24 replies to this topic

[Pendaelose]

There is a hard coded limit of a max 128 upgrdes in ZeroHour. As of .04 Contra is extreamly close to that limit, and Remix3 has blown way over it by recycling other upgrades of the same cost for other tasks. Recycling upgrades works great for unit specific upgrades, but army wide upgrades like armor upgrades, need cameos and don't work as well with over lapping upgrades.

In the short term there is only one viable solution... remove unnessecary upgrades.


If Capture building was no longer an upgrade, and was instead a default ability it would save a very valuable upgrade slot that could be used on any number of other abilities. It also just kinda makes sense. every faction can research it, every player needs it, needs it in the early game, its cheap, and its a natural/inate ability of infantry in real life... Often its even the whole point of using infantry in real life.

Blcak napalm might be an option. Flame general starts with it, so it isn't needed there... and Tank is the only other general (I think) that can research it. If Tank doesn't need the BN upgrade then it can be used to save an upgrade slot.

What other abilities could be cut to make room for new upgrades/powers/weapons that wouldn't negativly effect the game?

[Logical2u]

Tank is getting Tesla/Lightning Tanks, correct?

Just drop Black Napalm for them all. Let Tank's teslas do the work for the flamers.

And Capture Building IS redundant, maybe drop it too.

[Pendaelose]

Tank is getting Tesla/Lightning Tanks, correct?

Just drop Black Napalm for them all. Let Tank's teslas do the work for the flamers.

And Capture Building IS redundant, maybe drop it too.

The lightning tanks/weapons require general's points to build, so there is still a need for the flame tank, but just because the flame tank exsists doesn't mean he needs an upgrade for it. Still, thats a double afirmaive for drop Black Napalm, and capture building.

Does anybody have aditional ideas for redundant or un-nessacary upgrades that can be replaced?

Laser general's anti-infantry laser upgrade could be replaced with a unit-by-unit Anti-infantry addon type upgrade that used the gattling gun for cost and time. this would free up the slot without removing the ability.

[Invalid]

-I would removeall the upgrades that were in regular zerohour, and make them default, like autoacnnons are automaticly instaled into warmaster (or what ever the new battle master will be called)
-also, the nationalism upgrade should be default. really, it's the last upgrade i purchase, and doesn't do much (for me anyway)
-just thinking, you could remove the first upgrade for the internet center, so as soon as it's built, you can see the other person's command post.
-counter measures could be default. (just to make the US airforce more awsomer)
-make TOW missle for humvee default (who really uses them without their rockets?)
-for the demolitions general, I don't know if this has already been done, but the ability for all units to self destruct on command should be dafault
-MIG armor default (way too crapy armor)
-also, for the stealth general, you should add an upgrade that just makes all buildings camo. (available from very begining at command center)
-thirded on the capture building upgrade
-make defencive systems on US buildings default (just for simplicity)
-chain gun upgrade default (it's like, the first thing anyone buys. china's defencive structures suck enough as it is)

yeah, that's all I can think of that could be taken out. hope it helps

[wolfshadow]

I concur with alot of Invalids points.

For China MiG Armour and Chaingun could def. go.

I don't play a lot o fGLA, so I can't comment too much on that...

Humvee TOW upgrade could easily dissappear, and I wouldn't care... Mebbe slightly raise base cost to compensate, or incorperate into building... Could upgrades be coded to happen when a tech level advances, or a building is purchased, and not take up slots?

[Gilgamesh]

Well, i play most GLA, so:
- "Chemical" (not toxic anymore) has too many upgrades!! Some of it should come with the units and some could be united. Like the one who makes toxin more strong and the other who makes acid stronger. Theres one for toxin-tipped rockets too...

The rest dont have too many upgrades, so...

Pendaelose, i was messing with the code last week (to make a new hability for demo: heavy minning), and saw that are Sciences AND upgrades. There is a limit of sciences in the engine? If not, you could transfer some upgrades to sciences....

[Pendaelose]

could transfer some upgrades to sciences....

Sciences can be used to enable buttons and units, but they cannot be purchaes in the same fasion as an upgrade. Sciences can only be granted by General's point purchse OR be triggered by an upgrade.



So, yes/no buildings could have several science purchases tied to exsisting upgrades, But the limit would be to unlocking tanks and abilities. This would really only be usefull if certain armies had to research tanks indevidualy... I might do this, but its not an alternative to the main upgrade list.

[Hydra]

one type of mines for bulidings

[Pendaelose]

one type of mines for bulidings

All the differnt types of minefields plus the upgraded mine fields still only costs 2 upgrades for all of them... and when considering theres quite a few generals who can build aditional mines its not that big a deal to keep.

[ShadowofaDoubt]

I think the [Insert]-proof armor upgrades should go. That will make things a tad easier and besides, nobody is gunna use that type of weapon on you anyway. You'll just outclass them.

[Hydra]

you could have the nutron shells combined with uranimim shells in the nuke silo

edit: now that I think of it it dont sound that great

Edited by Hydra, 11 March 2006 - 02:45 AM.

