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#21 Tom

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 08:11 PM

What is 'good' other than giving benefits? Question the concepts that current society has. It used to be good if you killed for your homeland. Today, it isn't good if you kill anyway. Therefore, 'good' is no eternal concept, it's dependant on the period of time you live in.

Thats it! What was good in 1933 is not good for us now. That is exact it. So what does that make "right" and "wrong"? A human illusion? Yes?

Democratic and individualistic thinking. What empire ever grew out of individualism? What nation achieved greatness because of own responsibility? The best attempt at that is the current US... Which doesn't need much explanation, methinks.
Not that world conquest is the most important thing in the world, but it might get us less divided. If everyone is responsible for his own stuff, what happens to the dumb people, who can work, but can't think? They're left on their own, they live poor lives, die poor deaths and are forgotten by history, as an individual and as a whole. What has individualism ever done for us? It just promotes screwing over other people to get more power/money/'freedom'.

We have never been "induviduals." We never stood "alone" and said "what am i?" We never said collectively "what are we?" We just said "we are communist, we are capitalist." The end. You cannot be induvidual by living the life of others, you have to live your own life. Whats more important? Community or money? Ask yourself that question. Your heading in a good direction CJ, not that i can "judge" that because my path is entirely different from yours.

If George Orwell wasn't an induvidual would he ever have wrote 1984? No he would not have. Induvidualism makes us who we are. Being ourselves. NOt being forced into a mind prison by the "norms" of society. Others judging what is right and what is wrong. You said yourself, right and wrong changes with the time. It simply does not exist. Think what you are saying. Freedom is of the mind and the soul, it cannot be found within each other, we can only find it without ourselves. Our self. Self. You and you alone can only give you your purpose.

Heres my evidence: Who are you ComradeJ? Tell me who you are. If you give me a response that says your a "student" or a "label" then your being forced by the norms of society. No one has ever been induvidualistic because one way or other society dictates their destiny and fate. Do we want to live that life or do we want to walk our own path?

The truth being what exactly?


I've been thinking a bit lately. Imagine 1984, but the world not in a poor state, but a rich, prosperous, happy one. Would that be bad?

A government would not exist. Why? Because power corrupts. So if it was perfect and everyone was happy, they would have to be free. Be themselves.

Is individuality not conflict?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it? If you accept yourself as an induvidual you would see who you really are. You would see you are more than a "lone" lost soul wondering this earth pointlessly looking for the meaning of life. You would then accept other people for who they were and stop judging them and forcing societies norms on them.

Humanity is a herd. We are like sheep, one follows the other. Difference is, the sheppard is not an external being, its internal. We all sheppard each other. We are all sheep dogs of each other. People fear what others think of them, thus they are imprisoned. This causes negative emotion. Negative emotion, negative view of life creates ignorance. Ignorances corrupts the soul and disconnects us from ourselves. Negativity gives off negative energy, whatever way you look at it. Negative energy makes a negative world. To free ourselves, we simply have to take back responsibility for ourselves and be who are really are.

As david icke says: "I am me, i am free." Thats all that matters. When you realise that, you disconnect yourself from the "matrix" you awaken and you start to really learn through your own eyes and not through the eyes of a stranger.

#22 Tom

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 08:17 PM

Another thought. Say you had children or think about your parents. No matter what your kid did or what you did. Your parents never stopped loving you. They accepted you for who you were, unless they were fucked.

You would accept your children for who they are. Love them until the end of time on this earth and love them in the world beyond too. If everyone did that to everyone else we would become tolerent and accept the truth. The only truth is infinite love, everything else is illusion. How does that conclusion come about? Because love is the only thing that is creative, hate and fear is destructive. For us to exist we had to be created, either by nature or "creation." That is love. Create.

To have kids, you have to love. Whether thats yourself by "shagging someone" or love someone else as a wife and what a family. You create your kids from love. Get it? Its the truth. Love is the only truth, everything else is illusion.

Creation is eternal. WE live on beyond this life and return "home" to the realms of infinite love. To ourselves.

I say i am against George W bush, David Rockfeller, a head of the new world order. The queen, dick cheney etc. But does that mean i HATE them. No. I really should love them. Imagine everyone else as a child of yours. You'd accept their mistakes and hope they could learn from it. Kids make bad choices and get in some shit, but you still love them no matter what.

If humanity wants to fix itself, it has to have the courage to refind itself, to free itself. To LOVE. The collective mind and energies of humanity relies on it. We all make mistakes, we learn from the mistakes, we move on. Everyone learns from other peoples mistakes. WE EVOLVE from WISDOM. Thats where eternal wisdom comes from. Even if dick cheney is in my view "evil" he still can learn from his mistakes.

Whats different between a wise man aged 75 and a child age 7? Nothing, just time has different effect on them. They learn from mistakes, even to the day of death. Humanities collective mind relies upon this love. We are all children to creation, we must learn from it.

#23 Blodo

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 09:14 PM

So, let me get this right: Doesnt matter if they hate you, they hurt you and they kill your babies you are supposed to stand there "loving them". George W. Bush is a person who is not even worth of any interest whatsoever. He is bland, like a clone.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#24 Tom

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 09:34 PM

Rofl. What does humanity solve by taking "revenge." Only more death and destruction. Yes lets kill them! When we forever look upon life like this love will never succeed. To act just as you said is to become what you hate. Thats is contradiction in the deepest sense my friend.

#25 Ragged

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 09:38 PM

I agree with what Hybrid said. At all times in human history governments have used their citizens to benefit themselves, no matter how many lives they needed to destroy, how much lies they needed to say, or how many people they needed to betray to achieve a desirable effect. People are scared into believing that government has a solution and that the solution will be beneficial, because "this is our government, therefore it cares about us". The kind of thing that Orwell talks about in 1984.

