110 replies to this topic

[ArkhanTheBlack]

This should be the last beta and if there are no severe problems like a CTD, it will be hard to convince me otherwise.

Fixes:

- Thuds Commissar fix although this wasn't the actual cause of the problem. The attachments require a 'worthy' squad, and since the AI's restrict reinforcing to build more vehicles, the commisars probably had only inferior squads available. Anyway, it's not that important...

- Reduced ressource requirements for cap increase

- Included Larkins entanglement fix

- Included Larkins cultist/melee fix

The melee switch table is a good approach, but there would be also a check needed to ensure that the squad doesn't have heavy weapon upgrades. A marine squad with 5 heavy bolters shouldn't switch to melee.
The vyper upgrade also needs more checks in my opinion. It isn’t necessary that more than half of the opponents army consists of vehicles since one single dreadnought is enough to level a base. I'd like to improve those approaches, but at the moment I have to learn for my exams, therefore I want to delay those changes to a later point.

I've also tried to increase the early AI behaviour to fight for specific points 1-2 weeks ago, but after I got pretty much 15 CTD's in row only because I demanded the tactic of a squad (which worked everywhere else!), I got severly pissed off, and decided to wait until I don't hate this code part anymore .

Nevertheless, the AI plays mostly very smooth now. Orks will probably improve in the next Relic patch, therefore I don't see this point so critical. All things considered, I'm quiet satisfied with the AI. It's not perfect, but it's far beyond 1.6.

[LarkinVB]

Very good, Arkhan. I love your core/race framework and will add this AI to DoWpro with lots of credits for your excellent job.

The melee switch table is a good approach, but there would be also a check needed to ensure that the squad doesn't have heavy weapon upgrades. A marine squad with 5 heavy bolters shouldn't switch to melee.

It won't as the code checks for self.squad_ai:HasSetupTime()

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Thanks, I hope it makes the handling with the AI easier and facilitates the fusion of different mods.

It won't as the code checks for self.squad_ai:HasSetupTime()

Oops, overlooked this one! But grenade launchers, plasma and flamers are still problematic since they don't have a setup time?! Anyway, it's on my todo list for 1.8...

[ThetaOrion]

I've also tried to increase the early AI behaviour to fight for specific points 1-2 weeks ago, but after I got pretty much 15 CTD's in row only because I demanded the tactic of a squad (which worked everywhere else!), I got severly pissed off, and decided to wait until I don't hate this code part anymore.

Orks will probably improve in the next Relic patch, therefore I don't see this point so critical.

1) Hopefully, Thudo will get Relic's ear and get some more debugged and detailed specific AI code that will help you guys to program the AI to recap contested and decapped resource points. A longer term goal.

2) And, I hope that Thudo will follow through on his threat or promise to look into the Orks and try to make them more aggressive for the 1.70 release, before the 1.70 final release. Too bad Thudo can't throw in a balance tweak or two for the Orks to bring them more up to speed, maybe make the Killa Kans move twice as fast or some such, or give the Orks stronger Tank Bustas or larger TankBusta squads, something to give the Orks more teeth in Tier 2 or thereabouts -- something to tide us over until the Relic 1.50 patch comes out. You guys are going to have to rethink things a bit after the 1.50 patch comes out anyway, though you guys didn't have to change much in 1.51 AI Mod after the 1.41 Patch came out.

3) I'd somehow like to see less Tier 4 Ork turtling. The Beta 7 Orks are acceptable, though continously losing, until they get to the very end of the game, where they turtle up and hide.

4) I still need to see if the Raptors and ASM AI enemies are flying again on the Castle Assault Map.

Edited by ThetaOrion, 08 February 2006 - 10:34 PM.

[Zenoth]

4) I still need to see if the Raptors and ASM AI enemies are flying again on the Castle Assault Map.

Just tested, and it works properly in Castle Assault.

The Gate was not destroyed when I took the picture.

Also, I saw a group of ASM do it against an assaulting group of Cultists that was attacking the same gate. But that ASM group was one of my Allies.

As far as enemy Raptors goes, they indeed fly.

And that was Beta 7, at Hard.

[ThetaOrion]

Ah, Zenoth was doing the test while I was doing the test:

http://forums.revora...ndpost&p=249061

Yep, both the Raptors and the Assault Space Marines are flying again and getting in the castle before the gates go down.

Good news!!


--
||
--

SECOND MESSAGE:

2) And, I hope that Thudo will follow through on his threat or promise to look into the Orks and try to make them more aggressive for the 1.70 release, before the 1.70 final release. Too bad Thudo can't throw in a balance tweak or two for the Orks to bring them more up to speed, maybe make the Killa Kans move twice as fast or some such, or give the Orks stronger Tank Bustas or larger TankBusta squads, something to give the Orks more teeth in Tier 2 or thereabouts -- something to tide us over until the Relic 1.50 patch comes out.