[Pendaelose]

you could have the nutron shells combined with uranimim shells in the nuke silo

edit: now that I think of it it dont sound that great

yeah.. I'd not combine that pair... but it does bring up the point that I've removed neutron weapons from Nuke General (to balance him) and neutron weapons are an Infantry General only thing. I might combine the NukeAmmo upgrade and the Neutron Ammo upgrade... but it would have different functions for each general.

[Gredinus]

You could call it Specialized ammonition and it would have diffrent affects for every general.

[Pendaelose]

You could call it Specialized ammonition and it would have diffrent affects for every general.

The only catch being the nukeammo upgrade is very expensive. most weapon upgrades only cost about 2000

[Guy980]

How bout making the nuclear upgrades one upgrade, Nuclear units?

[Logical2u]

Give Toxin General toxin tipped shells from the start, and make the Acid Warheads start as the white stuff...
Change the upgrade system for Tank general from Power Repair, Buy Repair 2, Buy Repair 3, and just set it as Buy Repair 3 at level 3 since that's the normal system. Increase the price tho.
Chuck the laser guided missile upgrade and just increase damage by 15%.
Get rid of the chain gun upgrade for all Chinese generals and set the innate ROF as 10% faster than average.

I concur with the TOW missile suggestion earlier on.
Combine EMP shells and Emitter Shells for Alexander and set the name to "Unconventionel (I just butchered the english language!) Weapons Research"

Just start the nuke general with Radiation Shells. Flame general doesn't have to upgrade his shells, why should nuke?

Could you set an innate 50% resistance for each unit of a specific faction against their specialty, rather than a 90% upgrade?

Like, all Toxin units are more resistant to Toxins and acids.

Anyways, that's all.

-logical2u

Edited by Logical2u, 12 March 2006 - 03:56 PM.

[oops2005]

Agreed with logical2u.

Besides, I suggest:

Maybe can make "chain gun" and "subconscious message" only for Tank and Infantry Gen.

And for Inf Gen the upgrade for light tank in war factory can be removed, make it has been upgraded in the start.

Make "advanced training" for Air and Laser Gen. And "MOAB" become a 5 star Gen's power for Air and remove it from other three Gen.

Make Air Gen's commanche stealth in the start, it will be more useful in early game. And make laser guided missile only for him.

Make an upgrade " Advanced Building Method" for SW Gen. It makes her buildings be fortified and resistant to Particle Cannon.

"AP rocket missile" only for Assault and Stealth. Chemical has toxin missile and Demo has HE missile in the start.
And "AP bullet" only for Assault and Stealth too.

Stealth Gen's buildings can be camouflaged in the start.
Demo Gen's units can be detonated manually in the start.
Chemical Gen's bomb truck and terrorist can select toxin or acid payload in the start.

Edited by oops2005, 12 March 2006 - 10:50 AM.

[Pendaelose]

Besides, I suggest:

making an upgrade only affect one general doesn't reduce the upgrade count. weather 1 or all 12 can research it it still count's as 1 upgrade in the code

[oops2005]

Oh, so be it.
Then maybe you can think about removing the " commonplace upgrade"
for each faction.
Like USA's supply line, advanced training,
CHINA's chain gun, subconscious message,
GLA's AP bullet, AP rocket

[Logical2u]

Just set AP bullet and AP rocket as one upgrade: AP Weapons.

And set the Propaganda upgrade as default, so you can just remove it.

Dump supply line and just set the gathers at 5% faster than usual once Strategy Center is built.

Advanced training shouldn't be cut.

Agreed with Inf Gen Tank upgrade.

Don't allow SW to get Fortified Buildings, that's a GLA thing.

Is it possible to get rid of the Suicide Upgrade, since it sometimes carries over between generals?
Could you then just set all Demo Troops with two Attack modes: Standard and Suicide, like the Cockroach?

Get rid of Missile Pods upgrade and set it standard, it usually doesn't work anyways. Besides, without missiles Commances are useless (For the most part).

Instead of Defensive systems, give USA buildings the ability to garrison one infantry. I'm pretty sure there's room, but I don't know how the organization of building buttons works. This will also make them more useful but less effective in groups (Yay!)

Drop nuke bullets for Red Guard, they shouldn't be that effective versus tanks, that is what Nuke Crushers are for.

Is it possible to set Sniper Special Abilities (like disabling vehicles, or hurting vehicles) as automatically unlocked at Level 4 on the Point Tree?

SuperPowerful Disturbances should be a default for all ECM tanks, but the warmup time for disabling should be twice as long.

Set Concentrates for Chemical as default when the Upgraded Chemicals are researched.

Amalgamate(sp?) Advanced Acids and Advances Toxins as one upgrade: Upgraded Chemicals.

Set inflammable Chemicals as a default upgrade, but make it occur much less often. (only occurs when a unit attempts to clean or repair in the area, and not when two damage zones are mixed, for example Flame and Acid, or Acid and Chemical)

I can't think of anything else to say for upgrade cutting.