American society is disinagrating. The level of education in an average American school is ridiculous compared to that of Europe. Everywhere you look you are being indoctrinated. You go to church, they tell you that if you do so and so you will surely be damned. You watch news they say that if you don't do so and so you will get blown away by a suicide bomber. You watch commercial only to hear that if you don't buy their product you will not get laid. Movies tell us that only rich are happy, and if a person is poor its his own damn fault, because he refused to sell his soul for 5 silver coins. Media tells us what beauty is, television sets the standard for what’s right or wrong, moral or immoral, Baptists have monopoly on truth. Government uses all the above things to keep people occupied by the pursuit of this illusion, and keep them distracted from the atrocities that happen over seas.

This is happening in every country on the face of the earth, America is just a convenient example. There is always someone who is trying to get the best of you through any means necessary. This is how its been from the origin of inequality. People are sheep, with no mind of their own. It's like in MIB. K says something along the lines of: "A person as smart, but people are stupid, panicky, etc."

Sadly, money makes the world go around. People will always remain selfish and ignoble when it comes to money and wealth. I think that the only actual way that it can be changed is if we get invaded by aliens. Then we might unite against a common threat, we better because if not we are doomed.
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." ~ Voltaire

#26 Blodo

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 10:19 PM

Amazingly enough humanity would require a perpetual war to live and propser. Cold war made us advance ourselves faster than the entire middle ages did, also pushing up humankinds life standards those small little bits up.

Tom: Its not revenge its self defence. If you're attacked you do not turn the other cheek, you fight back or the attacker will push you around and take away your rights.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#27 Ash

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 10:37 AM

I don't have time to do a full uber reply, but I will say this in reply to something Tom said earlier:

The Earth will NOT start spinning the other way. What happens is that the magnetic poles swap ends. Compasses will point South instead of North. The only thing that will change is that we'll need to redo our compasses for the next 10,000 years, and birds'll have to learn which way to migrate, but the Earth won't suddenly go backwards. That's absurd!

#28 ComradeJ

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 12:05 PM

First of all, agreed with the other CJ. I saw a documentary about it long ago, and the only that changes is the compasses. That's all, and it doesn't matter especially much - you just have to learn the N stands for South, the S for North, the W for East and the E for West. That's it.

Basically, humanity's problem is that it can only progress if it is united. But unity would need a government, which would turn corrupt, and screw over its people to keep into power.
Humanity needs an absolute, incorruptible power. Which it can't provide itself.
Wasn't that the plot of I, Robot (didn't really pay attention to the movie)? That the AI wanted to govern humanity, because it can't do so itself? Seemed like a nice alternative to modern society to me, but it is something to far from our current state people won't accept it.

As Ragged pointed out, freedom doesn't exist. Humanity is a worshipping organism. It will always need something to worship. Even the people who call themselves atheist are influenced by either commercials, celebrities, science, fashion, what-ever. The problem is that the worshipped one is always human. Even in religion's case, where the rulemaker is really the boss (indeed, I don't believe God wrote the Bible. Sue me).
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#29 Blodo

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 09:22 PM

Humanity needs a great war or great depression to have a cause to fight and prosper for. If the cause is fulfilled we start looking for a new one, hence new wars etc.

War is something that is built into our consciousness, i recently just realised it cant be uprooted and make us a peaceful race, it just wont happen. Humanity needs a cause more than it needs uncorruptible leadership, because when leaders believe in a cause so much they would give their lives for it - only then are they incorruptible.

The perfect example: the cold war. As cynical as it may sound the worst thing to happen to us after wolrd war 2 is the END of the cold war. Humanity literaly stopped prospering in 1980. There were no breakthroughs, no new inventions that would revolutionise everything in the last 25 years.

I await your thoughts on this.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#30 Tom

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 09:52 PM

I agree with what Hybrid said. At all times in human history governments have used their citizens to benefit themselves, no matter how many lives they needed to destroy, how much lies they needed to say, or how many people they needed to betray to achieve a desirable effect. People are scared into believing that government has a solution and that the solution will be beneficial, because "this is our government, therefore it cares about us".  The kind of thing that Orwell talks about in 1984.

Orwells real name was "Ian BLAIR." BLAIR. Uh ho. Maybe theres somehow orwell knew of this "secret agenda."

American society is disinagrating.

Is it actually disintergrating due to the education and the control or because its part of a even higher agenda? How could a world state exist with a "super power," what if the aim is to destroy the only superpower. It served its purpose. It did the dirty work and served as a pound for the people to throw their anger at. Look what america is doing! Bombing Iraqis! We HATE AMERICA AHHHH!! So the US served its purpose, took its punch for the agenda and now its left to die, economically, socially and fearfully. We'll see...


television sets the standard for what’s right or wrong, moral or immoral,

Yes, TV sets have a certain frequency that literally hypnotises people to them. Ever tried speaking to a member of your family when they are watching TV. *look at you, listen for a second* ZONG! *Back to the tv, realise they should be focusing on you, look at you listen for a second* ZONG! There they go again. Amazing isn't it?

Sadly, money makes the world go around.

Money was created simply for control. When the agenda needed it they simply centralise it slowly and slowly under the scope of "corporations." Hows this work? Corporations take over small businesses, then super corporations take over other corporations, so on. And people think "ah its just business, nothing wrong with it." Whats the difference, its fucking communism! Thats is not a FREE MARKET. "Yeah, we hate those commie bastards." Look at HOME sunshine, those "commie bastards" rule you.

I think that the only actual way that it can be changed is if we get invaded by aliens. Then we might unite against a common threat, we better because if not we are doomed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh. They know this. I tell you my friend, there is technology that exists that we don't even think is possible yet. A stage alien invasion would be amazing for controlling people. OMG look! FEAR! Aliens are coming! Problem-reaction-solution.

What if aliens landed on earth long before "humanity" existed? Or manipulated our species and DNA. How would anyone know? They wouldn't until people think "how the fuck did the build the pyramids, how the hell did stonehenge get built."

