74 replies to this topic

[Samael]

Freedom, what is this word does it mean we are free or thinking we are free. Since the time the first Americans that bulit this world on freedom and given rights to what can be free. But as time rolled on I never wished to see this. Water has not became free no more and same has fresh oxygen, this planet give us oxygen and water, why the hell do companies have the right to make profit off of it. I know they purfry the water and air so it can be clean to use but why do companies can make profits off of the freedoms we have. Has this world gone mad or is this the first path to Fascism, I mean stripping us of our rights.

What do you guys think of this. Should this continue or be stopped.

[AdmiralGT]

1) America did not "build" the world. Most European nations were off conquering countries even before the United States existed.

2) Who is going to pay for giving you drinking water then? Are you prepared to go and get your own water? Distill your own water? You can still go get free water by going off to a stream or the sea, it probably won't be very good water, but it will still be clean.

3) Who is charging for fresh oxygen? I've yet to see anyone put a price on oxygen, other than purified oxygen, which takes some doing to actually make.

4) Why are people allowed to own land, surely it's my "freedom" to go and live whereever I want, on whichever piece of land I choose? Surely it is my "freedom" to go and kill whomever I want? Surely it is my "freedom" to enter someone else's property?

Freedom is the ability to choose your action, not to be able to take any action.

[Ash]

Freedom is something we all strive for but can never have. No matter what there'll be something to inhibit our actions. We are not free to choose. We never can be.

Freedom is the ability to do whatever you want so long as you are willing to accept the consequence. Even that's been stripped away long ago.

[Samael]

2) Who is going to pay for giving you drinking water then? Are you prepared to go and get your own water? Distill your own water? You can still go get free water by going off to a stream or the sea, it probably won't be very good water, but it will still be clean.

Yes I know public water companies do clean the water for us to drink and get it free at a bubbler. I ment companies that make profits off of it(Aquafina and etc). The water that is purfried and put into bottles and sold at a store claiming that their water is better then water you drink from a bubbler.

There has been research down on this and 4 of the 6 companies they did research on say that the water in water bottles are the same as water from you own home.

3) Who is charging for fresh oxygen? I've yet to see anyone put a price on oxygen, other than purified oxygen, which takes some doing to actually make.

There is a small company that is trying to start up here in my city and they came to door to door asking if you want a better healthier living envoriment with their freaher oxygen for your house hold. There are companies out there it is just they are not big enough to be known.

Edited by Samael, 16 November 2005 - 02:18 AM.

[ihateharriers]

as a resident of the US, i am disappointed to see that everything must have a price. i am disappointed to see that everywhere we go, everything we watch or listen to, anything at all must have some sort of advertisement attached to it. i watch TV now and in virtually every shot you see there is some sort of advertisement for some product somewhere. is this right? i think not. it is the equivalant of a government using propoganda to control the thoughts of their subjects. every product is promising hapiness and all the other usual crap because they want you to live in their perfect world with their perfect products so that you will be "happy" and they will sitting on enough cash to make your head spin. this sounds crazy, but nowadays, these companies don't care at all about the comsumer, they only care aout the money they get, much of actually doesn't come form coonsumers. it comes form those who want to televise their products so that we can see how glorious they are. the world, not just america, is on a slow decline that is starting to gain speed. there isn't much we can do about it because many of the governments make money off of these people, so why would they prevent that? we just have to say no, i don't want to see or hear or even have to deal this bullshit anymore, and given enough pressure, these companies will back down.

[Tom]

1) America did not "build" the world. Most European nations were off conquering countries even before the United States existed.

The United States is still "controlled" from london, from the queen. The illusion of democracy just masks the elite order above it. The United states has never been "free" none of us have any real freedom. They control what we are and are not allowed to experience with "mind prisons" and propaganda.

2) Who is going to pay for giving you drinking water then? Are you prepared to go and get your own water? Distill your own water? You can still go get free water by going off to a stream or the sea, it probably won't be very good water, but it will still be clean.

To be honest there are many small purifiers that are very effective out there that people can use. I think people need to learn how to purify their water. The stuff we get from our taps includes chlorine and floride and other nasty poisons which they say helps protect your teeth. Many scientists have proved quite the opposite.

