Jump to content


Photo

Freedom


  • Please log in to reply
74 replies to this topic

#41 ComradeJ

ComradeJ

    Comrade Jamgee

  • Project Team
  • 2,067 posts
  • Location:Close to Daeda!
  • Projects:Red Alert: ReGeneration

Posted 02 December 2005 - 10:29 AM

Knowing (or assuming) the elite are reptillians gives us what? Happiness? Health? Prosperity?
If it isn't either of those, you need proof. You can believe in a God without proof, because it grants happiness. Doesn't matter wether a God is real or not, since the very idea benefits your life. Reptillians, however, do not, and need proof. Like science, which doesn't especially help you with happiness/health/prosperity (at least usually not directly).

Although I mostly agree with what Blodo said (the conspiracies! Pfft!), I feel I must adress the WRONG and RIGHT. It's all in the eye of the beholder. If Hitler's ideas were wrong in the truest sense of the word, why would he have spread, or even had them?
Nietzsche once said that right is just what people think benefits the group, society, more. The entire defenition of wrong is that it doesn't stroke with your ideas of how to improve the group. But in the eyes of another group, it may just be the right idea.
I'm not defending the nazi ideals in any way. I'm just as much against Hitler's ideas as you are, but I think the concepts of right and wrong are flawed.
Right = what you think.
Wrong = what people disagreeing with you think.

Tom, you want decentralisation, go look at animals and their happy state of life. Or shitty African/Asian villages where people still live like 4000 years ago and life expectance is roughly 30 years.
You cannot compare pissing to thinking
- SoulReaver

#42 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 02 December 2005 - 03:21 PM

Yeah, Ian Blair is the "policemen are the supreme beings above all other humans" Metropolitan Police Chief.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or is it Mr Ian "shoot to kill policy" Blair. We shot a man in the head 7 times and then tried to cover it up and say he was a terrorist. Really however we just wanted some fun.

There always is wrong and right. Would you would tell me Hitler's crazy republic killing off 24 million people is neither wrong nor right I would have to imply that this conspiracy is starting to consume you already.

Heh. :sleep:

No i'm saying right and wrong is a human concept, its made by our minds/intelligence. Other animals do not see right and wrong, they see survival. Basically i see things differently. Killing someone is killing yourself. How? Because we are infinite beings our "influence" goes on beyond other dimensions of life. One point there is going to be just consciousness, and everything manifests from that consciousness. So we are all one.

If you saw a man smacking himself over the head with a baseball bat you'd go call the guys in jackets to take him away. Well humanity does this to itself every day. The right and wrong is merely done by spiritual death.

Oh and blodo, take no offense to this but i'm gunna be blunt: Your telling me your own views do not consume you too? IF you say no then your lying, you communist pig! :dry:

You are never an individual. Nobody is special, but we are told we are special by the hypocritical capitalists who tell us: yes you will be special if you buy our clothes, wear our namebrand, accept our view of the world. Be a rebel. Wear khakis. Spread bullshit. Everyone is in it more or less.

Everyone is the same then? NO. We have minds of OUR OWN. That is induviduality, living your life as you wish to live it. Why should i be forced by other peoples views of "reality"? Those who set the norms in society are the most powerful people on earth, they just fear being powerful because they are foolish. WE are powerful, we are free with our own power. Our power goes beyond this world we are just disconnected from that sense of truth and accept this reality as the be all and end all. In one sense your right, if there is a collective consciousness beyond this earth we are all one consciousness experiencing itself, we are god, but at this level we are induviduals. We are not mindless robots who follow each other. That is the sheep termology and to believe otherwise is to submit into the abyss of failing intellect and accept a false reality.

Everyone has their own minds, everyone is themSELF. Your seeing induvidualism as a "capitalist" mindset. No induvidualism is the ability to lead your own life. Then on the next scale you start seeing the more true reality of humanity and we come together as one to experience this world. Induviduality doesn't mean "all for yourself" or greedy blodo, it means the freedom to express yourself without being trampled upon.

Shakespeare didn't write his stories by being a "state," he wrote it by being himself. When you state seeing the "state" you start ignoring the "person" the induvidual. Thus no government will ever succeed, thus the solution is for a mass enlightenment and then the removal of a government system and people will be free to experience this 3rd dimensional image of self.

The point is: what are groups? Groups are gatherings of people who most probably all share the same ideology. One man can't change anything but a group can so why do people have to absorb this bullshit about being individuals when in reality they aren't? One man can't change as much as a whole group of people. By trying to prove otherwise you are becoming that franchise rebel.

But the people within the group are still induviduals. When you start seeing groups of people and nicknaming them "chavs" you've forgotten about the persons within the group and society begins to fall flat on its face because power is removed to hand to others.

I know what your saying blodo. I use to 100% agree but recently i've learn so much you see things differently and i tell you now there is not "right" and "wrong" in the sense of opinion its the sense of self.

You need centralisation to give people a reason. Why was peniciline invented?

Bullshit, bullshit. Have humans become really that sad that we think we NEED others to tell us what to do to get somewhere. You are a "socialist" blodo. You care about the working class. Why is it the working class is so downtrodden? Is it the capitalist machine or is it them? It is them. They choose to let it happen we all choose to let it happen. We have the power. Centralisation removes the power entirely from these people, or so the illusion is.

Penicillin wasn't "invented," it an organic matter, but i get your point :p It was because of discovery. Why do we need a government to grow that for us? If we know how to grow it, then we grow it. Don;t need "money" and bullshit. Its all the illusion of control and power.

Was it invented because someone was bored into oblivion and felt like discovering a bunch of nothing? No, it was discovered because people needed a real cure in the place of blood draining.

Yes? Point being? We needed a government to do that? I know what your saying. I use to 100% agree mate, but its not the truth. There is no need, we are here ourselves. There is much more to be found, we cannot find it if people are pressing their opinions on others to try centralise power. Its none of my business what people think, that is them, i am me. How do their opinions affect me? It is only when we have a form of control that forces bullshit down your throat for breakfast, lunch and dinner each day. That is when it effects you.

Is there a way to prove that?

Heh, that depends on if you want to prove it yourself. People are too concerned about seeing things with eyes rather than feeling them with their minds. Everyone that has come back from a near death experience says the same, everyone. The same images, the same details the same progress, just in their own creative way. People who never believed in spirituality before, have a near death experience and change forever and have reversed views. Mind altering drugs do much for this. People have taken large doses of LSD and seen alternative view to the world. Many come back saying it was just a trip, it was bullshit. But then they do it again and again and again and get the same results.

Facts are not always facts blodo mate, many are made up to misguide or control people. People say its a fact that they went to Iraq to free iraqs whilst others say the opposite. Facts are rarely facts. There is an infinite universe out there. That means infinite possibilies. Everything exists in one for or another. Again thats not my business if you believe it, its yours. You are yourself, you make up your own mind, why would i care if you disagree? I state what i think you state what you think and there we have it :p

No, let me rephrase it: Why does it concern you? Will the knowledge that there are aliens in higher frequencies gonna change your life in a way other than the fact that you will think you are enlightened? I'd be more concerned on crime and poverty and how to prevent those, maybe then i'd have a viable idea.

Your right. It doesn't. I say it because people don't come across it otherwise. It changes nothing really does it, but i find it interesting because it means there is other life out there. We can see only one 1% of the known spectrum with our eyes. Thats just our frequency range. These other ranges exist, to deny that is silly really. Don't you think theres event a tiny 99% possibility that there are things we cannot see elsewhere if we can only see 1% of all known matter?

You can't run your life on theories Tom. I'm not saying this is all bullshit you are saying, it's just this is far beyond the theory of a political conspiracy that actually could be proven.

What if it isn't a "political conspiracy" what if its an ancient one thats existed for thousands of years by an advanced race of babylon or the ancients? Thats the problem with humanity. Its all "what if" rather than "why?"

Why does everything have to suffer the fate of the reason? There always seems to need to be a reason before anything seems to be "valid" or "possible" however i've learn thats bullshit. People report hundreds of UFO sightings each day and everyone says "nah its ridiculous, not possible, there is only a infinite universe out there, not possible at all. We can only see 1% of all matter, not possible at all." Humanity is disconnected from itself. I am discovering it through myself, realising i can alter my own version of reality with my mind. I'm showing you now. Its simple. The world doesn't have to be like this but it is because theres too much "what if." Thats the REASON, Humanity knows NOTHING. It has suffered the fate of its own ignorance in the most destructive way possible, we can progress from here but people need to let go of what they see and start questioning themselves and "why?" Otherwise the reason will always be from another point of view and not your own.

Blodo, my life isn't dominated by this. Do you think i stand on street corners preaching that aliens are amongst us and we must grab knives and kill each other until we find them. I don't no matter what you or your moths believe :p I mean for christ sake i'm at college, i'm going through the same education system i still have a few of teaching. All that changes that possibility for my own future is what happens between now and then. If nothing happens i haven't lost anything because i had nothing to gain anyway. All i've gained is more understanding for the world. You may not agree but i certainly have learnt much about myself from these views and looking at life in a different way is very benefitical. I could say i no longer believe in coincidence, there is only cause and effect.