"Oh the ancient humans did that. Pre-evolved man managed to lift hundreds and thousands of tonnes of brick, rock and stone and place it on top of each other." Amazing. Did you know jewish slaves built the pyramids? They carved it and pushed these huge hundred tonnes of rock and stone up a hill, which they also built and made entire pyramids.

I dunno, something raises a question in my mind when i see that. No matter what someone says, did we witness it?

Amazingly enough humanity would require a perpetual war to live and propser.

Where do you get the illusion you need war to take power back. No one can physically stop you if you say "i am me, i am free, if you don't like that fuck off." Everyone does that, no war, oh no govenrment influence. Everyone respects everyone. Its ridiculous that people think the only way for humanity to move forward is by launching nukes at each other, except those fucking kangeroos and their aussie pets. :cool:

The war exists, it is for the control of your mind, which is the ONLY way they can control you.

Cold war made us advance ourselves faster than the entire middle ages did, also pushing up humankinds life standards those small little bits up.

Us or them? I guess it did, but also it set way for the future. Soviet Russia vs Capitalist West. We "win," they soviets resigned, handed russia over to Putin... amazingly an ex KBG officer. Hmm, something smells, and its not their vodka. Sorry for being so blunt, but lets put it this way. War = winners for elitism, losers for people.

World War I = League of Nations and set up for World war 2
World War II = UN, EU, Cold War and .... ISRAEL. A major player in the "anti-christ prophecy" which is also fake and set up.
Cold war = Nuclear weapons, weapon enhancement, illusion of an "enemy." You know, just like terrorism. The commies, those invisible commie bastards. They shot our president in 1969 just as he decided the CIA needed to have less power.
Now the war on terrorism. The stronghold in the middle east, maybe manipulation for what? World War III. If the middle east doesn't work, lets try china. First we must attack North Korea verbally. Get chinas ass moving, feeling insecure oh not just that. We need to piss china off.

Who knows?

Tom: Its not revenge its self defence. If you're attacked you do not turn the other cheek, you fight back or the attacker will push you around and take away your rights.

Uhm, are we here in the first place because the "attacker" attacked us? Your thinking that the police state is already "permenant." That doesn't happen until a few more disasters. Lets say maybe the break down of the economy and also civil unrest, just like in france. But then that was people being "free" right?

Blodo look at it this way mate. Say we had the power and these people were in captive? We captured them. Just a theory, it won't ever happen. Would you kill them there and then? I wouldn't, the issue was over when people opened their minds and stopped attacking each other.

Know how the humankind/manipulation work. We do most of the world for them. We give them a reaction, they give a solution. We attack each other for being "different" and put fear into each other.

When someone does something they don't think "oh what does Tony Blair think?" They think "what would my mother think, or my father, or my best mate?"

The Earth will NOT start spinning the other way. What happens is that the magnetic poles swap ends. Compasses will point South instead of North. The only thing that will change is that we'll need to redo our compasses for the next 10,000 years, and birds'll have to learn which way to migrate, but the Earth won't suddenly go backwards. That's absurd!

What happens when you flip a magnet over for a pole switch. The electronics switch and whatever is attracted to it also get attracted to the other end. It swaps over. It could easily explain the "3 day days" in the bible/ancient books. As i said. We will see if it happens. If it doesn't, oh well big deal. :ohmy:

Point: If the poles are switching and the theory was correct, it won't be "instant" it will slow and come to a stop, then start spinning the opposite way.

I saw a documentary about it long ago, and the only that changes is the compasses. That's all, and it doesn't matter especially much - you just have to learn the N stands for South, the S for North, the W for East and the E for West. That's it.

Uhm? Wouldn't the compasses automatically do that for us? Why? Because they work with the earths magnetic field. East doesn't suddenly become west. I know thats not what you meant, but get the picture?

Basically, humanity's problem is that it can only progress if it is united. But unity would need a government, which would turn corrupt, and screw over its people to keep into power.

NO! Centralisation is the danger. You cannot unite humanity under a robotic state, that is total and utter bullshit. Humanity needs to learn who it really is, be itself. Everyone will respect everyone and then we will get somewhere.


Humanity needs an absolute, incorruptible power. Which it can't provide itself.

Since when? Where are you getting this from? Humanity is the power, we forge our own destiny, we don't need a minority to lead us there. That would make mind prisons. Think like this or your not part of the herd. Woopty doo, i can't sing baa baa black sheep anymore because i might insult people with darker skin colour. :shiftee:

Wasn't that the plot of I, Robot (didn't really pay attention to the movie)? That the AI wanted to govern humanity, because it can't do so itself? Seemed like a nice alternative to modern society to me, but it is something to far from our current state people won't accept it.

The AI was programmed by us, so it would simply only think of our rules. Robots do not have a mind, the one who did worked against the robotic take over. What was the symbol of that? Think that to yourself. FREEDOM.

As Ragged pointed out, freedom doesn't exist. Humanity is a worshipping organism. It will always need something to worship.

How about itself? If that is infact true, why doesn't it worship its infinite nature? To remove the manipulation we have, we must be ourselves and become independant of the system. Reminds me of when Mad Cow Disease was going "around," "its ok we go it under control." Then more people get CJD. "Its ok its now under control" Few more people get it. Jesus christ, people didn't ask WHAT CAUSES CJD, they simply believed it was the meat and a disease caused by body parts. Thats very far from the truth. It was the growth hormones. Guess what? They are still using these hormones today. Then what makes it better: they keep animals in enclosed conditions, feed them shit, and imbalanced diet, which damages the immune system, then BSE gets worse in the animal. Then the animal dies of either BSE or another disease. We can't waste profits. So dead animals are then grinded up and fed back to others in "protein mixes" to make them fatter. Yet more profits. Any disease the dead animal has is passed on, including BSE. Solution: we stopped with the stupid processing, we get rid of the horrid conditions and everything goes 100% organic. Problem solved. Unlikely any animal will get BSE from our manipulation for profit. Thats independence. Of course, i can't really get a farm so i became vegitarian because i don't trust the meat and i physically went off of it when i was researching BSE/CJD.

