39 replies to this topic

[Hostile]

http://edition.cnn.c...reut/index.html

I smell a war coming.

"Iran has forces at its command far superior to anything al Qaeda was ever able to field," wrote former White House counterterror chief Richard Clarke and former State Department official Steven Simon.

I am depressed to realise that we are heading into another war if this course continues. I am afraid this war will result in a clash of civilisations. While I have no solution, logic dictates that Iran with nukes is a bad thing.

The only thing worse than Iran seeking nukes is G Bush being in office while doing it. He has already stated only he has the guts to deal with it, moreso than any past or future President.

On the other hand if Iran has a plan to do so and is aiming at Israel, than it would require a President to do something about it. And Bush does have the balls...

I once was working on a mod where Iran played exactly this part in the story, Crisis Now died long ago but the theme was the same.

Nukes and long range missiles. We can all say they are years away, but we should also remember we all woke up one day to a nuclear Pakistan and India. Did we see that coming?

Do we crush them quick, do we stand back and let them create a nuke, do we believe thier peaceful intent, do we just sit around and ask more questions?

IF we do nothing, what will happen? There are crazy people inside that government. Some may say we are crazy also. crazy+crazy=crazy to the 10th power.

I'm feeling genuinely confused and drepressed about it all. I'm actually afraid of the future to be honest...

[Cobra]

just strengthen all the defences and see what happens. They cant justify firing a nuke at that. btw hostile wats with u and cnn lately lol

[Hostile]

I'm a news junky, and a politics junky. Nothing new here, I run Games Nations Play forum.

[Fingulfin]

Hmm... I have Mixed Feelings about George W. Bush, I thought I liked him, but recently hes been acting like an IDIOT. He hasnt done anything about anything! Personally, I say we order Iran to step down, or nuke 'em. Yes it sounds harsh, but what happens when we wake up and find D.C. a Nuclear Wasteland? Dont worry bout me, im still too young to fully understand such things...

[Ash]

About all he's done about anything is kill some "rag-heads", as he'd probably describe them. He's a warmongering asshole whose foreign policy amounts to "kill any fucker who calls God by a different name".

For me, he should just leave Israel and Iran to it. If they're so stupid as to go the rounds, they should be allowed to. In fact, it would be better for him and his Battle for the Middle East ™, as it'd "make the map easier to read". (MSpencer's words)

If the middle east collapsed under the weight of massive internal conflicts, surely it'd stop them bothering the rest of the world when they draw a few cartoons, no?

Either way, he should keep his stupid American nose out of that which is not American business. He's already conquered two countries in the Middle East. Yes, CONQUERED. He promised they'd get their own presidents and elections, they've had the elections, but haven't had anyone elected yet. Probably they've got dodgy strings, or something we call 'Free will', refusing to bow to American puppeteering. It's now THREE YEARS since the war began, and it still isn't over. Why he won't pull out besides to preserve his Empire (and steal the oil) is beyond me.

[Fingulfin]

OK, I dont think Bush is THAT bad, I just think hes lazy, and hes screwing everything up because of that fact.

[duke_Qa]

curse you hostile, i was planning to create the "generic Iran and middle east warfare" thread less than 12 hours ago and here you beat me to it with the same article that i read. oh well, paranoid minds thinks the same i guess



as far as im concerned atm: Diplomacy has to do some frigging seven-mile-steps to be able to haul this one in now. it seems that the Irani president just wants a war so that he can get the entire middle east against the west, which is quite possible the outcome of a military action against Iran.

side effects;
1.shia-muslims in Iraq goes haywire, causing more tenfolds more trouble in Iraq, if they are not able to attack the americans they might be happy enough with attacking the sunni-muslims, causing a genocide there, thus causing more trouble.

2. pakistan fundamentalists might agitate its people, and if they are lucky the military, to overthrow the current friendly government and take control of their nuclear missiles. depending on who they got the most aggro against(us or india) they will probably start a war with one of us. for us it might be the best if they attack India, as they are not really a part of this. syria and other neighbouring countries might get pissed aswell, but they are not as dangerous compared to pakistan.

3. suicide bombers will quadruple, not only because of more hate but because Iran actually uses suicide bombers as a part of their military. for me that would have been a good enough reason to bomb someone, which might be what they want us to do.