#43 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 02 December 2005 - 03:22 PM

Arguements must have facts backing them up, real facts not David Icke and his reptilian shapeshifters theories.

Do you think he made this up? No people have come forward and given him this information. He has GONE out himself and researched it. Knowledge does not come to you, you must find knowledge. The experience david icke has had made him a very strong willed person and i respect him for having the guts to stand up and stay his "absurd" views. How many other people would do that?

Everything icke has found is from sources of information, research, linking and using intelligence. The "facts" are there, they will not come to you.

Ask any American. Do they fear or do they believe in their president? Ask someone in Venezuela. Are they afraid of Hugo Chavez or do they believe in him? Do people believe in democracy or are they just plain afraid of it?

Wrong view. They fear what others think. When they do an action they don't think "what will tony or georgy boy think?" They think "what will my mother thing, my mates in the pub, my brother etc..." Fear of what people think control people. As i said, when you set norms in society you are very powerful indeed because people hardly ever go against those norms. Do you think people would go to bring down a president? No because they fear the consequences. That is where the problem lies. FEAR.

You see Tom, fear breeds resistance. But if people believe, there will be no resistance at all. That is the major difference.

No there is not. Fear can bring many things. You back someone into a corner far enough they may lash out or they may submit. Most people submit because they only see this reality. Peoples worst fear in this life is death. Thats why it was essential to disconnect them from their higher self. When people refind their higher self you start seeing action and they start overcoming their fear and starting doing. Do you think Cindy Sheehan started protesting because she feared the consequences, no. Well maybe, maybe she feared the consequences of her government however i also think she felt it was her time to act, she needed to act to try to ensure the consequences would be benefitial to all rather than just a minority.

Amazingly enough if every scientist was to think like you we would all pray to some ancients for cures instead of actually inventing something.

Bullshit, they would stop believing what others have told them and research themself. I don't know where your making this up from, it just seems an excuse to me to ignore an alternative view and only focus on society as it is.

I blame it on the capitalists, holding back our advance for the concept of profit and selling more of a worthless drug, when a simpler solution is invented and proven.

I do agree but its not "capitalists" its just a form of holding back knowledge. Do you think communists would have been any different? No they are just forms of control under the same type of government. They are not "opposites" they are "opposames." Opposites within the same system and the achieve pretty much the same intentions.

They were assuming things. What does that give us? Nothing.

It gives us knowledge of the universe if you need something. I don't see why you think you have to gain from everything. If means if there is going to be a change then between now and whenever the change will end, it will happen, possibly. If not then we'll have to see if we accept "fate" and move into a global fascist state.

And what makes you think people don't want to live like this?

Because they were born and brainwashed into the system. They know no alternative or never experience any alternative, so where is your judgement coming from. People don't know what they want until they start finding themselves and getting the courage to choose. We have free will for a reason, why not use it.

Let me sum this all up. Everyone screams mega-conspiracy, but I see a plain old administration. Then everyone screams super-mega-worldwide-conspiracy, and I still see a plain old administration.

Thats exactly what is meant to be seen. The "film" as a i call it. They supply the public with events but no reasons behind them other than manipulated ones. "Today we declared war with germany." What are we going to get out of this? No one asks that. They just show images on tv and everyone follows it like its a fricking film. History runs so smooth and there is always too many good consequences for the ruling elite for it to be a coincidence.

Knowing (or assuming) the elite are reptillians gives us what? Happiness? Health? Prosperity?

Your right. There is nothing to gain, just understanding why it is is happen. IF these "reptillians" did exist then it gives me this: humans are not entirely corrupt, we have been corrupted by the "snake" from the "garden of edan."

You can believe in a God without proof, because it grants happiness. Doesn't matter wether a God is real or not, since the very idea benefits your life. Reptillians, however, do not, and need proof. Like science, which doesn't especially help you with happiness/health/prosperity (at least usually not directly).

People can believe whatever they like. Its when they start forcing their beliefs upon others, even in a government that things go down the shitter.

Although I mostly agree with what Blodo said (the conspiracies! Pfft!), I feel I must adress the WRONG and RIGHT. It's all in the eye of the beholder. If Hitler's ideas were wrong in the truest sense of the word, why would he have spread, or even had them?

True. But its not just a coincidence hitler got to power. Concidence doesn't exist, whatever way you look at it.

Tom, you want decentralisation, go look at animals and their happy state of life. Or shitty African/Asian villages where people still live like 4000 years ago and life expectance is roughly 30 years.

I don't WANT decentralisation, i WANT people to disconnect from the false reality and see themselves for what they really are, however my *WANTS* are no one elses business and neither are their WANTs any of my business.

Of for africa. I suppose they CHOSE to live like that? Well they accepted it and choice to accept it. Its foolish. There is technology according to a CIA scientist, whom icke interviewed, that can develop vast areas of dry land into lush areas where food can be grown. Now if that technology really does exist then why don't they use it. I'll tell you why: They are not here to represent humanity they are here to represent themselves.

I wish people would stop taking it upon to critise the views and actually read and think about them. I am not asking you to believe or even agree. I don't care if you do or don't. I just saying we can all benefit more if you try to look upon the world through other peoples eyes rather than simply your own.

Africa is in its position because we allowed it to be. WE chose and continue to let it be as it is. No amount of money can save africa, only us. Humanity only progresses as far as its lowest point, that means we are no farther than africas development really because we are dominated by greed and ridiculous opinions that we have no power. We are the power. Power is us, nothing we built, society or any structure of government can exist without our consent. When people in the US slowly begin to disagree with the american government then shit will break loose. You can see the ground work of it today, tommorrow however the beginning of the most radical period of mankind could be taking form. We shall see. As i said only time will tell. :sleep:

#44 ComradeJ

ComradeJ

    Comrade Jamgee

  • Project Team
  • 2,067 posts
  • Location:Close to Daeda!
  • Projects:Red Alert: ReGeneration

Posted 02 December 2005 - 06:43 PM

Again, your ideas seem contradictive. 'We' have the real power, but 'we' don't exist, only 'I's?

The more I think about it, the more the idea of worship seems to be humanity's driving factor. Let's make that Worship, with a W instead of a w.
You say a man's greatest fear is to die - I say it is the dying of the point of worship. A parent will die for his/her children, many people have died for their nation or ideology. Worship, Worship, Worship. You're ready to look stupid just to defend Icke's ideas. Worship.

Hereby, I would like to change the idea that masses are stupid and that the individual is corrupt, to the idea that the masses are stupid and corrupt, and the individual is stupid and corrupt.
You say you're free, but you are not. The elite decides what you should wear, what you should look like, what morals and values you should have. You can't wear 19th century clothing, because it isn't made, and if it were, the world would laugh at you. You can't be fat, because you'd be less likely to get a job and friends. You can't think killing off weak people is good for the world, because the world would call you a fascist idiot.
What you're claiming, is that physical restrictions are more important than psychological ones. I highly disagree.

I dispose of any of the reptillians/Illuminati theories, simply because they don't hold any value, but are the Atheist Hypocrisy (call it the Intellectualist Hypocrisy, if you wish); The pure and utter denial that the person is guilty through worship. Which everyone, of course, is, since everyone worships.

You agree with me that the state in Africa is worse than here. Africa is less centralised. I'm sorry, but the link between centralisation and wealth is a lot clearer to me than the link between reptiles and the New World Order.

Centralisation is prosperity, as far as I can see it. And in my view, prosperity, happiness and health are really the key values in life, the others (freedom and the likes) are merely fake ideals to keep people occupied. Occupied with reptillian creatures that take over the world, instead of trying to see what humanity is and what it does. You've said this partially too, which is why I think your views don't mix all too well.

Oh yeah, and I don't really see current day as such an important period. Doubtfully that it provides any more psychological value than 100, 500 or 2000 years ago. Accepting that your time is irrelevant would mean that your objects of worship, if they are present in the modern day (and David Icke is), are worthless, which is of course, your fear. Worship, Worship, Worship.
You cannot compare pissing to thinking
- SoulReaver

#45 Blodo

Blodo

    The one who disagrees

  • Project Team
  • 3,002 posts
  • Location:Eastern Europe
  • Projects:siteMeister, Mental Omega
  •  The wise guy

Posted 02 December 2005 - 07:44 PM

Oh and blodo, take no offense to this but i'm gunna be blunt: Your telling me your own views do not consume you too? IF you say no then your lying, you communist pig!  :sleep:

Hey - i'm not the one fearing a moth conspiracy :dry:

Everyone has their own minds, everyone is themSELF. Your seeing induvidualism as a "capitalist" mindset. No induvidualism is the ability to lead your own life. Then on the next scale you start seeing the more true reality of humanity and we come together as one to experience this world. Induviduality doesn't mean "all for yourself" or greedy blodo, it means the freedom to express yourself without being trampled upon.

