56 replies to this topic

[Gilgamesh]

...and with the acid upgrade, it owns most defenses too..

[Pendaelose]

I believe the unit youre on about is the Sturm S

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that indeed is the one. Thank you Namless, guest.

[Madin]

That unit is also the reason that 2 american generals can defeat even a level 5 toxin gen when they are at level 3. The laser gen can add laser point defence drones on most of their ground attack force. (2 drones will stop the missle).
The cyber gen can add the same drones to everything (even their pet dogs!) its probably the most pure form of ownage in contra.

[Pendaelose]

That unit is also the reason that 2 american generals can defeat even a level 5 toxin gen when they are at level 3. The laser gen can add laser point defence drones on most of their ground attack force. (2 drones will stop the missle).
The cyber gen can add the same drones to everything (even their pet dogs!) its probably the most pure form of ownage in contra.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But if you include just one or two missile buggies in the same group the LPD gets overwhelmed pretty quick and can't hit too many missiles

[Madin]

But if you include just one or two missile buggies in the same group the LPD gets overwhelmed pretty quick and can't hit too many missiles

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

25 laser defence drones do not get overwhelmed!
You'd have about 30 seconds to take them out, after that everything important would be toast.

[Pendaelose]

25 laser defence drones do not get overwhelmed!
You'd have about 30 seconds to take them out, after that everything important would be toast.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When the scale is upped like that the same truth still applies... If the enemy has 25 laser drones then GLA should have alot more units than that (GLA is alot cheaper and can buy a tank for the cost of that drone) 25 drones means about 25 USA tanks (plus power plants for other than Paladin) and that means about 40-60 GLA units... you can have 20 Sturm S and 20 Rocket buggies and you'll never give a care or a second thaught to those poor sad and very overwhelmed 25 laser drones.

Rocket buggies fir first and suck up all the laser defense and then the Sturm S kill the key tanks in the first volly.

Edited by Pendaelose, 30 December 2005 - 04:13 PM.

[Madin]

When the scale is upped like that the same truth still applies... If the enemy has 25 laser drones then GLA should have alot more units than that (GLA is alot cheaper and can buy a tank for the cost of that drone)  25 drones means about 25 USA tanks (plus power plants for other than Paladin) and that means about 40-60 GLA units...  you can have 20 Sturm S and 20 Rocket buggies and you'll never give a care or a second thaught to those poor sad and very overwhelmed 25 laser drones.

Rocket buggies fir first and suck up all the laser defense and then the Sturm S kill the key tanks in the first volly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paladins, laser point defence and pathfinders all dealing with missiles.
I refuse to believe that there are people who would not 'soften' up the base before a major attack (laser strike is what I would use). I'm not sure about your version, but in 004 The laser general is rock hard. The toxin general is not.
Good point about the rocket buggy, i'd fly any plane in and deal with them. Remember that the pathfinders will also be doing their bit by shooting at missiles has well.
Lets just say that the odds are heavily in favour of the laser general.
What am I talking about? 1 vs 1 against the laser general, the toxin general ain't ever going to reach level 3. Laser gen has one of the strongest ground attacks at level 1.

[Casojin]

I think we should improve toxin, not decapacitate laser. I think laser is going quite fine.

I agree with Madin about toxin gen. against laser or drone gen. The Storm S armor is quite light. It can be eliminated quickly before it could stop enemy tanks that have almost the same firing range. One or two shots from laser crusader would kill the Storm S while its missile damage only about 50% of the tank.

The point is that toxin gen. has to build a lot of compensation for his units in tank combat and I think it should be adjusted.

[Pendaelose]

I'm also talking about Contra, not Remix. Mostly Contra.03, but some play tim ein .04 also, but I just don't feel the same.