Even the people who call themselves atheist are influenced by either commercials, celebrities, science, fashion, what-ever. The problem is that the worshipped one is always human. Even in religion's case, where the rulemaker is really the boss (indeed, I don't believe God wrote the Bible. Sue me).

Thats true. The problem would be belief then?

If i said this: Aliens rule the world. What would you say in response to that. And i want responses, don't hold back.

#31 Athena

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 10:16 PM

I'd say, yay we finally made it :shiftee: :cool: j/k.
I haven't read '1984' yet, but I'm planning on doing it once.

television sets the standard for what’s right or wrong, moral or immoral,

Yes, TV sets have a certain frequency that literally hypnotises people to them. Ever tried speaking to a member of your family when they are watching TV. *look at you, listen for a second* ZONG! *Back to the tv, realise they should be focusing on you, look at you listen for a second* ZONG! There they go again. Amazing isn't it?

My parents do that all the time when they are watching, and my little brother too. I can more easily turn my head away and listen (I don't watch a lot of TV anymore though), except when I'm playing an online game perhaps. TV (and media) do indeed set standards, which are sometimes just rediculous. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who still believe it all, and who actually let the media form their opinion on (political) subjects, moralityness and even their opinion on other peoples looks and personality.
I think we largely agree Tom.

#32 AdmiralGT

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 10:28 PM

We will see in 2012. Research pole shifts. It seems "global warming" may be a lie to misguide us from the truth. When the sun lets out flares these flares give energies to the earth. These energies interfere with the magnetic field of the earth and can cause a pole shift. Thats where the magnetic poles swap, north becomes south, south becomes north, obviously. If this is true then its predicted the earth will come to a halt in 2012 and then start spinning the other way. Would explain global warming. Alot of this is in the bible symbolically and other religious books. Like 3 day days - the sun doesn't go down for 3 days (a pole shift when the earth stops).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Bull bull bull bull bull. This is so insanely inaccurate it begs to ask what your actually reading which is fueling this insane theory. I did a report on the Earth's magnetic field for about 3 months, and I can categorically tell you that in 2012, the Earth will not stop due to it's magnetic field changing and it will not spin the other way. Magnetic field and the spinning of the Earth are two completely unrelated things. One is to do with magnetic moments, the other, with the conversation of angular momentum. I hate to tell you, but celestial bodies do not simply stop spinning and then spin the other way.
Yes, one day the Earth's magnetic field will change, yes, we are long overdue a change, but it will not stop the Earth.
The fact it takes somewhere in the region of thousands of years to migrate from one direction to the other and occurs every few hundred thousand years. It's not going to take 3 days to go from one to the other. The only effect it will have on the Earth is that we'll see the "Northern Lights" all across the globe (due to the period of time where we have no magnetic field), birds and other animals will get a bit confused and we'll experience "magnetic storms" which can knock out electrical systems (essentially a large EMP pulse).
Yes, I realise this has been said before, but I was away yesterday and only just read this, and quite frankly this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard in my life. More worryingly is the increasing frequency of it.

#33 Blodo

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:47 PM

Where do you get the illusion you need war to take power back. No one can physically stop you if you say "i am me, i am free, if you don't like that fuck off." Everyone does that, no war, oh no govenrment influence. Everyone respects everyone. Its ridiculous that people think the only way for humanity to move forward is by launching nukes at each other, except those fucking kangeroos and their aussie pets. :shiftee:

The war exists, it is for the control of your mind, which is the ONLY way they can control you.

Who controls me? The reptiles from the moon? ROFL

It's the world, we are all controlled by some means or another. We are controlled by our ideologies, more often we are controlled by the things we own. The world is full of materialistic bullshit, but there is no "they" anymore.

The world has no great cause to fight over. Kennedy was killed because someone couldn't stand the thought of having less power in his hands. Tom, look at it in a scientific way: humans are easily corrupt, there is no way anyone can plan all this on this size of scale and not make any mistakes whatsoever - save running it for that long without no one screwing it up.

It occurs to me that all these theories aren't for "the control of my mind" but just for the lesser thought of having more money, it's how humans work. And somehow I don't believe the likes of Putin and Bush are different from the normal Joe who just strives for more cash aka materialistic bullshit.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#34 ComradeJ

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 06:36 PM

Too lazy to keep on quoting, and it gets me confusing. People can't just read random posts in this topic anyway.

First of all, Terrorism. Since when did it start? Sure, there were some... incidents before 9/11, but the world got a real taste of terrorism only after the War on Terrorism started. It has created what it wanted to destroy.
Which I think may just be the American/global problem these days. Problems are being created. Wether it's commies, terrorism, the greenhouse effect, being too fat, I don't think it matters all too much. Just a way to keep people scared and have faith in the state.

The idea behind TV is moving images. If the TV shows a testscreen, and you go stand next to the TV dancing, people will look at you. It's really a matter of who moves more.

Freedom. Bah. You're influenced by modern politics. The entire concept of Freedom did not exist until 200 years ago. It's a false promise, to keep people looking in another direction.
"We're poor"
"You have the potential to become rich. So you're free. Be happy"

Answer this - What has individualism ever done for us?

If it has provided prosperity in some cases, that's good. But that's prosperity. I daresay that freedom and individualism haven't directly benefitted people at all.

Besides, people can't be total individuals. They'll always worship. [b]Always[/i]. Denying that is denying your very self and humanity itself.
Saying the problem is belief is the same thing as saying the problem is humanity. Which is rather logical. The question would be, what's easier? Create an incorruptible thing to worship, or to keep humanity from worshipping? I think the former is way easier to realise, even if it may still be hundreds, thousands of years away from us.