The state of which won't happen. Ever. Even in an anarchy. People are naturally attracted to themselves and into forming larger groups. We have always worked and lived in a group because a group is stronger than an individual. It's how nature equipped us and how everyone is keeping it that way. Denying that is basically denying your nature thingys..

BTW rereading your quote above i find it highly contradictive, with you first preaching the individuality and then the collective. You have to choose one cause they both exclude themselves.

Shakespeare didn't write his stories by being a "state," he wrote it by being himself. When you state seeing the "state" you start ignoring the "person" the induvidual. Thus no government will ever succeed, thus the solution is for a mass enlightenment and then the removal of a government system and people will be free to experience this 3rd dimensional image of self.

That is not a viable solution. Nature equipped us to live and survive in groups, your anarchy theory may happen someday but people will still form groups and eventually command structures. Individuality will not happen. Even great leaders cannot exist without their men of will to command.

But the people within the group are still induviduals. When you start seeing groups of people and nicknaming them "chavs" you've forgotten about the persons within the group and society begins to fall flat on its face because power is removed to hand to others.

I know what your saying blodo. I use to 100% agree but recently i've learn so much you see things differently and i tell you now there is not "right" and "wrong" in the sense of opinion its the sense of self.

There are just some things that are naturally wrong, such as man-slaughter. Will you deny that and say it's just an opinion?

Bullshit, bullshit. Have humans become really that sad that we think we NEED others to tell us what to do to get somewhere. You are a "socialist" blodo. You care about the working class. Why is it the working class is so downtrodden? Is it the capitalist machine or is it them? It is them. They choose to let it happen we all choose to let it happen. We have the power. Centralisation removes the power entirely from these people, or so the illusion is.

Penicillin wasn't "invented," it an organic matter, but i get your point :p It was because of discovery. Why do we need a government to grow that for us? If we know how to grow it, then we grow it. Don;t need "money" and bullshit. Its all the illusion of control and power.

We need a leader to give us inspiration. Without inspiration and leadership nothing would ever get done, now if leaders were truly redundant as you say, wouldn't nature eliminate them by making us naturally rebelious and individualistic?

Heh, that depends on if you want to prove it yourself. People are too concerned about seeing things with eyes rather than feeling them with their minds. Everyone that has come back from a near death experience says the same, everyone. The same images, the same details the same progress, just in their own creative way. People who never believed in spirituality before, have a near death experience and change forever and have reversed views. Mind altering drugs do much for this. People have taken large doses of LSD and seen alternative view to the world. Many come back saying it was just a trip, it was bullshit. But then they do it again and again and again and get the same results.

LSD is a hallucinogenic drug. Anyone having large amounts of it would see pigs and cows flying in the air, not to mention the "3rd dimension experience" or whatever youre calling it.

And regarding the near-death experience: with a lack of oxygen the brain starts kind of malfunctioning, that's when that light thing hallucination is produced. If people recover they'll remember that, and usually call this bullshit a "sign from god" or something similar.

Facts are not always facts blodo mate, many are made up to misguide or control people. People say its a fact that they went to Iraq to free iraqs whilst others say the opposite. Facts are rarely facts.

Hence why you have a mind of your own to put your own facts together, but in your case it's kind of getting too far.

Your right. It doesn't. I say it because people don't come across it otherwise. It changes nothing really does it, but i find it interesting because it means there is other life out there. We can see only one 1% of the known spectrum with our eyes. Thats just our frequency range. These other ranges exist, to deny that is silly really. Don't you think theres event a tiny 99% possibility that there are things we cannot see elsewhere if we can only see 1% of all known matter?

No one is denying it. It's just nobody cares. There are more important things to care about.

What if it isn't a "political conspiracy" what if its an ancient one thats existed for thousands of years by an advanced race of babylon or the ancients? Thats the problem with humanity. Its all "what if" rather than "why?"

Why does everything have to suffer the fate of the reason? There always seems to need to be a reason before anything seems to be "valid" or "possible" however i've learn thats bullshit. People report hundreds of UFO sightings each day and everyone says "nah its ridiculous, not possible, there is only a infinite universe out there, not possible at all. We can only see 1% of all matter, not possible at all." Humanity is disconnected from itself. I am discovering it through myself, realising i can alter my own version of reality with my mind. I'm showing you now. Its simple. The world doesn't have to be like this but it is because theres too much "what if." Thats the REASON, Humanity knows NOTHING. It has suffered the fate of its own ignorance in the most destructive way possible, we can progress from here but people need to let go of what they see and start questioning themselves and "why?" Otherwise the reason will always be from another point of view and not your own.

OMG get this finally - nobody cares if there are aliens out there, we have our own lives to run and thats a hard enough thing in today's world where a constant war rages for the right to live like a human.

BTW 90% of these "UFO sightings" are identified as weather balloons or planes or whatnot in like 5 minutes later, it's just people are so damn gullible these days they believe that pseudo-conspiracy bullshit, area 51 and all the others.

Blodo, my life isn't dominated by this. Do you think i stand on street corners preaching that aliens are amongst us and we must grab knives and kill each other until we find them. I don't no matter what you or your moths believe :p I mean for christ sake i'm at college, i'm going through the same education system i still have a few of teaching. All that changes that possibility for my own future is what happens between now and then. If nothing happens i haven't lost anything because i had nothing to gain anyway. All i've gained is more understanding for the world. You may not agree but i certainly have learnt much about myself from these views and looking at life in a different way is very benefitical. I could say i no longer believe in coincidence, there is only cause and effect.

I used to be hyped up by the alien stuff controlling earth and such, but then i turned 12. At one point you just get that knowledge that doesn't help you in anything is knowledge that is redundant. And you become cynical like me :p

Still i think that's way better off than all that spiritual shiznitz.

Edited by Blodo, 02 December 2005 - 07:45 PM.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#46 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:14 PM

Again, your ideas seem contradictive. 'We' have the real power, but 'we' don't exist, only 'I's?

Can't you use your own brain? :) We = multiple I's. We doesn't equal mind controlled robots. You cna still retain induviduality within a group, especially when the group is "humanity."

The more I think about it, the more the idea of worship seems to be humanity's driving factor. Let's make that Worship, with a W instead of a w.

Who is humanity worshipping? Isn't it our problem that we chose to worship? Even so its none of your business if someone chose to worship something, its their choice entirely.

You say a man's greatest fear is to die - I say it is the dying of the point of worship. A parent will die for his/her children, many people have died for their nation or ideology. Worship, Worship, Worship. You're ready to look stupid just to defend Icke's ideas. Worship.

That was totally out of the window, i'm sorry. Fear comes from anything, it accumalates and controls people purely. As for people dying for an ideology, yeah, thats called faith or aka extremism.

Oh CJ, your contradictions are also finally showing up ;) Your suggesting i am "defending" ickes "ideas", worship. Whos ideas are you defending? Your own? Or an ideology of "socialism"? Either way even if your defending your own your worshiping yourself with your philosophy above, which is nothing to do with the issue really.

Is it a shame people give their experience in this dimension to allow their children to experience it. Is that a crime because its somehow crazily considered "worship."

Hereby, I would like to change the idea that masses are stupid and that the individual is corrupt, to the idea that the masses are stupid and corrupt, and the individual is stupid and corrupt.
You say you're free, but you are not. The elite decides what you should wear, what you should look like, what morals and values you should have.

You are totally ignoring the point: They only have the power we give them. Humanity is not corrupt. How can we be corrupt? We made this world, we control this world, it is made from our spirituality and minds combined. We can change this reality, all we need to do is change ourselves. The problem is not external, its internal.

You can't wear 19th century clothing, because it isn't made, and if it were, the world would laugh at you.

FEAR. Yes, social norms. As i said, if you control social norms you are "powerful." Already said it. So it forces you to stop being an induvidual. CJ your arguing against me with the same points i have constantly repeated. Your arguing the same ideas over and over. So where is the disagreement?

What you're claiming, is that physical restrictions are more important than psychological ones. I highly disagree.

Bullshit, you just made that up. I never claimed anything in my life. I was claiming that we are in "mind prisons" how the hell is that not psychological. Read my words and stop manipulating them to create an argument that doesn't exist. The physical ones are all results of psychological controls and manipulations. Manipulations of the mind, else they do not exist. They are just illusions.

I dispose of any of the reptillians/Illuminati theories, simply because they don't hold any value, but are the Atheist Hypocrisy (call it the Intellectualist Hypocrisy, if you wish); The pure and utter denial that the person is guilty through worship. Which everyone, of course, is, since everyone worships.

Your quite right, i already said this on MSN they could easily be manipulated for BLAME. Humanities problem is NOT WORSHIP. Thats bullshit. It simply is the lack of responsibility for itself and this is why the minority control the majority and why we are heading towards somewhere we find so difficult to believe.

You agree with me that the state in Africa is worse than here. Africa is less centralised. I'm sorry, but the link between centralisation and wealth is a lot clearer to me than the link between reptiles and the New World Order.

No, africa is not less centralised, its still controlled by many of the same forces and it is being exploited and manipulated. WE CREATED AFRICA. Its nothing to do with physical centralisation. Centralisation just dicates that a minority controls a majority. Problem is we allow africa to be like it is.