4. a non-warfare problem is that oil prices will peak into 120$ per barrel. before the 9/11 they were around what 10-20$? hehehe, if that is not a sign of trouble i don't know what is.


a war with Iran will basically not be pretty. it will most likely cause a grand explosion in violence, turn Iraq into a proper civil war, people will swarm across its borders to infiltrate areas where western military forces exists. the death tolls will explode for both sides as western troopers gets more paranoid and starts shooting people they fear are insurgents, with good reason since you can't tell who wears a bomb-belt and who are just walking down the streets. conventional warfare will most likely not happen alot as i believe most of the people who will go against the west have understood that being bombed by a stealth bomber 6miles away is not really any good way for them to inflict damage. they will probably go for guerilla tactics at best.

[MSpencer]

1.shia-muslims in Iraq goes haywire, causing more tenfolds more trouble in Iraq, if they are not able to attack the americans they might be happy enough with attacking the sunni-muslims, causing a genocide there, thus causing more trouble.

2. pakistan fundamentalists might agitate its people, and if they are lucky the military, to overthrow the current friendly government and take control of their nuclear missiles. depending on who they got the most aggro against(us or india) they will probably start a war with one of us. for us it might be the best if they attack India, as they are not really a part of this. syria and other neighbouring countries might get pissed aswell, but they are not as dangerous compared to pakistan.

3. suicide bombers will quadruple, not only because of more hate but because Iran actually uses suicide bombers as a part of their military. for me that would have been a good enough reason to bomb someone, which might be what they want us to do.

4. a non-warfare problem is that oil prices will peak into 120$ per barrel. before the 9/11 they were around what 10-20$? hehehe, if that is not a sign of trouble i don't know what is.

Heh, that reminds me of the premise behind many an RTS.

1. Perhaps, probably with this new guy who swears to carry on a fight against the US.
2. What missiles? Pakistan had a bomb project, but they only performed two tests and made some agreements with the US to cease production of HEU and bomb grade material. Did I miss something? And Musharraf has the entire military behind him, plus the United States. He's not going anywhere any time soon.
3. Prove it. I don't believe you, and I'm quite sure that no normal, standing army has ever used suicide bombers as a forefront military tactic. You're just making things up now.
4. If oil were $10/barrel, prices would be like the 1950s again. And I highly doubt a war with Iran, which doesn't have a ton of oil, would cause OPEC to double the price of oil. Again, you're making things up better than EA here.

[duke_Qa]

1. nothing to add as of yet.

2.

its pretty common knowledge that the pakistani have nuclear capability. how they get those nukes where they want them is a different question. they might have some russian missiles or just a bomber. as long as they got the nuke it wouldnt be too impossible to get it somewhere. they have tested missiles in the past, so i don't see the logistic problem. i see the political point though, and i know that president down there is pretty much in control of the military aswell. but there is alot of fundamentalists in pakistan, and you never know what they might be up to. be it revolution or just hijacking.


3.

On the topic of suicide bombers as a military tactic, the times has an article about it. most likely a big lie from that loonie down there, but i don't see a reason why it wouldnt be possible.

IRAN has formed battalions of suicide bombers to strike at British and American targets if the nation's nuclear sites are attacked. According to Iranian officials, 40,000 trained suicide bombers are ready for action. The main force, named the Special Unit of Martyr Seekers in the Revolutionary Guards, was first seen last month when members marched in a military parade, dressed in olive-green uniforms with explosive packs around their waists and detonators held high.

to me this does not only seem like an idiotic tactic in itself, but also as a deliberate attempt at making us more aggressive against them. they know that we really hate those suicide bombers, thus they think "hey lets piss these guys off and make a military branch dedicated to suicide bombings. That should get them up and running so that we get a great war where we can cleanse them out!". so little respect for human life and peace that they are trying to get a war going just to kill some of those they reckon are enemies. its like they are trying to get their names into history no matter the cost. inhuman in a extremely human way.

4.

i cannot claim that i did my research on the oil prices before 9/11, but if you want me to i'll find some graphs and charts:


also as wikipedia says: "The price of standard crude oil on NYMEX was under $25/barrel in September 2003."

so my estimation of a barrel of oil being around 10-20$ in 2001 wasnt too far fetched, might have said 20-30 but it wouldnt really change the point im trying to make here. my claim on the price going up into the 120$ area is what economists claim will happen if/once a war with Iran breaks out. oil tankers will most likely be attacked by Irani military forces to do that on purpose. you can't deny that will affect us.

making up things better than EA? that would be an impossible feat

[MSpencer]

so little respect for human life and peace that they are trying to get a war going just to kill some of those they reckon are enemies. its like they are trying to get their names into history no matter the cost. inhuman in a extremely human way.