If i said this: Aliens rule the world. What would you say in response to that. And i want responses, don't hold back.

Believing Aliens rule the world doesn't gift me with extra insight, knowledge, wisdom or a good feeling, so I don't. Serves no purpose, so we can just as well keep it as simple as possible.
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#35 Tom

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:46 PM

Bull bull bull bull bull. This is so insanely inaccurate it begs to ask what your actually reading which is fueling this insane theory. I did a report on the Earth's magnetic field for about 3 months, and I can categorically tell you that in 2012, the Earth will not stop due to it's magnetic field changing and it will not spin the other way. Magnetic field and the spinning of the Earth are two completely unrelated things. One is to do with magnetic moments, the other, with the conversation of angular momentum. I hate to tell you, but celestial bodies do not simply stop spinning and then spin the other way.
Yes, one day the Earth's magnetic field will change, yes, we are long overdue a change, but it will not stop the Earth.
The fact it takes somewhere in the region of thousands of years to migrate from one direction to the other and occurs every few hundred thousand years. It's not going to take 3 days to go from one to the other. The only effect it will have on the Earth is that we'll see the "Northern Lights" all across the globe (due to the period of time where we have no magnetic field), birds and other animals will get a bit confused and we'll experience "magnetic storms" which can knock out electrical systems (essentially a large EMP pulse).
Yes, I realise this has been said before, but I was away yesterday and only just read this, and quite frankly this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard in my life. More worryingly is the increasing frequency of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough. See, good to have a scientist around that knows his stuff. :D Either way if a pole shift happened obviously it would be devestating.

Who controls me? The reptiles from the moon? ROFL

NO! They are from the sun, or the "son" as its said in the bible. :) Dies (22nd Dec) and then rises 3 days later (25th Dec). The shortest daylight hours in the year. ;) :grin:

It's the world, we are all controlled by some means or another. We are controlled by our ideologies, more often we are controlled by the things we own. The world is full of materialistic bullshit, but there is no "they" anymore.

The world has no great cause to fight over. Kennedy was killed because someone couldn't stand the thought of having less power in his hands. Tom, look at it in a scientific way: humans are easily corrupt, there is no way anyone can plan all this on this size of scale and not make any mistakes whatsoever - save running it for that long without no one screwing it up.

True but we have no ideas about the realms of the universe because we are disconnected from it. That only means we see now, this dimension, this life. This gives us a great disadvantage. Those in power probably have much knowledge the anicents had, maybe thats why and how they know when the make events "occur" or manipulate us.

It occurs to me that all these theories aren't for "the control of my mind" but just for the lesser thought of having more money, it's how humans work.

Blodo that is a foolish logic. I want more money. More money = centralisation my friend. Centralisation is happening everywhere. 1930s are happening all over again people just can't believe in such a conspiracy because its far too monsterous. They would rather do what we did in 1930s, ignore it and pretend it wasn't happening.

The aim is a fascist world state. Ian Blair aka Orwell knew of this and wrote his book as symbolisation of the "future." Its not the "capitalist" conspiracy. It's not recent. These people haven't just infiltrated and taken over the govermment. Thats impossible. They had to be there from the START. Ancient times. As time went on through the feudalistic period of humanity they decided they had to change systems to "democracy." Why? Because people wanted power, they were learning more. It was a natural occurance.

And somehow I don't believe the likes of Putin and Bush are different from the normal Joe who just strives for more cash aka materialistic bullshit.

Heh, belief is misguiding. I don't "believe" in this conspiracy, but i don't disbelieve either. I would rather see both sides of the story and when events happen judge for myself.

If you need to centralise power when technology is more advanced you need to keep power and then when you need to orcastrate a war, you need control of both sides. Bin Laden and his dog, Osama bin woof woof, were both "created" by the CIA. They were trained to attack the soviets. Amazing how all the videos of osama "admitting" 9/11 aren't even him but an actor. ROFL, unless osama had a face lift... :)

It happens all ways mate. Bush, the elitists, Blair. They are not out for money, they are puppets of an agenda behind the scenes trying to create the illusion of reality and then manipulate that false reality and blind faith in it. The media is just a film, a god damn story. If they showed the real pictures of war then people would be sickened by it rather than shouting "USA! USA! USA!"

The death of spirituality in mankind has caused this, whether we were manipulated into losing induviduality and our personal connections to the "cosmos" or the infinite universe, or we were just simply foolish enough to fall into this trap where we are now being manipulated to control our minds.

If you calm yourself as a "socialist" or a "communist" or a "capitalist" or even a "chav" or "emo" then your minds are controlled. I am me, i am free. I see, think and understand. A capitalist would see, think and blame.

This is happening because WE ALLOWED IT TOO. No other reason. Money is a control, money has nothing to do with it. Money does not exist. Money is a debt and the scam is then to charge interest on that debt. Excellent idea.

First of all, Terrorism. Since when did it start? Sure, there were some... incidents before 9/11, but the world got a real taste of terrorism only after the War on Terrorism started. It has created what it wanted to destroy.

It was what it wanted to destroy decades ago. Even a smart 3 year old could rip apart the official story of 9/11 in 2 minutes flat. It's ridiculously stupid. The inconsistencies and the mistakes were and still are being constantly made. 9/11 was simply an inside job. Terrorism is within our own governments, the terrorists are those who have the power to manipulate us and we are gullible to fall for it.

Just a way to keep people scared and have faith in the state.

Yes. All for centralisation and the hidden agenda. The state controls all, even organised crime is related to the government. Problem-reaction-solution.

The CIA importing crack and other drugs whenever needed. Getting people addicted, their reliance means control.

Answer this - What has individualism ever done for us?

