has the right army then i make a fight, and if i win, i hit strategic positions and then march into base ! :D

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No, rush is cool. Biker Terrorist rush is good as well. Also tank general can make late tank rush with gattlings, battle masters and troop crawlers. Such tank rush cal level any USA base in the begining. But my favorite is cyber general drone rush.

Edited by Creator, 21 October 2005 - 07:59 AM.


#29 Guest_ChesStrategy_*

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 09:22 PM

JUST MY OPINION with the overall strengths of all the generals:
(not vs computer...but versus other humans)

Definitions: Early game (gameplay before reaching rank 3)
Late Game (Reaching rank 3 and surpassing most promotion requirements)

USA:

Air Force:
Does not have a decent long range mobile defense (like artillery) from start.
A little weaker due to the fact that massive amounts of Stealths must be built to counter long range (to compensate for lack of artillery or long range defense in Early Game) Still sort of hard since my friends send either massive gatling tanks or quad cannons to protect their fast mortar buggys and their chinese artillery

Laser:
Laser is only slightly better since they have anhilators. Sadly, they are only accessed in Late Game :lol: and cannot help in early game... plus they dont seem to be able to shoot air (even tho the description says so)
Laser commaches seem very weak. Point defensive lasers on buildings are nice :D however all the defenses go bye bye if an anhilator blows up

If only the anhilator does not anhilate so much when it dies...then Laser should be much fairer and better. Also..considering that SW general is so overpowered...I think a good rebalance is to give Laser Gen the Power Rods upgrade from SW's power plants, Laser needs them more badly than SuperWeapon. Put Normal rod upgrades on SW makes SW gen SO much fairer...while still keeping her cool weapons.

SuperWeapon (SW):
Overpowered in Late Game, early game...fairer than before, when there were no promotion restrictions

Cybernetic:
Have not played yet...although cybernetic from previous experiences show that it is relatively weaker than most generals

CHINA:

Tank:
China tanks got nuclear tank upgrades yea! (if they did before...I dont remember them having it) China seems better with its new late game inmobile artillery...however it would be nice if they had a weak, relatively in-expensive mobile artillery in early game. I tried using china air (helixes) to compensate for this..but once again my friends use quad cannons and gatlings to protect their artillery. I personally dont see the use for banshees and ecm tanks since they only use their missile jamming shield for themselves...would be cool if there fields can be devoted to protect other units. (My personal favorite has always been tank general)

Nuke:

Nuke is overpowered as usual...(note: SW and Nuke are cool...but doesnt get rid of the fact that they are overpowered). In my opinion, nuke structures should be more explosive (self splash damaging when destroyed) to compensate for their overwhelming power. So that with great power comes at the sacrifice of a very combustable base.


Infanty:

Pretty balanced and fair...one only prob was that in Contra 3 (even with limited superweapons) Infantry can build massive amts of internet centers for stacking the Hack III ability...make it possible for (technically) infinite generals powers...I dunno if that was fixed in 04

Flame:

Seems much better; The flame 'arurora' like plane actually seems fair (compared to the USA auroras) since it does not do as much damage as USA auroras.

I believe (not specifically talking about Flame anymore..just in general) Attack power IMO should be greatly sacrificed for the ability to not get shot down be4 delivering a payload. If something gets the aurora's ability...it better be fairly weak in damage.

GLA:

Demolition:
Have not played..but one of my friends always plays at him..the defense site rush strategy seems unstoppable (applicable to most GLA sides...but especially Demo and Chemical who can build various things in their defense sites)

Assault:
Have not played much

Chemical:
Did not play yet or have seen

Stealth:
Stealth used to be weak, now they are much better

GLA (overall):
I would think logically that GLA is alot more powerful overall since China and USA have been humbled ALOT by the promotion restrictions. GLA does not need power and most of its units are availible and decent enough to easily overpower the other 2 sides during early game. (I think worker bikers should either have their speed reduced a little or as a sacrifice for their great speed that they build buildings/defenses slightly slower than workers...otherwise why use workers? than just worker bikers?

An important note: this are just my opinions and recent observations. I still am grateful that Creator and alot of other people are willing to put much effort in this mod. :lol:

#30 Pendaelose

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 09:57 PM

JUST MY OPINION with the overall strengths of all the generals:
(not vs computer...but versus other humans)
Flame:

Seems much better; The flame 'arurora' like plane actually seems fair (compared to the USA auroras) since it does not do as much damage as USA auroras.