The Russians used soldiers to clear minefields in World War II, the Germans shot prisoners of war after they dug trenches and fortifications, the United States has been using foreign troops as cannon fodder for years, the British massacred thousands of poorly trained Zulu and countless more in their quest for empire, the French brutally slaughtered thousands during the revolution, Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds, the Israelis allowed Christian militiamen to slaughter Muslim refugees, the Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese, and Egyptians supported years of suicide bombings against Israel, Osama bin Laden, who was supported by Afghanistan and countless other countries probably including Pakistan, bombed embassies with civilian personnel being the main target, the Cubans massacred enemy forces on the beach without allowing them to surrender during the Bay of Pigs, the Chinese used people as human meat shields during the civil war, the Vietnamese burned innocent civilians alive, both sides did that, the Japanese made people march for days on end with no food or water, sometimes shooting or beheading them, and when they captured an officer, they would normally cut their head off, the US Army slaughtered civilians at Wounded Knee, the Canadians and British burned Washington and killed hundreds, the Irish supported the IRA which killed thousands upon thousands, the Romanians under Vlad killed thousands and mutilated their bodies, and finally, as a nice little touch, the Romans not only put people in the gladiatorial games to watch them die, but would commonly kill and rape thousands in the event of the conquest of a city. Human life is worth nothing in the grand scheme of things to most people. If you look at any country, they or their predecessors have a long history of genocide, war crimes, or cruel treatment. The most advanced nations in the world tend to have the longest history of this behavior, with some atrocities being committed even five years ago.

its pretty common knowledge that the pakistani have nuclear capability. how they get those nukes where they want them is a different question. they might have some russian missiles or just a bomber. as long as they got the nuke it wouldnt be too impossible to get it somewhere. they have tested missiles in the past, so i don't see the logistic problem. i see the political point though, and i know that president down there is pretty much in control of the military aswell. but there is alot of fundamentalists in pakistan, and you never know what they might be up to. be it revolution or just hijacking.

While I will make a concession that they probably have nuclear weapons, and that they are one of the Big Seven (You become a nuclear country when you test your first bomb, actually, Los Alamos sends you a nice plaque and a pin which says "I Tested My First Nuclear Bomb On --/--/--!"), they apparently agreed to cease bomb production years ago, something I never totally bought into. Regardless, they claim they have no bombs, but they definitely have enough HEU to build thirty bombs.

[chemical ali]

I bet a quid war will have started by the 4 th of July.

[Athena]

I hope not.

[Tom]

This was planned, its all on the project for the new american centuries site. Remember the "axis of evil." This problem has been manufactured before your eyes by these peoples and we are all falling for it. Whilst i do agree my gut reaction says nuclear weapons in the hands of iran is a potential threat, the actual war, or soon to become war has been manufactured purposely, just as before with Iraq and Afghanistan. The fourth reich is in development.

[duke_Qa]

i have very little doubt that this potential war in the middle east has been manufactured by ourselves. our pompous desires requires the luxuries of oil to survive for now. indirectly or directly Iran is a threat to this existence we have these days.


but i will not claim that this is a direct attempt of the elite to cower us down to their control. our history of democracy has caused us to value ourselves higher and more equal than in earlier history. other people from the outside though, they are not us thus we don't care much about them.

saying that its the freemasons and the skulls and bones that are trying to manipulate us is more or less like blaming god. you might yell all you want against them and you might feel that you have done your part. heh, throwing your fist at the sky has always been a efficient way at making things happen has it not?

no, the new century conspiracy is the will of the people. they might not believe it themselves, but its kinda like a marriage "those who have anything against this marriage should speak now, or forever be silent". those who keeps their mouths shut will not be heard, and one can practically assume that you agree on whatever they want to do.

but i digress

i've seen this thug of war before(around 3 years ago i reckon), and i heavily doubt there will be a peaceful way out of this mess right now. but a man can hope...

Edited by duke_Qa, 17 April 2006 - 11:26 PM.