MADE US FREE. MADE US WHO WE ARE. Not controlled by fear of what others think of us. You do realise the very forces that control us today are working to destroy induviduality because it means CONTROL. Induviduality = creativity = books, artists. Are you saying the business man is more important than those people. I know you are not. So stop acting as if robotic human beings are the only way forward. That is the way we are going. A fascist world state, manipulated by fear with a population that are sheep. Thing is these sheep go one step further. WE are also the SHEEPDOG. If anyone thinks of being themselves, induvidual and it doesn't fit in with society we give them a look or take the piss. That fear controls us, that destroys induviduality. Without induviduality people are blind and foolish.

We came to this earth to experience OURSELVES in a 3rd dimension. Not to be mindless slaves for fascist or communist superstates. Key word; SELF, OUR SELVES; SELF. We are infinite creatures, we live for infinity, we experience ourselves for infinity in infinite dimensions of experience. We are everything and everything is us.

I am me, I am free. Nothing else matters.

My advice: stop seeing "induviduality" as selfishness or greed. It is not.

Money does not exist really. Its an illusion of control. Why not just remove it and be ourselves. We could progress much further as humanity when we respect everyones rights to be themselves. That is all that matters in this life. Discovering yourself in a 3rd dimensional reality.

Create an incorruptible thing to worship, or to keep humanity from worshipping? I think the former is way easier to realise, even if it may still be hundreds, thousands of years away from us.

To stop worrying about what other people THINK and BE YOURSELF. Jesus, i'm sorry CJ, usually i wouldn't care but these points are worthless. Your view is that people need to be controlled and their views need to be controlled. Thats the very mind prisons we live in.

"This is the official story of 9/11"
One guy: "9/11 was a conspiracy"
"Thats just your opinion"
"Whats yours?"
"The official story"
"Thats not your opinion thats just the official story."

See how it works. "My opinion is iraq had weapons of mass destruction" No that is not YOUR opinion. You didn't see it, you don't know. That is the mind control i'm on about. People need to think themselves.

Socrates philosophy that has worked for me very well: Always question belief. Question it until you yourself find it logical. If it goes with your truth then accept it. If it doesn't then ask why you believed it in the first place."

Believing Aliens rule the world doesn't gift me with extra insight, knowledge, wisdom or a good feeling, so I don't. Serves no purpose, so we can just as well keep it as simple as possible.

False. Alright it may not be revelent, but if it was TRUE, then it gives you this insight: The corrupt are brainwashed and controlled by aliens or are aliens.
These aliens may have more knowledge that us and more advanced technology
WE know they will know ancient wisdom and understanding of the universe. To keep that from us means they have an advantage over us and we can be easily manipulated.

Of course theres no direct evidence for aliens other than UFOs and stories of "shapeshifters" aka George HW Bush, of which you can find in many books. Hard to believe. I haven't seen it myself. It's easy to make money on these things. I'm not direct fool. I will not run around saying "this conspiracy is true, aliens exist." I've just done research into the ancients and there is much that would fit into much of mankind.

#36 ComradeJ

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 03:52 PM

Could be me, but your ideas are highly contradictive.

One thing you need to realise is that you need other people. If you were alone on this world, you'd be feeding yourself with what lay on the ground, and that would be the very essence of your life. Centralisation gets people to do diverse jobs, specialising people, which causes technological advancements. You can come up with anarchist arguments here that that shouldn't be humanity's reason for being, but the comp you're typing on is, in fact, as result of centralisation.

MADE US FREE


ROFL, you're even buying the argument of freedom! Freedom is either nonexistant or not relevant. What's so free about this world? What can you decide? There's always some form of elite that decides for you. What if you wanted to walk around nakes? You can't. The elite decides that's indecent, so you're not allowed. What if you wanted to constantly sing songs? People would hate you, you'd never get a job. Freedom does not exist. The fact that you're buying it means it's well-thought, I'll admit that.

Humanity's problem is that the masses are stupid, and the individual is corrupt.
People worship. You worship. Period. The worshipped is human. Period. Humanity is flawed, so your point of worship is flawed. Period.
A man (or woman) can not be itself. It's not in our nature.

Society is a kindergarten where the kids choose their teachers from amongst them

That is my view, and it's proven itself right time and time again.

Ancient wisdom. Pfft. It's a matter of interests. These days, science is important, so the geniuses are scientists. Ancient days, building stuff was important, so the geniuses were architects. They didn't know more, they were just equally smart to us, with other interests.

Furthermore, so what about conspiracies? If you would know the truth, would you become instantly rich? Could you prevent loved ones from dying? All you gain is the sense of freedom, which is a concept they have made up in the first place to keep you occupied and not caring about your own poor status

What's most important to you? Wealth? Freedom?

PS - Orwell's name was Eric Blair =p

Edited by ComradeJ, 01 December 2005 - 03:55 PM.

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#37 Tom

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 06:34 PM

Could be me, but your ideas are highly contradictive.

It's not contradictive, its simply your misunderstanding. I guess i could say i have a different view of life. Everyone does, thats just me. There is no WRONG or RIGHT.

One thing you need to realise is that you need other people. If you were alone on this world, you'd be feeding yourself with what lay on the ground, and that would be the very essence of your life.

Yes, but everyone is an induvidual. They are themselves. I don't mean induvidualism as in no one cares about others, thats impossible and entirely stupid. I mean induviduality as realising you are YOURSELF. You are not a group. Your not "a communist" or "a capitalist." You are yourself. When you realise that you free yourself from the ridiculous mind prisons the "isms" give you.

Centralisation gets people to do diverse jobs, specialising people, which causes technological advancements.

Your telling me you need mass political centralisation to do that? Since when? What has ever stopped a group of people getting together and making a robot or new technology. You don't need to rule people to do that. You don't need to indoctrinate people in "education" as they call it, or control every aspect of peoples lives.

