16 replies to this topic

[thudo]

The synopsis:
Think Starcraft's Protoss (builder lays down a marker to which building is slowly "warped in") meets Command and Conquer "HQ-builds-and-lays-buildings-down" format.

The scenario:
1) Builder units can only LAY down what we will call "Markers" anywhere on the map. These builders also can capture strats, builds LPs on them and also lay mines - this part is no biggie. Builders CANNOT build any major buildings.
2) Once Marker is set down (as mentioned, it can be set anywhere), the HQ is allowed to build regular buildings BUT each building is treated as a spawnable unit for deepstriking so...
3) HQ builds the buildings as a unit (HQ can only build ONE building at a time (like in Command and Conquer) then once the building is finished, you deepstrike it as a unit, to the marker which was set down by the builder.
4) Once building is built at the marker THEN it becomes a regular building that builds units/addons/researches normally.

Now.. does this sound remotely possible? I would say everything is since the buildings treated as units will be in the unitstats.ai, buildings are units at the HQ and thus can deepstrike (although the script would have to be changed so such buildings would ONLY deepstrike not for military reasons but the same way our deepstriking engineers work) but the problem I see is how to tell the HQ to deepstrike the buildings (treated as units) to the markers being placed down. Another problem.. how to tell the builders WHERE to place markers? Using Arkhan's buildprogram one could script a sequence of marker placements like the way we build, say, Generators.

Does all this sound wacked out or very much doable? The only challenge is telling the AI to deepstrike the HQ buildings (treated as units) to the marker points when asked.

I'll drum up a set of scripts to determine feasibility.. Nevertheless.. this all sound plausible?

[LarkinVB]

According to my limited knowledge you can only deepstrike squad entities, no building entities. So the answer is : no.

Edited by LarkinVB, 24 March 2006 - 01:59 PM.

[thudo]

They are squad entities, not building ones. Thats the trick and was coded by Shin who is currently evolving SCAR to new heights. He understands that buildings create squads, not fellow buildings. In the HQ, the "buildings" are spawnable entities (regular units) that transform back to buildings when deepstriked. Still sound doeable?

[LarkinVB]

No idea, I didn't understand a single word. If Shin can transform buildings to units he certainly can deepstrike them anywhere he wants to.

Edited by LarkinVB, 24 March 2006 - 02:04 PM.

[thudo]

Its getting the AI to do that to which is the fun part. I get a feeling the deepstriking engineer code will be used this way as well. Isolate the HQ to apply specific deepstriking code to it only (so it doesn't affect other buildings) then ensure that the units being built at this HQ are allowed only to deepstrike to available marker points laid down by the builders. Should be possible.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Which mod had this idea? It sounds quiet interesting, but it will definitely rape the core code a bit. If it's going really well, then a complete rework of BuildBuildingPlan.ai could be enough. Not sure...

[thudo]

Its a new build of Harlequins. I don't think this should impact the core AI should it? In any case, this is all theoretical and a side project since its a massive departure from traditional "builder builds buildings".

[Finaldeath]

He's using SCAR?

By the emporer! By our lord the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Don't get the AI to do anything more, trust me.

SCAR? Are you sure?

Thats bad man...real bad.

Buildings and Units are seperated for a reason, there is no good way to change them between each other.

[thudo]

If it works... why not give it a shot? As long as it doesn't break anything.

The one thing is: when the Harley Mod is run it causes the AI to NOT capture points UNLESS the player captures then builds its first LP. Bloody wierd. Once the player captures and builds its first LP, once thate LP is just created, then the AI gets "pis*ed" and starts doing everything it should. Strange eh? Have to chat with Shin on that one. His \ebps\troops folder doesn't properly catalogue the rgds properly so I'm assuming there is something odd going on in there.

However, it does work without upsetting the rest of the game. Maybe its NOT scar.. its all done through the rgds he has in \attrib. He has, however, coded alot of high-level SCAR stuff though for other secret projects.

[Finaldeath]

SCAR should never be used for race-based stuff. It would just not work well, and is too unreliable :(

If he uses RGD's, thats cool. If he has campaigns and multiplayer maps using SCAR, thats fine too.

How he'd hook in SCAR in the first place I have no idea either

[thudo]

Okie update..

Essentially, the basic scripts are in. Here is the important info you need to know:

Builder unit "harlequin_squad_mime" builds a building called: "harlequin_webway_marker"

Once its placed down, the HQ opens up the following "spawnables" for construction (treated as units):

harlequin_squad_building_troupe_portal
harlequin_squad_building_armoury
harlequin_squad_building_masque_portal
harlequin_squad_building_support_portal
harlequin_squad_building_dark_veil

Note: Only ONE of the above can be built at one time (think Command and Conquer's Mobile HQ). Those above are shown in order of preequistes (ie. both masque_portal and support_portal are not available until Tier2 research is done).

This HQ can build two other unit types (Mimes [builders] and the Master Mime - both are non-deepstrikable).

What has to happen is the HQ, once a webway_marker is placed, will build the "building unit" at the HQ then deepstrike it to the next available webway_marker.

The "building unit" then becomes a full fledged building and NOT a squad like it was before.

Arkhan.. you adapted a 1st generation Builder @ HQ deepstrike routine - can it be simply adopted to deepstrike not to start_pos or build_pos but something else like marker_pos ?

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Arkhan.. you adapted a 1st generation Builder @ HQ deepstrike routine - can it be simply adopted to deepstrike not to start_pos or build_pos but something else like marker_pos ?

This won't help you, since at the time a builder is deepstriked, the building is not built, yet. The buildplan has to search for an HQ first, build the building and then, as soon as it's finished, deepstrike it.

As I see it, we would need a unique harlequinbuildbuildingplan.ai for that. The Strategy:BuildPrereq(...) method also has to be inherited by the harlequinbuildbasestrategy.ai to make sure that it creates the special harlequinbuildbuildingplan and not the basic one.

BTW, how far is this mod? Do they need the AI code soon?

[thudo]

Let me chat with Shin about it. I'm finding most mods usually work with the current AI project but there are some rare exceptions like this, the Harlequins. I'll see if he's about final with it then we can take a look at it together. Mind you, I quickly tried some code last nite and I got the AI to at least NOT crash when the markers were built then it built its first spawnable building but obviously didn't know quite how to deepstrike it to the first available marker. Still.. its a start.

I'll get back to you. Should be fun.

[Finaldeath]

Having a look at the source files, be they LUA or SCAR (urg!) would give a more definite AI answer, certainly in how they function pratically.

[thudo]

Its still experiemental but it works. I got the AI to get to a "non-crash" state so there is progress. Give me a couple o days for Shin to update me on how "final" it is. Then we can brainstorm. This buildstrategy concept is really cool - Shin has been coding ALOT of interesting and innovative gameplay surprises to which he will reveal to the community soon.

[thudo]

Thanks Mankyle! Wow.. old necro'ed thread!

Yes.. There is a faction mod coming up which will use this deepstriking buildings which are created from the HQ as a unit then when deepstriked to point becoming a building. Alot of testing will be occuring to get it right.