"Paying" people to do the job is pointless. Simply because we can do it ourselves. By paying people we are selling our minds to these people and they assure us the water we drink is perfectly safe, they assure us our money is going to good use. The reliance on government and corporate bodies is a big problem that people ignore and pretend is "normal."

4) Why are people allowed to own land, surely it's my "freedom" to go and live whereever I want, on whichever piece of land I choose? Surely it is my "freedom" to go and kill whomever I want? Surely it is my "freedom" to enter someone else's property?

Freedom goes so far to where your not affecting anyone elses freedom or free will. Thats how morals work. As you said, freedom is the ability to choose AN EXPERIENCE, not just simply an action.

Freedom is something we all strive for but can never have. No matter what there'll be something to inhibit our actions. We are not free to choose. We never can be.

Since when? Whats this "we never can be." The current times are "dark," yes? We are in between a shift of enlightenment. Simply these next few years MIGHT be the reason why we live now. If God is indeed infinite, that means we have infinite free will to choose where we want to experience our next life. Personally I am beginning to think I CHOSE to come to this world at this time. However obviously if thats true i cannot find out until i'm dead, as with everything

Still its my view that between now and 2015 we will see a huge amount of movement in people. I think freedom from this control could be a result of the "prophecy." Time will tell. If nothing happens then we can all go grab some weed and get high

[Ash]

What makes you so sure? The current world is so wrapped up in itself that it cannot even see itself stagnate and crumble and descend further and further.

What's worse...even if there IS a revolution, what's gonna happen? The same people who are running the world now will run it again. Even if they promise freedom and all other wonderful things...they won't deliver! They'll do it the same. Or ten times worse.

[Tom]

I'm not talking about a revolution ash. I'm talking about a monsterous nuclear war. Everyone knows of its possibility and its one of the most dangerous threats to man today. If a third world war happens whoever remains after would simply be changed people.

[Hostile]

as a resident of the US, i am disappointed to see that everything must have a price.  i am disappointed to see that everywhere we go, everything we watch or listen to, anything at all must have some sort of advertisement attached to it.  i watch TV now and in virtually every shot you see there is some sort of advertisement for some product somewhere. is this right? i think not.  it is the equivalant of a government using propoganda to control the thoughts of their subjects.  every product is promising hapiness and all the other usual crap because they want you to live in their perfect world with their perfect products so that you will be "happy" and they will sitting on enough cash to make your head spin. this sounds crazy, but nowadays, these companies don't care at all about the comsumer, they only care aout the money they get, much of actually doesn't come form coonsumers.  it comes form those who want to televise their products so that we can see how glorious they are.  the world, not just america, is on a slow decline that is starting to gain speed. there isn't much we can do about it because many of the governments make money off of these people, so why would they prevent that? we just have to say no, i don't want to see or hear or even have to deal this bullshit anymore, and given enough pressure, these companies will back down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen bro. I'm so sick of seeing adverts everywhere I look. Down right sick and tired...

[Kazyumi]

I'm sick of if too Hostile, probably its not as worse in the NL as it is in America.
I keep on falling back to this quote, as it applies to what Ihateharriers said in the bit you quoted..

We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra.

God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact.

Edited by Holly-gan, 19 November 2005 - 09:52 AM.

[Samael]

Now something else that is being rid of our freedom, internet gambling. Do you gamble over the net you might not but 1,000s are. Casinos are getting a little pissed about gambling going to the net instead of more people going to the casinos. Do you know how easy it is, you can even play on the net gambling with someone in China at your own house without going anywhere and in you undershorts.

http://www.cbsnews.c...in1052420.shtml
They are talking about the casino owners that want the federal gov't to stop or tax and control the net gambling.

I say to that, that is BS because what about those who don't like traveling or can't afford to travel to the casinos to make a $100 bet and win or lose. I think these Assholes should leave it alone and go wine about something else. Even one casino from the show said they are doing a off shore gambling that let only forgein people only(not US memebers) to play. I questioned that and I figured it out, they want us Americans to gamble at a safe right resort and blow in our money at their resort instead of doing it on the net.

I am a little pissed at that because my dad and me do gambling on the net a little with money and I think that is BS.

What do you guys think.

Edited by Samael, 21 November 2005 - 03:24 AM.