We are being "held back." There is much technology we do not realise that exists and this is why humanity has such a close-minded view of the world. You do realise we operate in frequency ranges don't you? Our ears and eyes can only see or respond to certain frequencies. There are things that exist in higher frequencies that we cannot see. This is where the DIMENSIONs come from. This is where possible aliens exist. Many scientists are now beginning to agree and research into the "theory."

You can come up with anarchist arguments here that that shouldn't be humanity's reason for being, but the comp you're typing on is, in fact, as result of centralisation.

THe middle ages proves the ridiculous point of centralisation. Mass centralisation of power means less power to the few. Democracy is an illusion. The minority rule, we believe there are "political parties" or "political scales." DIVIDE and RULE. We are being played and it is to centralise more power. As you centralise more power your agenda starts to move faster as you have more power to centralise even more.

Humanity does not need a few people ruling us to make "technological advancements," if you believe we do thats your choice. It really isn't any of my business, but in reality power is an illusion. It simply does not exist as everyone is themselves and we all make up part of a higher collective being called the universe or even to the higher levels called "God."

ROFL, you're even buying the argument of freedom! Freedom is either nonexistant or not relevant. What's so free about this world? What can you decide? There's always some form of elite that decides for you.

You have fallen into the "trap." They only have the power WE GIVE THEM. Freedom is everywhere. We live in a paradise, we just make it so its not a paradise and blame external entities for our stupidity and faults. We make our reality. Positive view = positive world, negative view - negative world. Watch the first matrix film again. When Morphous holds up a battery think about what hes saying. Everything exists because of energy, the higher dimensions exist because of their higher vibatory rate of energy. Inbetween dimensions you would have "planes." If beings were to live in between these dimensions they would have no direct energy source and would need to feed from an alternative source. Human fear is a powerful energy, many people can feel it from others. You know when someone is scared, you feel it. Fear rules the world and it empowers them. Even if thats symbolically or literally (as i just said).

What if you wanted to walk around nakes? You can't. The elite decides that's indecent, so you're not allowed. What if you wanted to constantly sing songs? People would hate you, you'd never get a job. Freedom does not exist. The fact that you're buying it means it's well-thought, I'll admit that.

I repeat: the only power they have is the power we give them. We could free ourselves without even fighting, but thats really not possible entirely. Its 1, slightly too late because their agenda is entering its final stages, which is the manipulation of the world to give a solution to every problem on earth. A world state. Every problem on earth however is caused by them and our ignorance. 2, people minds are too enslaved in the "matrix" there won't be a mass enlightenment on the level most people imagine.

America, no matter what people says, is heading for civil war. Europe is trying to centralise, i'm sure when they go for it we will also have shit break out. They are trying to make a major problem, a third world war, just as their prophecy says. "the antichrist" comes out of Israel. No one believed it before WWII simply because israel didn't exist. Well WWII sorted that. The "antichrist" is already here, its a result of Israel and the cold war etc. World War III will be the problem, those who survive will be "oh my god save us" - the reaction, after that they will try to centralise power for a world state (the solution).

Time will tell but by 2012 i personally think the world will be a very different place indeed, we will start taking power back, we will refuse to walk along. Of course many will walk like robots but there will always be others who will fight against it. We'll see. If we are "wrong" it doesn't matter, theres still an issue but we have still learn much from this time and life.

Humanity's problem is that the masses are stupid,

4 letters: F E A R. People don't do things because they FEAR what others think. They fear what the government might do. Forget the fear and focus on the love. Love of humanity. To hate humanity you are hating yourself. No matter how "stupid" you think people are, it is not you to judge. Only the induvidual may judge themself in that deep down fashion. Instead of looking upon the masses as "stupid" look upon them as "enslaved," even if you disagree your view of life will totally change almost instantly. Why? Because you see the truth, the manipulation and how it works. I've said much of this before. I even said this on CNCNZ, i was attacked. I couldn't care, thats what you get for trying to show an alternative view to "reality." Obviously the truth is so hidden nowadays no one knows what is real and what is not.

and the individual is corrupt.

Corrupted by whom exactly? Themselves? Or ignorance?

People worship. You worship. Period. The worshipped is human. Period. Humanity is flawed, so your point of worship is flawed. Period.
A man (or woman) can not be itself. It's not in our nature.

We make our reality. This world is our illusion. WE MADE IT. We modelled it with our minds and lived it as an experience of SELF. When we die, we shall return to ourselves and see the truth. For now just try remember, life is infinite. Death doesn't exist, all that exists is experience. Infinite wisdom, infinite love. You could just say this is god experiencing himSELF.

Society is a kindergarten where the kids choose their teachers from amongst them

That is my view, and it's proven itself right time and time again.

A wise man is always a child to this world, his teacher is experience. That counters that "flaw." We come here to experience, your statement is right, we do choose our "teachers" but sometimes we are brainwashed into choosing the incorrect teachers.

Ancient wisdom. Pfft. It's a matter of interests. These days, science is important, so the geniuses are scientists.

Closeminded science? Looks upon what it can see just by its frequency. There is much other scientists who are not in the spotlight because their work does not show what the elite want us to believe our reality is. They want us to believe its controlled entirely by physics, it is but there is much more than the bullshit spin much scientists come out with, no offense to some of them. Medical science is so far behind.

Ancient days, building stuff was important, so the geniuses were architects. They didn't know more, they were just equally smart to us, with other interests.

Thats questionable. I suggest if you are interested you research much of their teachings and philosophy. They KNEW far more than us about our physical world of the 3rd dimension. They still have that knowledge today. The knowledge is held within the elite and this is why they are going to try centralise much power before 2012, the "prophecy," years of enlightenment due to other energies of the universe interfering with ours solar system.

Furthermore, so what about conspiracies? If you would know the truth, would you become instantly rich? Could you prevent loved ones from dying?

Why would you want too? I don't understand the relevance of this. It totally misses the point.