Your contradicting yourself again, you just said above humanities problem is worship, but centralisation would be worship and faith in a minority of people. Make up your damn mind CJ. Your on about responsibilities that humanity doesn't accept then your BLAMING and external problem rather than an internal one. That is blind contradiction on the highest level. Your arguing my own argument with me just in different text totally ignoring what i am saying when really our opinions are very very similar about humanities roles in the world.

Centralisation is prosperity, as far as I can see it. And in my view, prosperity, happiness and health are really the key values in life, the others (freedom and the likes) are merely fake ideals to keep people occupied. Occupied with reptillian creatures that take over the world, instead of trying to see what humanity is and what it does. You've said this partially too, which is why I think your views don't mix all too well.

As i said its down to IGNORANCE. Your view is that centralisation fixes the world, my view is that humanity fixes the world. Your looking external i'm looking internal. That is really the only disagreement we have except your contradictions.

If humanity wants to solve its problems, it just do it itself. Thats why centralisation will never work. No form of government will ever work. It just takes away responsibility and power from the people and everyone becomes ignorant. Ignorance is suffering. This is why "communism" "never works." Centralisation is DANGEROUS. Hence hitler, stalin, saddam etc.

Oh yeah, and I don't really see current day as such an important period. Doubtfully that it provides any more psychological value than 100, 500 or 2000 years ago. Accepting that your time is irrelevant would mean that your objects of worship, if they are present in the modern day (and David Icke is), are worthless, which is of course, your fear. Worship, Worship, Worship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you link everything together that has happened today you will see. Stop looking at events and start looking at SIGNs. Yes signs can be misleading thats why i said "time will tell," but if these "theories" are correct then all hell will break loose shortly. We have time to FIX THIS, but we refuse to because of ignorance views like "worship" and fear of being incorrect.

As you see i couldn't care if i was "incorrect" either way i learn something from everything. You see a problem, understand why it happened, why you created it and then learn from it. "Evolve" or mature. Wisdom is eternal. You came to this life to experience as yourSELF not to say what is right and wrong. There is NO right and wrong, we make this reality with our minds. Its merely a physical illusion. So many people have had "near death experiences" and returned with similar experiences or information. People should stop oppressing each other and start freeing their minds and just be themselves. You cannot experience this dimension correctly if you only act upon your emotions or mind controls such as fear.

The education system itself is indoctrination. It makes people use only their "left brain" which is intellect, physical view of this world and "facts" etc. They only focus on remembering and storing ideas in that area of the brain and then later have to throw it back onto an exam paper to prove they can do it efficently. This creates a barrier and people lose touch with their "right brain" which is creativity and freedom in this experience to give yourSELF to this dimension.

And my fear is not worthlessness. There is no WORTH. Worth is simply an materialistic idea of how much something costs or looks. I said, i/we have nothing to gain in this world only wisdom and experience of ourselves. That is all that matters. Why should we let a minority remove our abilities to experience. People are too scared about peoples thoughts rather than cause and effect. Rather than consequence. That is control. That is where humanity hangs on a iron cross shouting "father why have you forsaken me." People keep looking out there when really all the answers are in here.

The state of which won't happen. Ever. Even in an anarchy. People are naturally attracted to themselves and into forming larger groups.

What is "natural." Its bullshit, we have intelligence. If we were only worried about our "natural" survival we would be living our in the wild still fighting over food and water. So natural simply is over cut by our intelligence. Our third dimension. People keep blaming other things. If i go out and murder something, its fine its just natural. Bullshit it is. Thats absolutely shit. People fear power. They do fear power. They fear responsibility. WE are only in this state because WE ALLOWED IT. You can't blame others or external entities blodo, it is purely US, WE, I.

We have always worked and lived in a group because a group is stronger than an individual. It's how nature equipped us and how everyone is keeping it that way. Denying that is basically denying your nature thingys..

The Induvidual can still remain in a group. Proof is people like JK Rowling or George Orwell or many other famous authors or writers. They are famous because they remained themselves and gave themselves to this world in an induvidualist way. If you deny that then life on earth is really just to feed other peoples desires and lusts of power.

#47 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:16 PM

BTW rereading your quote above i find it highly contradictive, with you first preaching the individuality and then the collective. You have to choose one cause they both exclude themselves.

We = Mutliple I's. Repeat until you get it ;) Its not contradictive. YOUR making your own contradictions so they align with your views. That is the problem. Everything thinks they are right when there is no "right." I'm not even right but i'm just trying to get people to look upon arguments differently.

I know what you are saying CJ and Blodo, i use to share the same views but i came to realise the views are simply manipulated controls. If your a "communist" or a "capitalist" or a "socialist" your controlled. You have taken opinions on and usedthem as your own, of course everyone does it. Thats why politics is simply a divider. Divide and rule. How it works. Divide by an illusion.

That is not a viable solution. Nature equipped us to live and survive in groups, your anarchy theory may happen someday but people will still form groups and eventually command structures. Individuality will not happen. Even great leaders cannot exist without their men of will to command.

Since when is there a set "logic" for how people can live? What the hell are you rambiling about :p We decided to live in groups because it helped us SURVIVE, yes. Nature in one way. But slowly we became more intelligent and entered a third dimension of existence. If we lived in groups now, well we do but i meant in order to survive for our nature, why do we have billions of people starving and suffering each day? 33,000 children die a day in africa. If we cared entirely about survival that wouldn't be happening. Its simply bullshit. Our nature is overulled by our apparent intelligence but we are manipulated by our own ignorance and lack of responsibility.

The I can still remain in a group. If it didn't i'd be calling you "human" rather than "blodo", wouldn't i?

There are just some things that are naturally wrong, such as man-slaughter. Will you deny that and say it's just an opinion?

Would it happen if we all respected each other. "Normal" as we call them, people don't do it. Only "deranged psychopaths." They only exist because we allow them too. We ignore the problem, we sentence them to jail and never try to learn or understand why they committed such a horrendous crime. That is our failure there. We don't listen to the problems, we pretend they don't exist. We throw stupid emotions at these people and we never solve any issues. These problems are entirely our fault. It's called ignorance. Right and wrong is an illusion, ignorance is a product of that illusion.

There are cannibals in parts of africa, they kill and eat each other. They don't see that as "right" or "wrong" so yes it is just an opinion. Culture and belief models many opinions and views of "morals." Of course it doesn't need to happen. Ending free will imo is foolish. Taking someone elses free will and experience in this life in exchange for your own appetite is stupid or your own feelings and hatreds. Yes. So there is some truth there but it only comes from intelligence.

A majority of people would never murder anyway blodo, those who do we should try to understand why instead blaming them for societies ills. We made those monsters. They are the products of imbalance within society. All crime is a product of imbalance within society.

We need a leader to give us inspiration. Without inspiration and leadership nothing would ever get done, now if leaders were truly redundant as you say, wouldn't nature eliminate them by making us naturally rebelious and individualistic?

Thats the PROBLEM. Everyone is lookign outside. Will anyone just accept responsibility for themselves in this experience and lead themselves. You don't NEED a leader. You need to understand why things happen and evolve/learn from it. That is all. Of course in this day in age i'm being too idealistic, its can happen but pople need to wake up more before it does happen. So there will be "leaders" amongst us and many of us will follow them, but really we lead ourselves. We make our own choices. Why are people scared of making their own choices. Thats all a "leader" does. Takes power from the few and makes a choice for them. It may not be right for them, this is why people should make their own choices.

LSD is a hallucinogenic drug. Anyone having large amounts of it would see pigs and cows flying in the air, not to mention the "3rd dimension experience" or whatever youre calling it.

Of course, as i said. Its a psycadellic drug, this means it affects your brain primarily. This also means you let go of all the strain within the world and your mind becomes "free" in a certain sense. This could also mean your frequency rate of hearing and seeing could change and you could easily see into the higher or lower dimensions.

I smoke weed occassionally. Its a nice drug, i prefer it to alcohol. Alcohol is boring and makes you feel fucking ill. If you do ever smoke cannabis. Turn on the TV, flick to the news and watch a politician. I have no idea what weed does, but its similar to LSD, just weaker. You see right through bullshit, another hidden area of your brain thats unused i expect. You can so easily tell when a politician is lying. Even talking to normal people you can see right through their crap and see their true meaning. Its amazing. Weed = 1337 :p

And regarding the near-death experience: with a lack of oxygen the brain starts kind of malfunctioning, that's when that light thing hallucination is produced. If people recover they'll remember that, and usually call this bullshit a "sign from god" or something similar.

Thats the typical view. People need to stop think "sign from god." YOU ARE GOD. God is you. There is one consciousness and we are all results of this consciousness. We are infinite, we are this consciousness. We are infinite, we have no beginning and no end. See all that exists is us, all that exists is I. This existence is "God" experience himself. [b]I[/i]Experiencing self. Self experiencing self.

Hence why you have a mind of your own to put your own facts together, but in your case it's kind of getting too far.