[Blodo]

Freedom is just a buzzword. Any governments saying their countries are "free" are putting up a blatant lie.

[ComradeJ]

Bah, Freedom. When was that word even invented? Probably somewhere during the French Revolution. I doubt the concept is as important as everyone thinks. Freedom would equal individuality, since every man would be totally different from the other. And what have we got more individuality? Poverty, poor care for the lower classes... Simply said, freedom divides. The current state of the world is because governments have the freedom to do what serves their bank accounts best.

[Tom]

True, but we are the only ones that allow ourselves not to be free. We blame each other for our own faults, we give power away to others and give our minds away to "governments." We have no one but ourselves to blame. This decade is going to be the biggest battle for humanity ever. It will not be entirely physical, it will be mental. The battle for the collective mind of humanity.

We make the governments, without us governments don't exist. We now have the chance to change this world. We don't even need to be violent, there just needs to be a mass spiritual shift. It's already happening. As our solar system completes its 24000 year orbit around the "black sun" it will meet energies from other galaxies and solar systems, which will help feed our own.

Freedom is in the mind, it is not physical. No one can physically control you for ever, but if they control your mind, set the norms of society, get the herd of humans to be sheppards for each other and govern each other with the "norms," put fear in people for being themselves, crush ourselves spiritually, then there is no freedom. Freedom is a choice of ours, not a choice of anyone else.

[Blodo]

True, but we are the only ones that allow ourselves not to be free. We blame each other for our own faults, we give power away to others and give our minds away to "governments." We have no one but ourselves to blame. This decade is going to be the biggest battle for humanity ever. It will not be entirely physical, it will be mental. The battle for the collective mind of humanity.

What? I could go on and on about how we actually need a government now and in the sooner future, you'll just top it down with the word "indoctrination" so i won't even bother. My opinion is clear.

As our solar system completes its 24000 year orbit around the "black sun" it will meet energies from other galaxies and solar systems, which will help feed our own.

Where in the hell did you pull this out of?

[Drewry]

Where in the hell did you pull this out of?

You know you should really take tom more seriously, he isnt making this stuff up.

http://hypertextbook...tacyLeong.shtml

He was off by a few thousand years, but the basis of the information was correct. These scientist all have different results of what our cosmic year is, but the latest 2 of 240 and 250 million years seem to be most accurate. Since they both were taken in 2002, had generally the same results, and even though they were much off from the older versions, I am going to trust this one since we have HIGHLY better technology in 2002 than we did in the 80s. So im going to average this and say our cosmic year is 245 million years. That would mean the last time the sun was in this exact spot, the dinosausr were roaming the earth. The black sun he is referring to is the black hole at the center of the milky way.

Edited by Drewry, 28 November 2005 - 09:51 AM.

[Ash]

To be fair, that does seem like a crazy theory...energies from other solar systems...bah.

Tom, don't you dare tell me you're getting into astrology. Life's problems on Earth cannot be blamed on Neptune or Jupiter.


Earth's problems can only be blamed on human kind, its natural stupidity, gullibility and downright inability to see past its own nose. As Tom rightly says, we give away our own freedom so readily it's untrue.

[ComradeJ]

People just complain to what they're promised. It used to be wealth and power. If a government provided wealth and power to its people, it was a good government, it it didn't, it was a bad government. After the French Revolution, people saw that you can't give everyone wealth and power, so they made up freedom. In other words, the government only has to make it possible for you to gain either. Given the enormous stupidity of mankind, democracy isn't always the best options. What modern people tend to forget is that a good dictature works better than a good democracy. Democracy, and it's promise of 'freedom' (which means: you can't blaim the government for being poor), is just a secure way, it has a tendency not to go crazy on the world, but it's not better than a monarchy or any other form of government.

[Tom]

To be fair, that does seem like a crazy theory...energies from other solar systems...bah.

Tom, don't you dare tell me you're getting into astrology. Life's problems on Earth cannot be blamed on Neptune or Jupiter.

We will see in 2012. Research pole shifts. It seems "global warming" may be a lie to misguide us from the truth. When the sun lets out flares these flares give energies to the earth. These energies interfere with the magnetic field of the earth and can cause a pole shift. Thats where the magnetic poles swap, north becomes south, south becomes north, obviously. If this is true then its predicted the earth will come to a halt in 2012 and then start spinning the other way. Would explain global warming. Alot of this is in the bible symbolically and other religious books. Like 3 day days - the sun doesn't go down for 3 days (a pole shift when the earth stops).