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I'm a little confused which one you are talking about... there is an "Aurora like" plane for flame in Remix, but I've not seen one in Contra... Yet, the lvl restriciton you talked about are only in Contra...
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Between now and the next polished release there should be very little new art work done. Instead the focus is on designing, testing, and fixing. the mod has always been so close to finished that its nearly criminal. I'd love to see this through to the end with a real community effort.


#31 Guest_Guest_ChesStrategy_*_*

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 12:56 AM

I'm a little confused which one you are talking about... there is an "Aurora like" plane for flame in Remix, but I've not seen one in Contra... Yet, the lvl restriciton you talked about are only in Contra...


Oh yea...your right pendalose...that one is from your remix..I guess I got mixed up since I played 2.75 once right before I started playing Contra 04

#32 Gredinus

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 08:02 AM

well GLA is good in ealry game but im a turtle gen so that dossent help as much.

and against SupW is the Stealth Gen, becose he can make multiple bases and then when attacking sabutage his power suply and attack.

Edited by Gredinus, 21 October 2005 - 08:03 AM.

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#33 Capt.Drake

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 12:30 PM

I think like many others airforce is too week, especally in early game, he needs some kind of better tank then the MCV I would suggest something weeker then the antitankcannon which has the some anti infantery power, but much less anti tank power and a higer fireingspeed

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#34 Capt.Drake

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 12:37 PM

With the antitank cannon I mean the sniper from the tank general I even have an bttter idea give him the striker vehicle family I'll give you a link here

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#35 M.E.C.H.

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 02:56 PM

With the antitank cannon I mean the sniper from the tank general I even have an bttter idea give him the striker vehicle family I'll give you a link here

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Nope..."stryker" is an american tank not an chineese ! I BET THAT HE WONT DO THIS ! :D
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#36 Capt.Drake

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 03:09 PM

I suggested it to replace the MCV and to have three different upgrades for it first this Dual Propose thing than Infanterie Transport with an Machine Gun and Third a Target aquisting version which is stealt while not moving and has no weapons and can mark targets

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#37 Pendaelose

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 03:17 PM

With the antitank cannon I mean the sniper from the tank general I even have an bttter idea give him the striker vehicle family I'll give you a link here

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Nope..."stryker" is an american tank not an chineese ! I BET THAT HE WONT DO THIS ! :D

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Mech, read both hos posts.. he is already talking about giving it to AirF.
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Between now and the next polished release there should be very little new art work done. Instead the focus is on designing, testing, and fixing. the mod has always been so close to finished that its nearly criminal. I'd love to see this through to the end with a real community effort.


#38 M.E.C.H.

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 04:20 PM

Mech, read both hos posts.. he is already talking about giving it to AirF.

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Yes i know....i thought that he was talking for CTG ! :p
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#39 Guest_retry_1_*

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 11:52 PM

lasergen is wayyyyyyyyyy underpowered

#40 renegadezero

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 12:23 AM

laser is WAY WAY underpowered (at least to me) due to 3 reasons: 1: he hasnt got much anti air at all in the beggining... ONLY turrets (which are immobile planes can go around them easilly and they can get destroyed quite easilly by stealth fighters) and laser defenders (if you think these are enough... no offense but they just dont cut it. a comanche can kill 1 easilly enough so about 5 comanches could kill 6 laser defenders (and im sure more) quite easilly) so hes VERY weak vs the air gen due to this and basically anyone who would rush him with air. 2: hes also quite weak vs infantry... he doesnt have much anti inf in the beggining aside from the ARV and APC (which rangers CANT fire out of even though it says it can) and microwave tank. (and i dont think it damages infantry its around anymore...) 3: and why are his laser turrets so bad vs infantry? if anything it should fry them. i understand the laser tank not being effective vs them but the turret?... that and it isnt as good as it should be... its quite weak now and hasnt even got a relay...

ok now one more issue: on the site (BEFORE 004 was released) it said each army would have a minor artillery unit as one of the balance fixes to stop turtlers... but some armies (such as the USA cybernetic general) still dont so if your enemy turtles theyll stop all your attacks (since drones are lightly armored) and rank up leaveing you behind unless you rush...

ok im done.

Edited by renegadezero, 22 October 2005 - 12:25 AM.





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