Exactly! Disconnecting from the herd and thinking for yourself. They nickname it "dissent" but its just being true to yourself.

And when can you dicate who is taking what too far blodo. Can you say people flying planes into buildings is taking it too far? Or am i taking it too far because i'm questioning my existence and trying to understand the world through myself? Thats the illusion that creates ignorance. Stop believing falsities and just respect everyone elses right to think. You can't really judge anyone other than yourself. By judging yourself your judging everything anyway, if you get me. :p

No one is denying it. It's just nobody cares. There are more important things to care about.

Like what poltiican is best for you? ROFL. This is why humanity doesn't progress anywhere. They suffer the fate of the reason and fall into the abyss of illusion. This is important because it shows there is more out there than we want to believe.

OMG get this finally - nobody cares if there are aliens out there, we have our own lives to run and thats a hard enough thing in today's world where a constant war rages for the right to live like a human.

Thats humanities problem. They just don't CARE. When we look upon the world like this then we will never progress anywhere spiritual or even mentally for that matter.

BTW 90% of these "UFO sightings" are identified as weather balloons or planes or whatnot in like 5 minutes later, it's just people are so damn gullible these days they believe that pseudo-conspiracy bullshit, area 51 and all the others.

True, but then there are crop circles and that isn't simply an accident. You wouldn't know if these UFO sightings are true or false anyway. Neither would I, i'm just saying because we get images of crop circles. Its nothing to do with "conspiracy" blodo. There are other races of beings that exist out there. Crop circles are simply made so people wake up. They are SIGNs. They are so people begin to question their own existence and try to understand why its happening. We are so deep down in an illusion we are stuck. These crop circles are just a result to try wake people up and realise that they are living in an illusion. Just because UFOs or aliens may exist it simply doesn't mean theres a conspiracy. Alright i've talked of a potential alien race that might be here but this could be external to that also. They are targetting humanities minds to expand it beyond the bullshit we believe.

I used to be hyped up by the alien stuff controlling earth and such, but then i turned 12.

ROFL :p Next time i get a chance i'll squash you and your moths with my big fly swat :p You puny 12 year old! :p

At one point you just get that knowledge that doesn't help you in anything is knowledge that is redundant. And you become cynical like me

At one point when you realise this is all relevent to our existence on this earth you shall soon realise what an blind illusion we are living in and realise why its revelent. Until then continue with your moth conspiracy trying to take over the autumn. FR34K :p

Still i think that's way better off than all that spiritual shiznitz.

Opinion matters.... As i've so easily seen... :)


One note: I think people should rewatch the matrix trilogy and focus on HOW relevent it is TODAY.

#48 Blodo

Blodo

    The one who disagrees

  • Project Team
  • 3,002 posts
  • Location:Eastern Europe
  • Projects:siteMeister, Mental Omega
  •  The wise guy

Posted 04 December 2005 - 06:02 PM

Instinct still overrules our intelligence, no matter what you say. That's why we live in groups, why we look to a leader etc. As you said we aren't robots. There, your theory done :)

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#49 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 04 December 2005 - 06:16 PM

Bullshit, once you reach the age of 4 your no longer pissing or shitting over the carpet because its "natural." So there, your theories done :)

#50 ComradeJ

ComradeJ

    Comrade Jamgee

  • Project Team
  • 2,067 posts
  • Location:Close to Daeda!
  • Projects:Red Alert: ReGeneration

Posted 04 December 2005 - 07:57 PM

EDIT: Ah, fuck this quote system. I'm too lazy to correct.

This is getting more ridiculous as we go along...

Again, your ideas seem contradictive. 'We' have the real power, but 'we' don't exist, only 'I's?

Can't you use your own brain? :p We = multiple I's. We doesn't equal mind controlled robots. You cna still retain induviduality within a group, especially when the group is "humanity."


To what purpose? You'd rather be a poor, unhealthy, unhappy individual rather than part of a rich, healthy and happy group.
Let's look at medieval times. People were grouped back then. WE are humanity, WE believe in God, God loves US. No individuality. And what did it cause? People died by the hundreds, thousands. How much of Europe died of the plague? I have no idea, but WW II is nothing compared to that (in percentages). Yet still they kept their sanity, still didn't commit mass suicide, still didn't blow up little children. Individuality hasn't done anything for us... Well, written 1984, perhaps, but if that's all...

The more I think about it, the more the idea of worship seems to be humanity's driving factor. Let's make that Worship, with a W instead of a w.

Who is humanity worshipping? Isn't it our problem that we chose to worship? Even so its none of your business if someone chose to worship something, its their choice entirely.


We're worshipping humans, wether directly or indirectly, always. We don't chose to worship. Same as we don't chose to think, chose to live. It's us, it's the combination of instinct and intellect, it's more powerful than any human emotion. There is no choice. You can't chose wether you're human or not, you just are. Why aren't you chosing not to worship David Icke, and whoever else you're worshipping?

You say a man's greatest fear is to die - I say it is the dying of the point of worship. A parent will die for his/her children, many people have died for their nation or ideology. Worship, Worship, Worship. You're ready to look stupid just to defend Icke's ideas. Worship.

That was totally out of the window, i'm sorry. Fear comes from anything, it accumalates and controls people purely. As for people dying for an ideology, yeah, thats called faith or aka extremism.


Disprove me. Faith, hmm, isn't that worship in it's purest form?

Oh CJ, your contradictions are also finally showing up :p Your suggesting i am "defending" ickes "ideas", worship. Whos ideas are you defending? Your own? Or an ideology of "socialism"? Either way even if your defending your own your worshiping yourself with your philosophy above, which is nothing to do with the issue really.


Of course I'm worshipping, I'm no animal, I'm a human. I worship the creators of Deus Ex, for having such nice political views on a combined humanity. I worship Lamoot, because I'd love to make models like he does. I worship my parents, because they're so nice. I too worship Orwell, because his books shows how weak individuality is against a mass.

Hereby, I would like to change the idea that masses are stupid and that the individual is corrupt, to the idea that the masses are stupid and corrupt, and the individual is stupid and corrupt.
You say you're free, but you are not. The elite decides what you should wear, what you should look like, what morals and values you should have.

You are totally ignoring the point: They only have the power we give them. Humanity is not corrupt. How can we be corrupt? We made this world, we control this world, it is made from our spirituality and minds combined. We can change this reality, all we need to do is change ourselves. The problem is not external, its internal.


You are nothing on your own. If you're such an idealist, why don't you go live in the forest? Because you can't do without other people. People, not zombies, persons, with emotions. You're crazy to think you could live anywhere near like this without other people, or centralisation.

The problem is not external, right, so there's no invisible force of reptillians or Illuminati. Blaming people/things of which there's no proof is, in my view, stupid.

You can't wear 19th century clothing, because it isn't made, and if it were, the world would laugh at you.

FEAR. Yes, social norms. As i said, if you control social norms you are "powerful." Already said it. So it forces you to stop being an induvidual. CJ your arguing against me with the same points i have constantly repeated. Your arguing the same ideas over and over. So where is the disagreement?


Fear that your worshipped one won't worship you.

You say you can be alone, I don't. Worship is humanity's main driving factor, the mass is strong, but that is not bad. Kicking against anything that exists is so easy.

What you're claiming, is that physical restrictions are more important than psychological ones. I highly disagree.

Bullshit, you just made that up. I never claimed anything in my life. I was claiming that we are in "mind prisons" how the hell is that not psychological. Read my words and stop manipulating them to create an argument that doesn't exist. The physical ones are all results of psychological controls and manipulations. Manipulations of the mind, else they do not exist. They are just illusions.


But you're asking people to break away from any illusions, and I think history has proven this impossible.

I dispose of any of the reptillians/Illuminati theories, simply because they don't hold any value, but are the Atheist Hypocrisy (call it the Intellectualist Hypocrisy, if you wish); The pure and utter denial that the person is guilty through worship. Which everyone, of course, is, since everyone worships.

Your quite right, i already said this on MSN they could easily be manipulated for BLAME. Humanities problem is NOT WORSHIP. Thats bullshit. It simply is the lack of responsibility for itself and this is why the minority control the majority and why we are heading towards somewhere we find so difficult to believe.


The only thing bad about the minority controlling the majority is the minority. There's nothing wrong with controlling and the majority. Most, if not all, people don't know what's best for them.

You agree with me that the state in Africa is worse than here. Africa is less centralised. I'm sorry, but the link between centralisation and wealth is a lot clearer to me than the link between reptiles and the New World Order.

No, africa is not less centralised, its still controlled by many of the same forces and it is being exploited and manipulated. WE CREATED AFRICA. Its nothing to do with physical centralisation. Centralisation just dicates that a minority controls a majority. Problem is we allow africa to be like it is.


Look at the slums. Do you think they have ANY communication whatsoever with the government? Of course not! The world doesn't care about them, that's what happens to individuals. They can't do shit. Ever heard of a wellfare state? Is that not because there is a mass instead of individualism?