If the theory of energies from other solar systems does interfere with ourselves, we will notice it. Maybe why the world elite are trying to centralise power so quickly. The ancients knew of this, what if the "elite" had that ancient knowledge. If the theory is true, then we will see great change from now to 2015 and no matter what happens, it will be for the better.

Earth's problems can only be blamed on human kind, its natural stupidity,

Wouldn't call it "natural." We don't know why we have become to foolish, there are many theories but if i suggested them you'd call me mad. Not that i care, my current views of possibilities get me enough of that. As i said 2012 will answer much if it turns out to be true.

As Tom rightly says, we give away our own freedom so readily it's untrue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We did, or were we manipulated genetically? Scientists see parts of our DNA that mean nothing as if there was more. Instead of 2 helixes (or whatever they are called) imagine if we were meant to have 12. We will see, only time will tell.

What? I could go on and on about how we actually need a government now and in the sooner future, you'll just top it down with the word "indoctrination" so i won't even bother. My opinion is clear.

Seriously man, please do. Because then i can argue my reasons to it. I won't simply use "indoctrination" i will explain as much as i can. If your reason for a government is "insecurity" then who makes the insecurity? We do. We can fix it without a government. They make the problem, we feel insecure, they give the solution. It's called manipulation. Our reaction and stupidity gives them power. Problem-Reaction-Solution.

People just complain to what they're promised. It used to be wealth and power. If a government provided wealth and power to its people, it was a good government, it it didn't, it was a bad government.

True, but even a good government could have different intentions deep down. Benefits are simply another form of control. They take power from people. People become part of the "system" or the "state." Lose induviduality because they don't take responsibility for themselves. There are always alternatives. People would say the alternative to capitalism is communism, but its an "opposame" as David Icke puts it. Both are "isms," both are close minded. Both use the same system of control, just slight different ideology. They create a divide in the people. That law is called divide and rule.

After the French Revolution, people saw that you can't give everyone wealth and power, so they made up freedom. In other words, the government only has to make it possible for you to gain either.

The government doesn't have to do ANYTHING. The people decide the rules, the laws. People are brainwashed into thinking a "government" can only make decisions about people. They would rather give their power to a few because they are too spiritually or socially immature to look after themselves. After a long time i even saw what john aka allied general was talking about. Who has responsibility for your life? You. Who is responsible for the food you eat and the stuff in it, you. Who is responsible for if your government is full of corrupt pigs in suits named "democrats"? YOU. No one else. I've realised it after a long long time. No government works because it takes power from the masses and gives it to the few. And the few then manipulate it and the masses think "oh poor me." Victim mentality makes the victim reality.

Given the enormous stupidity of mankind, democracy isn't always the best options. What modern people tend to forget is that a good dictature works better than a good democracy.

Centralisation is a dangerous thing. If the UN suddenly said tommorrow after a nuke went off as a "terrorist attack." Lets make a world state and give security for all on planet earth, would you allow them to do that, providing its to keep you safe? Safe from what? Safe from "out there"? Safe from the invisible osama bin laden and his dog call osama bin woof woof? OOOOOH. I'm sorry, i can't emphaise enough how we are all being played. How we are all being played against each other by "right" and "left" wing views. Distracting us from the truth.

To the americans: Are you surprised to find Clinton slept with that Monica Lunisky whatever her name was women? Would you attack me if i said he was a paedophile, raped kids and was a satanist. As is George HW Bush and the psycopathic murder dick cheney? Whats the truth anymore? Does anyone care? No, they are more involved in blaming each other for their own problems. OMG, Osama blew up the WTC on 9/11, lets burn and shit on images of him. Who was to blame for 9/11? WE WERE. Because we allowed it to happen. 3000 people died. No matter who did it. The thing that really gets me about 9/11 if i was being frank is this. Who gained the most from it? Did the average american? Nop. Did osama bin laden? Nop. Did the american elite? Yes.

Those who gain the most from an atrocity, most likely committed it. Then again i wasn't here to argue that, it was just so people stopped blaming each other.

