12 replies to this topic

[thursti]

you mean madril?

[-Glorfindel-]

good post

[Celeglin]

good post

Not quite.

You've missed the point in adding Gamling and Hama, Ton. They're not there to add to the Rohan faction, they're there to make up for the loss of Legolas. So no, I'm not adding Madril or Damrod or Beregond.

You're suggestions for Helm's Deep are interesting, but far too much work for just one campaign mission. Don't forget, this is the Elven Alliance.

However, thanks for your suggestions . Thanks for taking an interest.

Edited by Celeglin, 15 January 2006 - 03:08 PM.

[thursti]

whats karakter? Most people don't waste their spears by throwing them

[The Elven Prince]

There different sort off spears. And men throw spears look to the olympic games throwing spears is a sport

[Boy_suicide]

What I hate about spear throwing as primary attacks are that they never run out of spears. Sure, the trebuchets and arrows, but it just looks ubur wierd for one person to grab a spear out of nowhere constantly.

[Jsmooth13]

Technically however, No elves were at the Defense of Helms Deep. Peter Jackson just needed a way to explain how 10,000 formidable troops couldn't penetrated the Hornburg agains a horribly prepared defense.

[arz]

it worked though. Loads of people prefere the elves at helms to no elves at helms

[Jsmooth13]

I guess...I just don't like how they decided to kill someone who wasn't even there in the first place. Esspecially how he was a commanding elf (a commander.)

[Celeglin]

Peter Jackson just needed a way to explain how 10,000 formidable troops couldn't penetrated the Hornburg agains a horribly prepared defense.

No, that is not why Peter Jackson put the Elves in Helm's Deep. Let me quote myself:

No, you're wrong. PJ's intent (straight from the horse's mouth) was to continue the development of the theme of death. In the novels, the Elves were used to highlight the power of death, mainly because they couldn't die. We see this most predominantly through Arwen, who gives up her yadada (you know the story). Furthermore, the story ends with (how I see it) the metaphorical death of Elrond and Galadriel. If we move further back in the history of Middle-Earth, it is usually the death of Elves that is given the greater potency (Luthien (her choice of mortality is highlighted, rather than the death of Beren), Thingol (his death was enough to spark age-long hate between Elves and Dwarves), and Beleg (symbolises that Men are the source of the Elven downfall [and, in turn, the loss of the past]) are a few of the major ones).

As death was one of the most powerful themes running through the course of these novels, the film makers wanted to flush this out onto the big screen (in case some of you hadn't noticed, the films are and were meant to be a representation of the themes of LotR, more so than the exact story). One of the most obvious places where this was done is the emphasis placed on Arwen's story: as she embodies the theme itself, this was a no brainer. The next instance is much more subtle and comes just after the Fellowship escapes Moria: everyone in the Fellowship looks incredibly sad and crestfallen, but look at Legolas. If anything, Legolas looks confused, showing that he does not fully understand death (though we know Legolas has seen death as Elves were killed in the rescue of Gollum in Mirkwood, the fact that this could not be shown on film negates it (once again, putting theme higher than tiny details)).

Finally, we come to Haldir. In the film, his thematic role is that of a "mini-Arwen". Those who have not read the books may not have totally understood the severe consequences of Arwen's decision; the consequence for Haldir, immediate death, is (of course) evident. As Haldir has had little screentime and character development - what little development he has had, as can be seen earlier in this thread, makes him seem rather stuck up and unlikeable - up until his death, it would be ridiculous for the film makers to assume that the audience would feel loss when the character dies. However, coupled with the thematic detail covered earlier as well as the images of the dead Elves, it is here where the theme of death in the films hits it's climax (sure, you have the deaths of Denethor and Theoden to come, but they represent other themes (not going into those right now... I've gone off topic too many times as is)). It's not that Haldir dies because he was distracted by Aragorn that makes his death memorable, it's the theme. If at this point the viewer hasn't picked up on it, said viewer needs to look a little deeper than the plot.

That all focuses on Haldir, but it applies to all the Elves at Helm's Deep.

Edited by Celeglin, 19 February 2006 - 10:06 PM.

[Jsmooth13]

I understand what you are saying, I just think it was stretching it a bit. Oh well. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion I guess.