I hate laser general, always have and still do. Even in Remix get overhauled and he is still less than my favorite... but I do like Chem GLA, always have. It is not at all imposible to defend or attack with him in any senario. Cost is the largest factor I'm looking at. USA tanks can take GLA tanks 2 to 1, but with drones included the costs are disproportinate... you can field 3 GLA tanks or more for every USA tank with drones. they don't ALL have to use missiles. you can use as many of what ever your want. in large engagments lare acid fields are devistating (fired from luna) in single engagements the Sturm kills very quicly, even if weekly armored. Chem has BY FAR the best AA in the game. the silicone clouds kill large airstikes better than any other weapon anywhere. A well mixed force is a very devistaing thing. Combined arms shatters the performance of tanks alone, and Chem has a stong counter to every unit type to boot.

Laser does have a good early offensive, but its also expensive and power dependant. Chem is cheap and builds fast. Even his base is cheaper. In the end he has more money to invest in units that are already cheaper. Economics is a hard enemy to fight.

[Madin]

Nuke gen versus chemical gen?
Forget about it. I also like the chemical general. In 003 it was my favourite general.
Anyhow in the contra world its the race to reach level 3 that counts, and I don't see how the chemical general could reach level 3 before the laser general.
I don't think this should be adjusted has some generals have natural weaknesses against certain generals ("I ain't!" - nuke gen). Like for example the aircraft general vs everyone.

[Pendaelose]

I don't think this should be adjusted has some generals have natural weaknesses against certain generals ("I ain't!" - nuke gen). Like for example the aircraft general vs everyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this I have to agree with, but in some cases I think there does need to be adjustment... such as AirF and Nuke. I don't like gimping anyone, so I think all armies should be braught up to the level of nuke, but each should keep its inherint strngths and weaknesses. Overall end result is nuke recieves little change and remains a well rounded force. AirF gets a near complete overhaul. AirF should remain as specialized as before, but should be drasticly more effective in his specific area. It can be a tough challenge and takes several hours of play testing in PVP repeitedly as well as AI matches and compstomps. but in the end its the PVP that settles the worth.

btw, I LOVE airfirce general Even if he is near crippled in PVP (in the current Contra)

[M.E.C.H.]

I think we should improve toxin, not decapacitate laser

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats the line i keep....... This is what's needed

[Casojin]

btw, I LOVE airfirce general  Even if he is near crippled in PVP (in the current Contra)

I think we've seen enough evidents that Airforce Gen. needs improvement in early game. He can barely defend his base. The early planes are easily shot down. Perhaps you might remove the level 3 prerequisite for stealth Commanche (and don't forget to fix the rocket pods bug, this really cripples Airforce General). I think it would help a bit.

[M.E.C.H.]

I think we've seen enough evidents that Airforce Gen. needs improvement in early game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep thats true

[Gilgamesh]

I think chemical gen could have a super unit, even having it's defiler (cool thing). Something not too obvious, unlike a "super" toxin tractor with acids blablabla...
Let's think: what is the most hated thing when you play against him? To me, are that toxic fields that keep making my units die, and i can not do anything about it (i play most GLA). So if his super-unit was like a medium tank, withou cannon, but with a huge "chimney" (it that the english word?) and a good range. When told to attack, it waves like the flame tank, with a "fan" throwing the toxins expellend by the chimney... Hey, i'm serious! I like this idea! It's fun, weird, but cool... You could choose the toxin types too, maybe even sylicon too.

Edited by Gilgamesh, 04 January 2006 - 12:59 PM.

[Az3r^]

0_o

sounds good though ^

[M.E.C.H.]

Sounds good, but helpless when fighting against a tank... Maybe that could be its special attack..And its primary weapon could be an acid thrower

[alpha86]

IMO the chem gen is still pretty weak (talking basic unit here). Only when you start to get upgrades do they become much much stronger. The "superunit" being a building? it's a nice change, but its still pretty weak. For instance the nuke gen can build the nuke artillery... which isnt even their superunit and they can pwn the defiler thingys.

Maybe give make something like the luna have upgrades (buildable as well as from scavanger crates) like better armor or anti-rocket armor?

[M.E.C.H.]

He needs a fighting machine, not a defensive and not a whole map launcher, something that can fight with......
I suggest a tank that has one barrel, and 2 huge scorpion rockets from the back, with the cannon it can fire a deadly acid shell, and the 2 rockets can fired from long range at the enemy, and when they explode they pollute the ground with toxics, or acids