Democracy, and it's promise of 'freedom' (which means: you can't blaim the government for being poor), is just a secure way, it has a tendency not to go crazy on the world, but it's not better than a monarchy or any other form of government.

Unless when you create democracy you have 1 group, split it into 2 and play them off each other. People then vote for them, don't matter who wins. The public relations looks fine, the social relations look fine but behind the scenes, its the same people running the same agenda. Divide and rule, divide and rule. Conflict and evolve, conflict and evolve. Keep the people thinking whats going on is real. War war war, fight fight fight. I'm right, your wrong. OMG poor us, someone flew a plane into the pentagon, the government must do something.

Alright, i'm not "innocent" myself. You could say "practice what you preach tom" and i'd agree with you BUT we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves. Stop fighting each other because of what we think is right and wrong and just be ourselves. Life is an experience. When a problem comes up think "cause and effect." Why did this happen? What effect does it have? Right got it! Evolve mentally and move on. Learn from it. Wisdom is the ever flowing knowledge of our lives. We came here for wisdom, not for arguing over whos reality is best for humanity. If humanity stopped being "humanity" and became itself we would see things very very differently.

My 2.5 cents. Now give me a good arguement back No fuel an argument cannot burn.

[ComradeJ]

People just complain to what they're promised. It used to be wealth and power. If a government provided wealth and power to its people, it was a good government, it it didn't, it was a bad government.

True, but even a good government could have different intentions deep down. Benefits are simply another form of control. They take power from people. People become part of the "system" or the "state." Lose induviduality because they don't take responsibility for themselves. There are always alternatives. People would say the alternative to capitalism is communism, but its an "opposame" as David Icke puts it. Both are "isms," both are close minded. Both use the same system of control, just slight different ideology. They create a divide in the people. That law is called divide and rule.

What is 'good' other than giving benefits? Question the concepts that current society has. It used to be good if you killed for your homeland. Today, it isn't good if you kill anyway. Therefore, 'good' is no eternal concept, it's dependant on the period of time you live in.

After the French Revolution, people saw that you can't give everyone wealth and power, so they made up freedom. In other words, the government only has to make it possible for you to gain either.

The government doesn't have to do ANYTHING. The people decide the rules, the laws. People are brainwashed into thinking a "government" can only make decisions about people. They would rather give their power to a few because they are too spiritually or socially immature to look after themselves. After a long time i even saw what john aka allied general was talking about. Who has responsibility for your life? You. Who is responsible for the food you eat and the stuff in it, you. Who is responsible for if your government is full of corrupt pigs in suits named "democrats"? YOU. No one else. I've realised it after a long long time. No government works because it takes power from the masses and gives it to the few. And the few then manipulate it and the masses think "oh poor me." Victim mentality makes the victim reality.

Democratic and individualistic thinking. What empire ever grew out of individualism? What nation achieved greatness because of own responsibility? The best attempt at that is the current US... Which doesn't need much explanation, methinks.
Not that world conquest is the most important thing in the world, but it might get us less divided. If everyone is responsible for his own stuff, what happens to the dumb people, who can work, but can't think? They're left on their own, they live poor lives, die poor deaths and are forgotten by history, as an individual and as a whole. What has individualism ever done for us? It just promotes screwing over other people to get more power/money/'freedom'.

Given the enormous stupidity of mankind, democracy isn't always the best options. What modern people tend to forget is that a good dictature works better than a good democracy.

Centralisation is a dangerous thing. If the UN suddenly said tommorrow after a nuke went off as a "terrorist attack." Lets make a world state and give security for all on planet earth, would you allow them to do that, providing its to keep you safe? Safe from what? Safe from "out there"? Safe from the invisible osama bin laden and his dog call osama bin woof woof? OOOOOH. I'm sorry, i can't emphaise enough how we are all being played. How we are all being played against each other by "right" and "left" wing views. Distracting us from the truth.

The truth being what exactly?


I've been thinking a bit lately. Imagine 1984, but the world not in a poor state, but a rich, prosperous, happy one. Would that be bad?
I just love Deus Ex's Helios ending. Merging with a machine to create the ultimate incorruptible all-powerful dictator. Seems rather appealing, if you try and ignore what current society tries to tell you.

Is individuality not conflict?