3) I'd somehow like to see less Tier 4 Ork turtling. The Beta 7 Orks are acceptable, though continously losing, until they get to the very end of the game, where they turtle up and hide.

--

It's 2 and 3 now, that I'm hoping Thudo will look at before calling it finished.

Also need to try more maps and different scenarios.

And again, I don't care as much if the Ork AI enemies are pushovers -- more wins for me. It's the Ork AI allies that are disappointing me. Maybe just making the Orks group together and attack as a group and/or making them more aggressive will give them what they need, or maybe if you can't get their Kans moving faster or make their Tank Busta squads tougher to kill.

Edited by ThetaOrion, 09 February 2006 - 01:02 AM.

[ThetaOrion]

Has anybody tried Rayden's Artefact 1.0 Map to make sure that the Deamon is still working in Beta 8?

[Zenoth]

Theta, can you provide a link for version 1.0 ?

My Artefact seems to be 0.9.

And the version available at FileFront also is 0.9, unless I missed something ?

Thanks.

Edited by Zenoth, 09 February 2006 - 03:04 AM.

[ThetaOrion]

The Artefact 1.0 Thread:

http://forums.relicn...ead.php?t=73125

--

I believe that has the link to the most recent version, which is:

http://dawnofwar.fil.../Artefact;49537

[Zenoth]

Ok thanks, I got it now.

I'll give it a try tonight.

[LarkinVB]

Too bad Thudo can't throw in a balance tweak or two for the Orks to bring them more up to speed, maybe make the Killa Kans move twice as fast or some such, or give the Orks stronger Tank Bustas or larger TankBusta squads, something to give the Orks more teeth in Tier 2 or thereabouts -- something to tide us over until the Relic 1.50 patch comes out.

Why don't you play DoWpro ?

[ThetaOrion]

Well, like I and Thudo and you said awhile ago in the DoWPro thread on this forum, the DoWPro isn't working or balanced for the IG yet.

Has version 2.0 of DowPro with the IG working come out already?

If not, I was kind of holding out for 2.0 of DoWPro, before getting involved.

[LarkinVB]

Just a quick suggestion on how to improve early game. Usually the AI has 2-3 cappers and is building up an attack force. This often results in cappers retreating while the commander units idle at their base as they haven't reached attack strength yet. I just added code to attack immediatly during the first 4 minutes with fighting cappers as attack position. This can help securing some points and is no big deal codewise.

[thudo]

Thanks Larkin! Yes that does sound quite useful considering early game is critical and can largely determine overall outcomes.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

It was good that Thud didn't upload the beta 8 so soon. I've found and fixed some stuff...

- My failed early game improvement bothered me. Therefore I've used a message connection from the captureplan through the cpu_manager to the defendchokepointplan to let the captureplans demand support from the defendchokepointplan. The 4 minutes restriction was a good idea which I added immediately to avoid strange behaviours after the early game.

- Idle units attack now more reliable distant units, if they don't have a direct target around the attack position.

- Attack capturing is now aborted if the strat point is neutral and the capturing squad is too important for the attack forces.

- Guard mars pattern had a wrong (too low) cost which was probably responsible for the late bane blade

Well, but those are really, REALLY the last changes!!! (Hopefully )

[LarkinVB]

Another not so important suggestion for v1.8.

Sometimes the AI under attack has parts of it's base destroyed before the enemy retreats. Instead of defending the base while being rebuilt the AI may wander off, attack elsewhere. I added code that AI will stay in defend mode defend until the base is rebuild.

Code example for damaged base :

function MarineBuildBaseStrategy:IsBaseDamaged()

   if self:HasBuilding( self.hq_building_name ) < 1 or
		  self:HasBuilding( self.barracks_name  ) < 1 or
		  (self.tierLevel > 1 and self:HasBuilding( self.armoury_name 
) < 1) or 
		  (self.tierLevel > 2 and self:HasBuilding( self.vehicle_build
ing_name ) < 1) or 
		  (self.tierLevel > 2 and self:HasBuilding( self.artifact_name
 ) < 1) then 
		  
		  return true
   end

   return false
end

Edited by LarkinVB, 10 February 2006 - 02:13 PM.

[Malkor]

That's pretty cool Larkin. Gives the AI a better chance of surviving losing its main. In Starcraft, the comps can have 10 expansions, lose their mains, then just break entirely. So very, very annoying.

[Finaldeath]

Good stuff, looks like a worthwhile wait till beta 8

[thudo]

Fabulous Larkin.. however, there is more code for that I gather? IsBaseDamaged() is being called elsewhere I take it.

However.. yes thats a big deal: the AI tends to NOT entirely protect its main assets when going on the offensive. It takes too long to go back and fend off invaders. This would be a BIG deal if it were tweaked.

[LarkinVB]

Just treat IsBaseDamaged() equal to IsBaseBeingAttacked() in buildbasestrategy.ai/defendstrategy.ai/attackstrategy.ai with the start position as defend postition.