385 replies to this topic

[Pyth]

Crap...

At any rate, anarchism stil lDOESN'T WORK. With no police, peopel will just run rampant.

[Cossack]

This seems to be an endless cycle between kal and pyth.

[AOWR-Theoo Stratiotes]

It'll end eventually.

Isn't there a difference between anarchism and communism (little though it may be)?

[Pyth]

This seems to be an endless cycle between kal and pyth.

True.

[LeninT34]

well just about every one here has had a go at him

[Comrade Kal]

Pyth, make some new points, or attack the points I made to counter yours. Don't just repeat yourself.

[Pyth]

Pyth, make some new points, or attack the points I made to counter yours. Don't just repeat yourself.

What points? You've won the Italy and Germany part of this.

At any rate, I will start this up again.

1. Anarchism does not work.

2. With no police, people will not give a rats arse about anrchist law.

3. With no centraoised government, Hitler 2 is going to pop up and start a commune war.

4. If there's something to gain, people wil lfight.

5. Once we fragment, we will go primitive. Relgion riegns, and religion causes even more wars. (Looka t the Middle East.)

6. The EU doesn't have wars every week pecause people are content. (And as for 8, they still don't fight because larger nations can get what they want peacefully.

7. People will most likely not be content in their little communes.

8. People want more. THEY WILL FIGHT TO GET IT.

9. If I was to take a stable nation (like even Canada) and put it against communes, I am sure I would win.

10. With no concept of "property" or "money", someone will start using barter. The rich people will get cows instead of gold.

11. And don't say it's not theirs. People keep thier own crap. And there's no police to take it from them.

12. And due to difficulty woth barter, money is created.

[Tom]

2. With no police, people will not give a rats arse about anrchist law.

Anarchy doesn't mean there is no police. If a community has a police force to keep peace then it would work fine assuming everyone lived upto their responsibilities. The police also would not be tools of the government and elites but rather protectors of the people and defenders of the law. Today they are merely tools for the elites to get their work across under the illusion that they protect people. They merely manage the laws of that government and those whom run it.

[duke_Qa]

well it all depends though. its not like they walk from house to house and check if you are downloading pirated programs yet. although you cannot say that the music business is not trying to get people to do it.

you should start to worry if the police-civillian ratio starts to even out though.

[Cossack]

I honestly think you guys are paranoid. In my area at least, I have never even so much as spoken to a police officer, and I am as anti-elitest as the next guy.

[Pyth]

2. With no police, people will not give a rats arse about anrchist law.

Anarchy doesn't mean there is no police. If a community has a police force to keep peace then it would work fine assuming everyone lived upto their responsibilities. The police also would not be tools of the government and elites but rather protectors of the people and defenders of the law. Today they are merely tools for the elites to get their work across under the illusion that they protect people. They merely manage the laws of that government and those whom run it.

They'd become tools to elites. Someone would make a government,. But with anarchist police... No. They'd just serve their own purpose with nobody to order the mabout.

[Silent_Killa]

Anarchy only works when people are responsible. People are not responsible. Personally this is why I think leftist policies are the WORST way to utopian anarchy, causing people to become dependant on the state and then taking the state away? Yeah, that'll work out well. On the other hand through progressive libertarianism with a proper education system, you can slowly push society into personal responsibility. Steadily taking the power away from the government, and handing it to the people.

[C1E/\/\E/\/+]

Anarchism depends on the people. If the people all believed in anarchism/communism then any authority figure policing the people won't be corrupt. But then human nature kicks in, some of the police would want more power then they become corrupt. So anarchism won't work because not everyone would get brainwashed into believing in anarchism.

[Drewry]

The point is, you should not have to be brainwashed to believe in anarchism. Anarchism is supposed to be the most desired state of society to any human, wherein we are most free. Brainwashing people to believe in Anarchism would be counter productive, its not freedom if you do not choose it.