Your contradicting yourself again, you just said above humanities problem is worship, but centralisation would be worship and faith in a minority of people. Make up your damn mind CJ. Your on about responsibilities that humanity doesn't accept then your BLAMING and external problem rather than an internal one. That is blind contradiction on the highest level. Your arguing my own argument with me just in different text totally ignoring what i am saying when really our opinions are very very similar about humanities roles in the world.


Humanity has NO responsibilities. Worship is not bad. It kept people together during the crappy times of the middle ages. It causes centralisation, which in turn creates specialisation, which created the very computer you're sitting behind, the very varied foods you eat.

Centralisation is prosperity, as far as I can see it. And in my view, prosperity, happiness and health are really the key values in life, the others (freedom and the likes) are merely fake ideals to keep people occupied. Occupied with reptillian creatures that take over the world, instead of trying to see what humanity is and what it does. You've said this partially too, which is why I think your views don't mix all too well.

As i said its down to IGNORANCE. Your view is that centralisation fixes the world, my view is that humanity fixes the world. Your looking external i'm looking internal. That is really the only disagreement we have except your contradictions.


Ignorance is Strength.

If humanity wants to solve its problems, it just do it itself. Thats why centralisation will never work. No form of government will ever work. It just takes away responsibility and power from the people and everyone becomes ignorant. Ignorance is suffering. This is why "communism" "never works." Centralisation is DANGEROUS. Hence hitler, stalin, saddam etc.


Yes, thank God we don't have any small scale tyrants, who would, I don't know, molest their childs. Oh wait, there's tons more of them!

Oh yeah, and I don't really see current day as such an important period. Doubtfully that it provides any more psychological value than 100, 500 or 2000 years ago. Accepting that your time is irrelevant would mean that your objects of worship, if they are present in the modern day (and David Icke is), are worthless, which is of course, your fear. Worship, Worship, Worship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you link everything together that has happened today you will see. Stop looking at events and start looking at SIGNs. Yes signs can be misleading thats why i said "time will tell," but if these "theories" are correct then all hell will break loose shortly. We have time to FIX THIS, but we refuse to because of ignorance views like "worship" and fear of being incorrect.


We'll see. Hell hasn't broken loose yet, and I doubt it will... Time will tell...

And my fear is not worthlessness. There is no WORTH. Worth is simply an materialistic idea of how much something costs or looks. I said, i/we have nothing to gain in this world only wisdom and experience of ourselves. That is all that matters. Why should we let a minority remove our abilities to experience. People are too scared about peoples thoughts rather than cause and effect. Rather than consequence. That is control. That is where humanity hangs on a iron cross shouting "father why have you forsaken me." People keep looking out there when really all the answers are in here.


Than why do you want to explain Icke's ideas to us, possibly even convince us of those? Because you want us to worship them too, forming a GROUP!



Tom, you have no right to speak of the crappiness of centralisation until you've lived in the wilderness on your own for five years. Your view is simply too biased because all the world seems 'given' to us. You don't realise how much you'd miss until it's actually not there.

Edited by ComradeJ, 04 December 2005 - 08:24 PM.

You cannot compare pissing to thinking
- SoulReaver

#51 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 05 December 2005 - 02:25 PM

This is getting more ridiculous as we go along...

No it isn't, your simply viewing it with a mind closed on this society as if its all that exists. Your next quote proves this:

To what purpose? You'd rather be a poor, unhealthy, unhappy individual rather than part of a rich, healthy and happy group.

Rich and poor is nothing to do with induvidual. How the hell is external relations to money anything to do with SELF or consciousness?

Let's look at medieval times. People were grouped back then.

And everything was centralised around the king and queens, bingo! You got it. Again knowledge was with held. We live how we do today because of the knowledge we have. Centralisation simply holds back knowledge from the population, that is exactly ITS PURPOSE.

WE are humanity, WE believe in God, God loves US. No individuality.

Ok then human, from this day forth i will no longer call you "ComradeJ" i will simply call you "human." You are not an induvidual, you are "humanity" apparently. Look we make up the consciousness of humanity, but on this level we are induviduals. Even within a group you still retain induviduality. Who are you in society CJ. Are you Joey or are you "a student" or "a socialist"? They are just labels to mask a "group" and centralise the ideas within that group however most "socialists" agree with a majority of "socialism" but disagree with other aspects. Are they still "socialists"? No they are THEMSELVES. I don't understand why there is such a rush of energy to try prove people are not induvdiuals but simply a group. Groups cannot exist without the induviduals within them. When induviduals make a group they don't merge as one they are still induviduals. The "merging" comes at an expanded consciousness apparently...

And what did it cause? People died by the hundreds, thousands. How much of Europe died of the plague?

Knowledge = power. Centralisation = with holding knowledge. How can you empower the people if you with hold knowledge? Your defending the same ideas as i am but on the different end of the stick.

Individuality hasn't done anything for us... Well, written 1984, perhaps, but if that's all...

Yes obviously. Those documentaries you watched on TV are simply because everyone thinks the same... Sorry CJ but induviduality is not what your trying to make it out to be.

My name is Tom. I am me. Just because i am part of humanity does that change who i am? No it doesn't. I might have once said "i am a socialist" and aligned myself to the stereotype but i'm still me. I'm still here amongst the rest of humanity but it doesn't mean i'm not me. Me goes on many different levels. We all make up humanity. Humanity cannot exist without our consciousness.

We're worshipping humans, wether directly or indirectly, always. We don't chose to worship. Same as we don't chose to think, chose to live.

If you didn't choose to "live" then why are you here? Of course you chose to live, you don't just magically appear conscious inside a physical body once a sperm meets an egg.

You choose to think. If you don't thats your fault. Stop blaming others for your own problems. That is the ISSUE with humanity as one consciousness. We refuse to take responsibility for ourselves. Look what happened when 2 towers came falling down on 9/11. People were like "OMG this is terrible, save us please georgy. Save us government." They just get more powerful from that fear. It's ridiculous how foolish humanity is becoming. We have too little knowledge but we have even less wisdom.

It's us, it's the combination of instinct and intellect, it's more powerful than any human emotion. There is no choice. You can't chose wether you're human or not, you just are.

Before this life you chose to become conscious in this reality. This is being found out more and more each day. This is nothing to do with your "worship" you keep blaming it is to do with existence.

Why aren't you chosing not to worship David Icke, and whoever else you're worshipping?

Since when have i worshipped david icke? Are you saying humanity should close down its mind and just stop thinking all together. It's impossible to look at someone and like or love them. Your "worshipping" problem isn't existent. It simply is false. It doesn't contain any issue. The problem is people not thinking for themselves. Am i "worshipping" david icke because i think hes done some good work to help people realise THEMSELVES that there is more to life. He gives the knowledge however they use it is their choice. Its nothing to do with worship. It is simply CHOICE.My choices and experiences are none of your business personally as yours are none of mine. It is simply choice that allows us to share them experiences.

I have walked a life or my own, you have walked a life of your own. If you wish to show your induviduality by sharing your views that is your choice. If induviduality does not exist, as you seem to be trying to persuade me, why do we continue to have seperate conscious lives on the 3rd dimensional consciousness. Simply because on this consciousness we are INDUVIDUALS or "Faces" of a wider of more expanded consciousness called "humanity" which is very another "part" of a wider consciousness called "Gaia" or Earth. As we call her. It goes on. The interpretation of GOD is EVERYTHING. God is infinity. God is creation. Infinite love, infinite creation. We cannot exist if god did not exist as god cannot exist if we did not exist.

Where am i getting this information from? Its been within me all this time. It just took a few years to rip open the conditioning, open my mind and "create" it with my mind. Creation = love. Love of SELF.

Disprove me. Faith, hmm, isn't that worship in it's purest form?

Faith is belief. Your belief that humanities problems is down to worship is simply faith in yourself. Are you not worshipping yourself? Come on CJ, do you see how this "worship" stuff simply doesn't work. To not "worship" is to not think at all. Robot, robot, robot.

Of course I'm worshipping, I'm no animal, I'm a human. I worship the creators of Deus Ex, for having such nice political views on a combined humanity. I worship Lamoot, because I'd love to make models like he does. I worship my parents, because they're so nice. I too worship Orwell, because his books shows how weak individuality is against a mass.

Exactly. Therefore orwell shows were we are going if we continue to to hand power to other people because we are scared of ourselves.

You are nothing on your own. If you're such an idealist, why don't you go live in the forest? Because you can't do without other people. People, not zombies, persons, with emotions. You're crazy to think you could live anywhere near like this without other people, or centralisation.

Because i CHOOSE to remain here, this is where i was born and i choose to remain here for the time being. If your so 100% certain that you are RIGHT, then your falling simply into a trap. I have never suggested i was right. I am just arguing on the basis of the infinite universe and my own mind of how this world could be developing and the reason why i am conscious within this "TIME." Since when could you judge anyone else upon their views. "Get out of society because you don't agree with me." That is fascism, i'm not calling you a fascist but that is simply where intolerence breeds. Do you see now. The induvidual is "attacked" for showing themselves. I'm just making an example of this CJ, its not like i was "offended," so don't take it that way. rofl. That is belief. Not that this matters. It only matters when that belief begins to manifest itself and start to push those views upon others. That is the centralisation i am on about. Control of others due to belief and maybe even knowledge. Most knowledge under centralised societies is with held because knowledge is power.