All you gain is the sense of freedom, which is a concept they have made up in the first place to keep you occupied and not caring about your own poor status

What's most important to you? Wealth? Freedom?

Freedom. Of course the concept of freedom is made up by humanity. This world is made up by us. Everything we see is an illusion. There is much we cannot see. It's like when you see a cat jumping at something and hissing and you say "what are you doing, stupid cat." Cats can see another frequency range to us so they can see things we cannot pick up with our eyes. A hypnotists proved that these frequency ranges existed within our mind. He got a man and his daughter up onto the stage. Hypnotised the man and said when you awake you will not be able to see your daughter. He brought him back stood his daughter infront of himself (the hypnotist) and said can you see my hand? (Which was behind the daughter). The man said yes. He then got our a box from his pocket and opened it behind the daughter (hidden from the stage and the crowd) and said: can you see what is in the box. He said "a watch," the hypnotist then said: "can you tell me the enscription on the watch" and the man could. He then put him back to "sleep" and brought him back so he could see his daughter.

The illusion is what we make of it. To see society as an ever standing structure is foolish really CJ, why? Because it is not. You act like there is no alternative and that you yourself have no POWER. You do, you give your power away to those in power. We don't have to live like that. As i said. Time will tell. The signs are there, the structures are there its only when we start seeing the signs becoming events that we will know the truth of these "theories."

PS - Orwell's name was Eric Blair =p

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was close enough :grin: The last name was the only relevent name anyway "Blair."

#38 Comrade Kal

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 09:15 PM

Yeah, Ian Blair is the "policemen are the supreme beings above all other humans" Metropolitan Police Chief.
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#39 Blodo

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 12:45 AM

There is no WRONG or RIGHT.

There always is wrong and right. Would you would tell me Hitler's crazy republic killing off 24 million people is neither wrong nor right I would have to imply that this conspiracy is starting to consume you already.

Yes, but everyone is an induvidual. They are themselves. I don't mean induvidualism as in no one cares about others, thats impossible and entirely stupid. I mean induviduality as realising you are YOURSELF. You are not a group. Your not "a communist" or "a capitalist." You are yourself. When you realise that you free yourself from the ridiculous mind prisons the "isms" give you.

You are never an individual. Nobody is special, but we are told we are special by the hypocritical capitalists who tell us: yes you will be special if you buy our clothes, wear our namebrand, accept our view of the world. Be a rebel. Wear khakis. Spread bullshit. Everyone is in it more or less.

The point is: what are groups? Groups are gatherings of people who most probably all share the same ideology. One man can't change anything but a group can so why do people have to absorb this bullshit about being individuals when in reality they aren't? One man can't change as much as a whole group of people. By trying to prove otherwise you are becoming that franchise rebel.

Your telling me you need mass political centralisation to do that? Since when? What has ever stopped a group of people getting together and making a robot or new technology. You don't need to rule people to do that. You don't need to indoctrinate people in "education" as they call it, or control every aspect of peoples lives.

You need centralisation to give people a reason. Why was peniciline invented? Was it invented because someone was bored into oblivion and felt like discovering a bunch of nothing? No, it was discovered because people needed a real cure in the place of blood draining.

We are being "held back." There is much technology we do not realise that exists and this is why humanity has such a close-minded view of the world. You do realise we operate in frequency ranges don't you? Our ears and eyes can only see or respond to certain frequencies. There are things that exist in higher frequencies that we cannot see. This is where the DIMENSIONs come from. This is where possible aliens exist. Many scientists are now beginning to agree and research into the "theory."

Is there a way to prove that? No, let me rephrase it: Why does it concern you? Will the knowledge that there are aliens in higher frequencies gonna change your life in a way other than the fact that you will think you are enlightened? I'd be more concerned on crime and poverty and how to prevent those, maybe then i'd have a viable idea.

You can't run your life on theories Tom. I'm not saying this is all bullshit you are saying, it's just this is far beyond the theory of a political conspiracy that actually could be proven. Arguements must have facts backing them up, real facts not David Icke and his reptilian shapeshifters theories.

4 letters: F E A R.

Ask any American. Do they fear or do they believe in their president? Ask someone in Venezuela. Are they afraid of Hugo Chavez or do they believe in him? Do people believe in democracy or are they just plain afraid of it?

You see Tom, fear breeds resistance. But if people believe, there will be no resistance at all. That is the major difference.

Closeminded science? Looks upon what it can see just by its frequency. There is much other scientists who are not in the spotlight because their work does not show what the elite want us to believe our reality is. They want us to believe its controlled entirely by physics, it is but there is much more than the bullshit spin much scientists come out with, no offense to some of them. Medical science is so far behind.

Amazingly enough if every scientist was to think like you we would all pray to some ancients for cures instead of actually inventing something. I blame it on the capitalists, holding back our advance for the concept of profit and selling more of a worthless drug, when a simpler solution is invented and proven.

Thats questionable. I suggest if you are interested you research much of their teachings and philosophy. They KNEW far more than us about our physical world of the 3rd dimension. They still have that knowledge today. The knowledge is held within the elite and this is why they are going to try centralise much power before 2012, the "prophecy," years of enlightenment due to other energies of the universe interfering with ours solar system.

They were assuming things. What does that give us? Nothing.

The illusion is what we make of it. To see society as an ever standing structure is foolish really CJ, why? Because it is not. You act like there is no alternative and that you yourself have no POWER. You do, you give your power away to those in power. We don't have to live like that. As i said. Time will tell. The signs are there, the structures are there its only when we start seeing the signs becoming events that we will know the truth of these "theories."

And what makes you think people don't want to live like this?

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#40 MSpencer

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 10:01 AM

Let me sum this all up. Everyone screams mega-conspiracy, but I see a plain old administration. Then everyone screams super-mega-worldwide-conspiracy, and I still see a plain old administration.
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