I believe that Good Anarchy, or pure communism, will naturally happen in the course of human events. However it will happen when we choose it, and not because of anything else. It will just happen. At some point, if the whole of humanity does not choose it, then such society would collapse; if not immidiatly, then a more prolonged certain doom.

Edited by Drewry, 04 July 2006 - 04:38 PM.

[DemonWolf]

Communism is an idealistic, flawed system. Its central flaw is in the fallacy that people want equality. The true, ugly nature of humanity is our relentless struggle for power, superiority, etc. We don't want to be equals, we want to be superior to others. This is an ugly truth I have discovered. I would like to imagine a system where everyone works for the common good, but it's only a heavly flawed idealistic government system that ends up causing more problems than it solves.

[Drewry]

Human Nature has and always will be countered by society. It is the social evolution that continually cages the human beast in all of us. We as humans are a liquid, we mold to the container we reside within. Humanity has and will continue to adapt to new 'social norms' as the evolution of our society progresses. I do not deny human nature, however the social contract will prevail over such in due time.

Remember, it was not too long ago we ate with our hands and slept in caves. We as humans have come a very long way. I think that if we can do as much as we have done thus far, then we can certainly live in peace and harmony - in the least - and care for something more than this insignificant speck in the universe we each call our lives. Nothing is too far away from possible, unless you believe it to be so.

Edited by Drewry, 05 July 2006 - 06:42 AM.

[Pyth]

I can ASSURE you that close t onoone uld work together as Communism requires.

[Comrade Kal]

Thanks for that, professor of psychology and human behaviour.

[Tom]

Anarchy only works when people are responsible. People are not responsible. Personally this is why I think leftist policies are the WORST way to utopian anarchy, causing people to become dependant on the state and then taking the state away? Yeah, that'll work out well. On the other hand through progressive libertarianism with a proper education system, you can slowly push society into personal responsibility. Steadily taking the power away from the government, and handing it to the people.

100% agreed but it still doesn't mean capitalism is either because capitalism also ignores responsibilities.

They'd become tools to elites. Someone would make a government,. But with anarchist police... No. They'd just serve their own purpose with nobody to order the mabout.

They already are tools of the elite. Your focusing too much on your conditioned view of "society." Centralised society wouldn't exist in anarchy, therefore neither would centralised police. Police would be members of the community living up to the responsibilities of the general law. In all likelihood their would be no law on pirating because everyone would work with everyone and there would be no competition.

I can ASSURE you that close t onoone uld work together as Communism requires.

Making a judgement so soon, we got WWIII prolly to get thought first. I'm sure when the world is half destroyed and people wake up from their shells they will begin to realise the truth about humanity rather than ignorant desires. Working together comes from disasters or people working for emotional healing or a job/target. Average people work together fine under capitalism in the average work place, i work in a supermarket, you have got to work together to get the job done, so Pyth that was a response i totally disagree with based on the assumption everyone is too irresponisible to take control in their lives. Continue to believe we need a government to take responisibility from us if you wish, but it will only lead down the same dark road it lead down in the 1920s and 1930s. History repeating itself. Why does history repeat itself, because we failed to learn from it and ignored it. Maybe after a third world war, which is becoming more possible and apparent each day, humanity will realise that its time to grow up and accept responsibility for our environment, our money, our wars and ourselves. Everyone would rather point the finger and hide because they are too frightened and too afraid of the truth. It would mean they'd have to open their minds and opening your mind is scary because it makes you realise anything is possible. People don't like doing that because it makes them feel insecure. Security is just an illusion created by minds to cover FEAR. And most of it comes from FEAR of DEATH. At that point in philosophy you start moving into spirituality which is just as important to humans as "politics."

[DemonWolf]

Thanks for that, professor of psychology and human behaviour.

I'm not the one spouting communistic propaganda, Kal. I'm speaking from a perfectly rational perspective, you're screaming from the lunatic fringe.