10 replies to this topic

[khamul]

hey gothmog this might be in the rest of the forums somewhere but do you know that in the book ROTK they never say if gothmog is an orc or a ring wraith of some other being. they just guess hes an orc for the movie. you might not have known that but incase you didnt there it is.


ps khamul is the coolest ring wraith.

Edited by khamul, 13 March 2006 - 10:39 PM.

[Conor]

hey gothmog this might be in the rest of the forums somewhere but do you know that in the book ROTK they never say if gothmog is an orc or a ring wraith of some other being. they just guess hes an orc for the movie. you might not have known that but incase you didnt there it is.


ps khamul is the coolest ring wraith.

Accually...


the book does say gothmog is a goblin orc thingy and he is not a nazgul.

khamul is not a ringwraith and he was a made-up character by gothmogtheorc (the creater of the mod, not the orc from the movie) to be a leader for the soldiers of rhun.

think before you post

Edited by Conor, 14 March 2006 - 02:45 AM.

[Lord Of Gifts]

Conor, you should think before you post.
Gothmog is only mentioned as the lieutenant of Morgul in the book. Race is not specified. For all we know, he could be a Nazgûl. Peter Jackson simply assumed he was a orc.
Khamûl is a Ringwraith. GothmogtheOrc simply needed a name, and he chose Khamûl.

[Conor]

Conor, you should think before you post.
Gothmog is only mentioned as the lieutenant of Morgul in the book. Race is not specified. For all we know, he could be a Nazgûl. Peter Jackson simply assumed he was a orc.
Khamûl is a Ringwraith. GothmogtheOrc simply needed a name, and he chose Khamûl.

it accually does specify the races of gothmog and everyone else in different books and manuscripts and so forth, put the peices toghether and you find out what everything is. your like peter jackson and the rest of the people with the movies who only read the official books.

The different books and versions have different ideas, while the movies screwed up everything, so the people who never heard of LOTR before the movies get a different idea of the books and doesnt know what really happened.


This subject is to stupid to continue fighting over.

[Boy_suicide]

Quotes?.......
I remember reading and Gothmog's race was unidentified.
Conor, you are also wrong about another thing:
Nazgûl
Khamûl

Khamul in the New Line film
Khamul the Easterling - movie
Second-in-command of the Nazgul. Khamul is the only one of the Nazgul whose original name is known. He was once an Easterling - a Man from the far eastern lands of Middle-earth. Khamul was given one of the Nine Rings by Sauron and he was enslaved to Sauron's will and became one of the wraiths known as the Nazgul. The Nine first appeared as Nazgul around the year 2251 of the Second Age.

Khamul was one of the most powerful Nazgul, second only to the Lord of the Nazgul. He was readily able to sense the presence of the One Ring, although in daylight he became confused and diminished.

In the year 2951 of the Third Age, Sauron sent Khamul as his lieutenant to command the stronghold of Dol Guldur in Mirkwood. One or two of the other Nazgul were sent with Khamul.

In March of 3018, Aragorn brought Gollum to Mirkwood to be held captive by the Elvenking Thranduil. Khamul's spies later learned of this and Khamul sent word to Sauron around late April. On June 20, Orcs from Dol Guldur attacked the Elves. Gollum escaped from captivity, but he managed to elude the Orcs as well.

That same day, the Lord of the Nazgul began the hunt for the One Ring and the land of the Hobbits known as the Shire. On July 22, Khamul met the Lord of the Nazgul in the Field of Celebrant. Khamul reported Gollum's escape and said that there were no Hobbits living in the Vales of the Anduin. The Nazgul continued to Isengard and were directed north to Eriador.

On September 22, Khamul and three other Nazgul entered the Shire. Khamul went to Hobbiton seeking someone by the name of Baggins. He spoke to Gaffer Gamgee, who pointed him in the direction of Buckland. Khamul pursued Frodo Baggins and his companions down the Stock Road to the Woody End on September 24 and nearly caught them several times. On the second occasion, Khamul fled when he heard the singing of Elves led by Gildor Inglorion.

Khamul continued his pursuit the next day - September 25 - and the Hobbits saw him on a ridge high above them and later heard his cry as he summoned another Nazgul. Khamul then went to Bamfurlong, the home of Farmer Maggot and offered the farmer gold in exchange for news of Baggins, but Maggot refused. That evening Khamul saw the Hobbits crossing the Brandywine River using the Bucklebury Ferry, but he was unable to pursue them across the deep moving water.