[Mastermind]

This was planned, its all on the project for the new american centuries site. Remember the "axis of evil." This problem has been manufactured before your eyes by these peoples and we are all falling for it. Whilst i do agree my gut reaction says nuclear weapons in the hands of iran is a potential threat, the actual war, or soon to become war has been manufactured purposely, just as before with Iraq and Afghanistan. The fourth reich is in development.

I don't know what drugs you've gotten your hands on, but I want some of them. They seem to be some really good shit.

[duke_Qa]

The Russians used soldiers to clear minefields in World War II, the Germans shot prisoners of war after they dug trenches and fortifications, the United States has been using foreign troops as cannon fodder for years, the British massacred thousands of poorly trained Zulu and countless more in their quest for empire, the French brutally slaughtered thousands during the revolution, Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds, the Israelis allowed Christian militiamen to slaughter Muslim refugees, the Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese, and Egyptians supported years of suicide bombings against Israel, Osama bin Laden, who was supported by Afghanistan and countless other countries probably including Pakistan, bombed embassies with civilian personnel being the main target, the Cubans massacred enemy forces on the beach without allowing them to surrender during the Bay of Pigs, the Chinese used people as human meat shields during the civil war, the Vietnamese burned innocent civilians alive, both sides did that, the Japanese made people march for days on end with no food or water, sometimes shooting or beheading them, and when they captured an officer, they would normally cut their head off, the US Army slaughtered civilians at Wounded Knee, the Canadians and British burned Washington and killed hundreds, the Irish supported the IRA which killed thousands upon thousands, the Romanians under Vlad killed thousands and mutilated their bodies, and finally, as a nice little touch, the Romans not only put people in the gladiatorial games to watch them die, but would commonly kill and rape thousands in the event of the conquest of a city. Human life is worth nothing in the grand scheme of things to most people. If you look at any country, they or their predecessors have a long history of genocide, war crimes, or cruel treatment. The most advanced nations in the world tend to have the longest history of this behavior, with some atrocities being committed even five years ago.

basically yeah. we're all cynic as long as it doesnt affect us.

[Hostile]

This article just kills me. Sums up alot of my thoughts. Very interesting reading indeed.

http://www.washingto...opinion/columns

Question is, do we sit back and use diplomacy with no "ultimatum?" Or is an ass wooping coming on the horizon. Spence says Iran can't reach Israel with thier missiles. Seems he was misinformed.

[Az3r^]

So a Holocaust-denying, virulently anti-Semitic, aspiring genocidist, on the verge of acquiring weapons of the apocalypse, believes that the end is not only near but nearer than the next American presidential election. (Pity the Democrats. They cannot catch a break.) This kind of man would have, to put it gently, less inhibition about starting Armageddon than a normal person. Indeed, with millennial bliss pending, he would have positive incentive to, as they say in Jewish eschatology, hasten the end.

oh geez.

and i know that either way a superpower will prob interveen before the launch of any missles, either that or they will kick back and watch the middle east destroy each other.

[Tom]

This was planned, its all on the project for the new american centuries site. Remember the "axis of evil." This problem has been manufactured before your eyes by these peoples and we are all falling for it. Whilst i do agree my gut reaction says nuclear weapons in the hands of iran is a potential threat, the actual war, or soon to become war has been manufactured purposely, just as before with Iraq and Afghanistan. The fourth reich is in development.

I don't know what drugs you've gotten your hands on, but I want some of them. They seem to be some really good shit.

Yet you have a quote in your signature that totally redefines everything i believe. What drugs have you been smoking?

duke_Qa, good points yet thats based on the power we give them. I'm stating that we trust them and we fall for these lies, if we took responsibility for such events then maybe such things wouldn't happen. By "we" i mean humanity as a whole, because that is what it will take before this world radically changes for the better.

[MSpencer]

This article just kills me. Sums up alot of my thoughts. Very interesting reading indeed.

http://www.washingto...opinion/columns

Question is, do we sit back and use diplomacy with no "ultimatum?" Or is an ass wooping coming on the horizon. Spence says Iran can't reach Israel with thier missiles. Seems he was misinformed.

I didn't say they didn't have striking ability, just that they didn't have any means of fitting a first generation warhead on a missile. If you remember the size of first gen US and Soviet nukes, you'd see what I mean. It would take them years, or help from Russia or China to get them that small, and something makes me think the Chinese manifest destiny will make them more pliable to outside influence.

Last month Ahmadinejad said publicly that the main mission of the Islamic Revolution is to pave the way for the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam.

Now that is disturbing...