The problem is not external, right, so there's no invisible force of reptillians or Illuminati. Blaming people/things of which there's no proof is, in my view, stupid.

There is much evidence. Just because no "official" and controlled source says it, there is much evidence. Do you believe everything you see on the news? Of course you don't, so if something does not appear on the news or you cannot see it, do you not believe it? Of course you don't. You believe what you think sounds right. Sadly people don't know anything anymore because views are so mixed up by the constant conditioning of the "state." We are ignorant, so how can you come to such a certain conclusion? This is nothing to do with others this is to do with yourself, myself. I have never suggested this was "true" or they did "exist" i simply argue what most people don't hear. Why? Because otherwise we get the same old boring discussions of what side of the face is better than the other, socialism or capitalism. One face, divided in two.

Fear that your worshipped one won't worship you.

Fear that you are powerful beyond your wildest dreams?

You say you can be alone, I don't. Worship is humanity's main driving factor, the mass is strong, but that is not bad. Kicking against anything that exists is so easy.

Bullshit i said that. How can you be "alone" if your everything that exists and everything is you.

You've confuse me now, your first defending something then your suggesting exact what i said in a different context. Why?

But you're asking people to break away from any illusions, and I think history has proven this impossible.

History itself is an illusion. If there is only consciousness, then we manifested this one. Everything stands still, time is just a factor that is noticed within the 3rd dimension and obviously in a few higher dimensions. If we stuck "time" on a line you'd find it runs "straight," parallel. You stick all time and "worldlines" of the third dimension onto this one you'll find they also run "straight." Whilst it might be 2005 here in another "worldline" it could be 1999 or any moment within existence. Time is just the way we judge this experience. History only exists because WE allowed it to exist. It only happened because WE allowed it to happen.

Politicans do not fight wars. People like you and I become the soldiers in wars.

The only thing bad about the minority controlling the majority is the minority. There's nothing wrong with controlling and the majority. Most, if not all, people don't know what's best for them.

Control is exactly that. It stops people experiencing due to belief and different points of views in this world.

Look at the slums. Do you think they have ANY communication whatsoever with the government? Of course not! The world doesn't care about them, that's what happens to individuals. They can't do shit. Ever heard of a wellfare state? Is that not because there is a mass instead of individualism?

No, it is not. It is due to lack of knowledge and lack of power and responsibility. Do you think they chose their government to make them live like that. Do you think they CHOSE to have corporations exploiting them for cheap profit and centralisation of the world market? No. They did not. In an "external" way they did. They continue to choose to allow it to happen because they are ignorant. Once one however realises that their fate is in their own hands they will do something about it. It is because THEY believe they are POWERLESS. In reality, they chose to make themselves powerless by not taking it back.

Welfare state = good in this type of system but again it simply removes responsibility for yourself.

As said in the matrix: The problem is CHOICE.

Humanity has NO responsibilities.

Oh right. Stop eating then CJ because its not your responsibility to feed yourself. That was the most ignorant thing i have ever heard anyone suggest in my entire life. How the hell or where the hell did that come from? Responsibility comes from power. We all have power to chose our own destinies and fates. We just hand it away. When a hurricane strikes new orleans who is to blame? George bush. Why? Because people say they are responsible for not protecting them. I fell into this trap too before. Bullshit. People are responisible for global warming or whatever is going on. How can they blame someone else for their ignorance?

Humanity has responsibility for itSELF. It's planet, etc.

Worship is not bad. It kept people together during the crappy times of the middle ages.

I'm sorry but your still blaming something that doesn't exist in a "real" way. The "crappy" time during the middle ages was due to choice, not just because it randomly happened.

It causes centralisation, which in turn creates specialisation, which created the very computer you're sitting behind, the very varied foods you eat.

Yes, majority of the foods which are poisoned with pesticides and products such as aspartame. Food which is occassionally diseased, such as BSE or CJD crisis. Which if we don't do something about will arise again on a larger more devestating scale. I took responsibility for this possibility by boycotting meat. Its not due to fear its just because i don't fancy eating shitty food anymore. I'm even gettiing organic food without the pesticides, apparently. More healthy, and health = wealth.

The reason this shit happens is because the knowledge is withheld. People act as if none of it is their problem. "Oh government save us," it simply is their problem us much as anyone elses.

I could have created this computer myself with the knowledge. Why is it so amazing that a company made it easier for me by putting it together? Your point is entirely invalid and has nothing to do with centralisation. Your belief is that centralisation means groups of people when infact by centralisation i mean the centralisation of power and the control of knowledge.

If i work in a group i share my knowledge with everyone else so they can all learn from it, evolve and move on. If anyone asks i'll share my knowledge with them for the same reason. Its pathetic to hold back knowledge just because it gives you a false sense of power and security. Oh we need those people because they know something we don't. Is that the only way humanity can "worship" itself and gain self value? By the illusion of power?

Ignorance is Strength.

Holy shit. Your actually now taking in double speak? Ignorance equals stength for a short time. It is a short and small minded view. THats why its called double speak because it has many meanings. If you didn't know a tornado was coming. Just assume you were deaf and didn't check out your window. That ignorance gives you a false sense of security, then when it hits you say "i didn't know." Ignorance is the inability to see consequences before an event happens. This is why humanity never progresses anywhere, simply because we have never learn from anything. Wisdom equals strength not ignorance.

Yes, thank God we don't have any small scale tyrants, who would, I don't know, molest their childs. Oh wait, there's tons more of them!

Whos problem is that? OURS. The sarcasm just shows arrogance to an issue to refuse to accept is partly your problem too. Your part of conscious humanity. These people are just results of our imbalance.

We'll see. Hell hasn't broken loose yet, and I doubt it will... Time will tell...

Of course, but the signs are already there and what i prefer to do when i see signs is mentally prepare. If it doesn't happen then thats a "bonus" isn't it?

Than why do you want to explain Icke's ideas to us, possibly even convince us of those? Because you want us to worship them too, forming a GROUP!

No. I explain them because its best to know all possibilities and make up your own DAMN mind. Stop acting like i have to persuade you. I am just arguing to add the other end of the argument which will go on until we both feel we have learnt enough from each other. Thats the point of SHARING views and knowledge. To learn and gain wisdom.

Tom, you have no right to speak of the crappiness of centralisation until you've lived in the wilderness on your own for five years. Your view is simply too biased because all the world seems 'given' to us. You don't realise how much you'd miss until it's actually not there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have no right to speak of the "crappiness" of decentralisation until you've lived in a society that gives all its knowledge to the people and everyone chooses their own path of life. Guess what, that society doesn't exist. Guess what, we can make it. The problem is choice.

#52 Athena

Athena

    Embody the Truth

  • Undead
  • 6,946 posts
  •  Former Community Leader

Posted 05 December 2005 - 05:20 PM

Those not working quotes don't make it easier to read :rolleyes:.

#53 ComradeJ

ComradeJ

    Comrade Jamgee

  • Project Team
  • 2,067 posts
  • Location:Close to Daeda!
  • Projects:Red Alert: ReGeneration

Posted 05 December 2005 - 06:00 PM

I'll keep this short.

Blaat, thanks for your ever-so-insightful and useful comment [/sarcasm]

Hybor, society is kindergarten where the kids pick their teachers from amongst themselves. Some may be awful, and others just bad, but no kid can come up to the level of a teacher. If humanity had a teacher, that'd be grand. Illuminati, reptillians, an AI, I don't care. As long as it's smarter.
From what I understand, you'd rather not go to kindergarten at all than go to the place if kids pick their own teachers from amongst them.
You cannot compare pissing to thinking
- SoulReaver

#54 Blodo

Blodo

    The one who disagrees

  • Project Team
  • 3,002 posts
  • Location:Eastern Europe
  • Projects:siteMeister, Mental Omega
  •  The wise guy

Posted 05 December 2005 - 06:37 PM

Bullshit, once you reach the age of 4 your no longer pissing or shitting over the carpet because its "natural." So there, your theories done :rolleyes:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then may you explain why people fuck have sex? :blink:
Isn't that part of our instinct to have pleasure and to procreate? Owned your theory once more :p

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#55 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 05 December 2005 - 06:47 PM

Hybor, society is kindergarten where the kids pick their teachers from amongst themselves. Some may be awful, and others just bad, but no kid can come up to the level of a teacher. If humanity had a teacher, that'd be grand. Illuminati, reptillians, an AI, I don't care. As long as it's smarter.
From what I understand, you'd rather not go to kindergarten at all than go to the place if kids pick their own teachers from amongst them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats an extremely lazy and backwards ideology. If these "reptillians" do exist then they would not have come here to teach us my friend. The new world order simply isn't a teaching ground, its to make slaves for their agenda. To get where they are now, if they are indeed external beings they had to teach themselves to get there. You are being lazy saying "oh someone else do it, not my problem." That is again why humanity is where it is today. If we want to progress we do it ourselves. WE came to this earth to experience this life, not to pick foolish teachers and be brainwashed by their own views.