Nothing further is known about Khamul's individual actions during the War of the Ring. After the unsuccessful attack on Crickhollow, the Nazgul left the Shire and rejoined the others. They pursued Frodo to Weathertop and on to the Ford of Bruinen, where they were washed away in a flood created by Elrond on October 20. They returned to Mordor and assumed new forms and were mounted on flying steeds called Fell Beasts. The Nazgul took part in the siege of Minas Tirith and the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, where the Lord of the Nazgul perished on March 15, 3019. Khamul most likely became the leader of the Nazgul at that time.

At the Battle of the Morannon on March 25, the Nazgul flew above the battlefield. When Frodo claimed the Ring at Mount Doom, Sauron summoned the Nazgul to seize him. They raced to the mountain, but Gollum fell into the Cracks of Doom with the Ring. Mount Doom erupted and the Nazgul were engulfed in flames and were destroyed.

Other Names:
Also called the Shadow of the East, the Black Easterling, and the Second Chief. He is commonly referred to as Khamul the Easterling.

Sources:
The Fellowship of the Ring: "Three is Company," p. 78-79, 84-85, 87-88; "A Short Cut to Mushrooms," p. 98-100, 102; "A Consipiracy Unmasked," p. 109
Unfinished Tales: "The Hunt for the Ring," p. 338-39, 344, 348, 352-53 note 1

Edited by Boy_suicide, 16 March 2006 - 02:28 AM.

[Jsmooth13]

Yup. What he says is ture.

The only thing we know about Gothmog is that he was the Lieutenant of Morgul, second in command to the Witch King (though, I do specualte if he was third in command, that is after the Witch King and Kahmul since Kahmul is specifically pointed out as the second in command of the Nazgul.)

[thursti]

i dont think khamul is on top of gothmog. I think like its two different branches, khamul and the nazgul and gothmog and the orcs not like a blended branch

[zimoo]

Yeah it would be highly doubtful that orcs would get control over all of Saurons armies, especially if Nazgul were present at that battle. I think Gothmog was a Nazgul/Black Numenorian

[Lauri]

well, I think that Gothmogs an orc. From the very beginnig I heard the name, it sounded orcish.
And I don't think that Gothmogs an ordinary orc. He's a though one, I belive that he'd had a though life before he got that rank. And besides, he's smart. Maybe he's been a Nazgul's second commander. Anyways, I'd personally like that he were able to fight atleast

[Expert of Orcs]

Huh, {Newbie first post} Well, being an expert on Orcs. It has come to my attention that there is some dispute as to Gothmog's Orcishness. I cannot say that Gothmog Is, or Is'nt an Orc. But nobody else can say he is anything else either because he is not given a race. It is quite possible that he was an Orc. First of all, we must take into account his name. It seems to be two words. Goth-Mog, very ritualistic to Orcs and Goblins in that sense however Uruks, the ones that have names anyway, seem to prefer small imposing names. Now, there remains another means to support this theory. It is possible that he was an Orc, because Orcs have three levels.

Females, inbreeds, and half breeds. These peoples are practically slaves. There are few half or inbreeds. Because Half Breeds, that are practicaly mutants, are quickly cannibalised. And to privately breed elves, dwarves, or men to aid an Orc tribe is fairly rare although Sauron supports it because over all it makes his hordes stronger.

Grunts. These are the mass swarms of Orcs we are familiar with. Normally aged from 7 to 15 years old. This happens because it is averaged that most Orcs don't make it past their 16th birthday. They are the most vital part of Sauron's armies.

And finally, there are the old ones. Possibly even up to around their late 40's, Orcs that are strong enough to survive, or are half breeds that kept some intellectual traits from a man or an Elf. Old Orcs are highly, highly respected. An Orc that has lived so long is obviously a gifted one. After your 16th birthday you can't help but get full of yourself if you're an Orc. So living up to the age of 20, can get you a hefty promotion to chieftain or warchief. It is known that Sauron has actually let certain Chieftains or Shaman see his vast castle and gaze into him upclose to adress him directly. This is a great honour.

So I submit to you, that Gorbag survived his 16th birthday one way or another. 40, is the oldest recorded Orc life. So it is not so fantastic to dream of a very smart and cuning Orc making his way up the ranks. Sauron has the upmost respect for certain Orcs, he can almost se them as worthy of speaking with him, although a discussion with an Orc is not recorded, or known of. It is somewhat established that Gorbag takes his orders from the Witch King. The Witch King also seems to make remarks that Glorify him, "This is My hour" and such. So Gorbag would probably be best described as the feild commander of the Orcs of Minus Morgul. The rank that might ictate a Hordemaster, which is a term not used by Tolkien, but seems to describe his role. Such a feild commander position is not a rank out of the grasp of a very talented Orc. It is possible that Gorbag simply took over in the absence of the Witch King. And when he returned Gorbag assumed the role of commander. However, this is only a theory. And as there is noone left to write anymore LOTR books, we'll leave it at that.

Sincerely.
Orc Expert