Then may you explain why people fuck have sex? :rolleyes:
Isn't that part of our instinct to have pleasure and to procreate? Owned your theory once more :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do not say you've own me until i've responded you freak! :p Sex is both pleasure and procreate. Creation is love, as i've said and explained before. Creation is creative. Induviduality. The pleasure that also comes out of it links to making that love. In the higher dimensions it is said sexuality is far more creative that simply just to "survive," we are not on the "level" of animals, we do it for more than just survival.

There pwned you own theory once more bloby, beat that one :lol:

#56 ComradeJ

ComradeJ

    Comrade Jamgee

  • Project Team
  • 2,067 posts
  • Location:Close to Daeda!
  • Projects:Red Alert: ReGeneration

Posted 06 December 2005 - 12:12 PM

Thats an extremely lazy and backwards ideology. If these "reptillians" do exist then they would not have come here to teach us my friend. The new world order simply isn't a teaching ground, its to make slaves for their agenda. To get where they are now, if they are indeed external beings they had to teach themselves to get there. You are being lazy saying "oh someone else do it, not my problem." That is again why humanity is where it is today. If we want to progress we do it ourselves. WE came to this earth to experience this life, not to pick foolish teachers and be brainwashed by their own views.


So, what is their agenda? Seriously, just having the world as your mindless slaves isn't as much fun as it sounds. You always see the unknown as a bad thing. See the potential. For all we know, the Illuminati are really cool dudes.
Of course someone else do it, humanity can't. It has provided us with countless wars, famine, rapists, idiots, Ali, you name it. Humanity either has to evolve into being able to lead, or be lead itself, either of which isn't especially worthy of discussion. Apparently, humanity has chosen George W. Bush as the most powerful person on Earth. I can't imagine Illuminati or reptillians being any more stupid than that.
You cannot compare pissing to thinking
- SoulReaver

#57 Blodo

Blodo

    The one who disagrees

  • Project Team
  • 3,002 posts
  • Location:Eastern Europe
  • Projects:siteMeister, Mental Omega
  •  The wise guy

Posted 06 December 2005 - 03:53 PM

Do not say you've own me until i've responded you freak! :p Sex is both pleasure and procreate. Creation is love, as i've said and explained before. Creation is creative. Induviduality. The pleasure that also comes out of it links to making that love. In the higher dimensions it is said sexuality is far more creative that simply just to "survive," we are not on the "level" of animals, we do it for more than just survival.

There pwned you own theory once more bloby, beat that one :p

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We do it to satisfy our primitive lusts :cool: That's the only answer, any other would be irrational.

And haha owned you again :cool:

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#58 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 07 December 2005 - 04:58 PM

So, what is their agenda? Seriously, just having the world as your mindless slaves isn't as much fun as it sounds. You always see the unknown as a bad thing. See the potential. For all we know, the Illuminati are really cool dudes.

So death to millions of innocent people is them being "cool dudes" throughout history? Their agenda said to state "those who do not agree with our system can remain seperate from it and starve themselves to death." Thats "cool dudes" too? I dunno? Depends what your view on that is. What about the intention from zionists to create a third world war and bring a global fascist state. The idea of lowering the population to about 1 billion for this state and trying to keep it at that level. Thats "cool"? Doesn't sound "fun" to me. If these people do exist as they are said, which is very likely due to logic and simply just understanding why events happen, you will see they have their own intention. They don't care about mankind, their simple agenda is slavery.

Of course someone else do it, humanity can't.

We can. What is stopping us? Our ignorance and laziness.

It has provided us with countless wars, famine, rapists, idiots, Ali, you name it. Humanity either has to evolve into being able to lead, or be lead itself, either of which isn't especially worthy of discussion.

This is where the ancient 2012 prophecy comes in. The "energies" which is another vast theory itself, which i believe is true because of all the people who have come back from Near Death Experiences and said they've "seen" it. This is why times are getting more radical. If their agenda doesn't begin to pick up pace now then humanity might "free" itself. The "4th and 5th dimensions" are simply "falling" into the 3rd. This means our consciousness will expand in this shift after 2012. I think John Titor: http://www.johntitor.com suggests a good view for that with the ability to "time travel" to other "worldlines." An as he said CERN is already beginning to research this now. Time will tell, as it always does.

Apparently, humanity has chosen George W. Bush as the most powerful person on Earth. I can't imagine Illuminati or reptillians being any more stupid than that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are many "factions" that make up the illuminati apparently. This involves freemasonry, which has been in existence for centuries. Even to the point they have their ideology everywhere and anywhere. "Microchipping" is their next area. These microchips have been "predicted" by icke for years and now they are introducing them saying "get your kids microchipped." Save them from terrorists or paedophiles. Thats not all the microchips will do in the future.

I've said it for a long long time. Bush is jsut a scapegoat. Shit goes "wrong" and people attack him because hes the figure head. All president have been. Research bohemian grove. People say "no its not possible." I've seen a picture of "tricky dicky richard nixon" and reagan together at bohemian grove LONG before their presidencies with many other elitist idealists. Many world bankers and corporate "genious." Take a look yourself: http://www.greatdrea...hemian-1947.jpg

These people are in from the start, not simply just "appear" and run for president or prime minister.

#59 ComradeJ

ComradeJ

    Comrade Jamgee

  • Project Team
  • 2,067 posts
  • Location:Close to Daeda!
  • Projects:Red Alert: ReGeneration

Posted 08 December 2005 - 08:00 AM

So, what is their agenda? Seriously, just having the world as your mindless slaves isn't as much fun as it sounds. You always see the unknown as a bad thing. See the potential. For all we know, the Illuminati are really cool dudes.

So death to millions of innocent people is them being "cool dudes" throughout history? Their agenda said to state "those who do not agree with our system can remain seperate from it and starve themselves to death." Thats "cool dudes" too? I dunno? Depends what your view on that is. What about the intention from zionists to create a third world war and bring a global fascist state. The idea of lowering the population to about 1 billion for this state and trying to keep it at that level. Thats "cool"? Doesn't sound "fun" to me. If these people do exist as they are said, which is very likely due to logic and simply just understanding why events happen, you will see they have their own intention. They don't care about mankind, their simple agenda is slavery.


If you'd know their agenda, they'd be the worst secret society in history. Besides, you said it yourself, evil doesn't exist. It's just an opinion. Worth hearing them out, their ideas have lasted for 200 years, which is a lot longer than yours.

Of course someone else do it, humanity can't.

We can. What is stopping us? Our ignorance and laziness.


Yes, I could ever-so-easily rid the world of rapists, famines, wars and what-not if I just tried...

Apparently, humanity has chosen George W. Bush as the most powerful person on Earth. I can't imagine Illuminati or reptillians being any more stupid than that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are many "factions" that make up the illuminati apparently. This involves freemasonry, which has been in existence for centuries. Even to the point they have their ideology everywhere and anywhere. "Microchipping" is their next area. These microchips have been "predicted" by icke for years and now they are introducing them saying "get your kids microchipped." Save them from terrorists or paedophiles. Thats not all the microchips will do in the future.


Ah, well DX has a nice view on this, where this guy wants to implant everybody with nanites, so they can instantly communicate with eachother, sharing knowledge and forming the perfect democracy.
You cannot compare pissing to thinking
- SoulReaver

#60 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 08 December 2005 - 09:52 AM

If you'd know their agenda, they'd be the worst secret society in history. Besides, you said it yourself, evil doesn't exist. It's just an opinion. Worth hearing them out, their ideas have lasted for 200 years, which is a lot longer than yours.

Maybe so, but we fought against fascism in World War II, now your saying accept it because of "their ideas" have survived. I mean what?

Yes, I could ever-so-easily rid the world of rapists, famines, wars and what-not if I just tried...

If you want peace then DON'T FIGHT. Its that ignorance that causes war. If yoiu want peace you can't fight for it. People are too taken in by the propaganda and bullshit and fight for any cause no matter if its left, right or center. Wars are manipulated but they can only happen if WE choose to fight them. Famines are also manipulated. A CIA scientist said that there is technology that can develop desert into lush land, they just don't use it. Why? Because the element of control until they need to use it. Rapists, people who usually had bad childhoods or truama which developed them into psychopaths, if not then there are many other explainations. I dislike the condemning laws. "You did this crime, now do the time." Its never "why did you commit this crime" and getting to understand the criminal and then from that knowledge trying to PREVENT similar crimes happening by eliminating the problem.

Ah, well DX has a nice view on this, where this guy wants to implant everybody with nanites, so they can instantly communicate with eachother, sharing knowledge and forming the perfect democracy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Democracy doesn't exist in the real term, so how would that be possible?

Things like DX, 1984, the matrix, star wars and even Harry Potter don't exist simply because of "coincidence," there is so much symbolicness and philosophy within these films and games its ridiculous.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users