23 replies to this topic

[Hostile]

http://edition.cnn.c...reut/index.html

If the US and Coalition forces left Afganistan, it would be overrun and turn back into terrorist training camps. Yet if we stay, our mere presence results in further recruitment for the Taliban.

Afghanistan thrives on bribes. Do we resort to bribes for allegiance? Bribes only go as far as the money flows. And it's not ethical. Yet that is the way thier society runs.

We can't leave, we can't stay. And what again are we supposed to do?

The Afghanistan government is backed by the US (duh?) and will continue to be a sore till we leave. Yet if we leave, the country may topple back to the Taliban.

In this specific case, I believe we stay for the long haul. There is no oil, or gold, or diamonds, just a place that needs our help. (our is the world not just the US)

[chemical ali]

I agree, at the moment the British are now taking control of the peace keeping forces, even though we have brought Paratroopers, Apaches, Harriers all usually for use in wars. The problem with Afghanistan is the drugs, opium is getting produced there becauses thats all that can be grown, the soil is crap, the country is covered with mines from the Soviet occupation, its a wasteland.

Now the idea of the heavy forces is so we can build a permament base for the future, the problem is support, with most US forces concentrated on Iraq, theres only so much other countries can do, the Dutch are providing F16 air support, but half the run ways in the country are useless so thats why Harriers are there. The heavy British presense is primairy targetting the drugs problem as its where most of the heroin in the UK comes from which is why we need to stop it at the source.

The thing is, its all tribal problems and how they all hate each other which is the problem, the Taliban did all the killing which kept everyone happy which is the problem now. Its a useful theatre for Iran as well having a presence on both sides of a country will hopefully show them we mean business.

[MSpencer]

The runways are quite usable. We've created a bunch of them, and we were also using some in Pakistan which I'm sure we could still use in case of an emergency.

[chemical ali]

The runways are quite usable. We've created a bunch of them, and we were also using some in Pakistan which I'm sure we could still use in case of an emergency.

Yeah but usually every night the locals make a few holes in them with some misguided mortars.

[MSpencer]

Not every night, and its fairly difficult to make a runway unusable. Just talk to members of the RAF and USAAF during World War II.

[chemical ali]

And jet aircraft arnt too good with dust, Harriers are a little tougher than F16s.

[MSpencer]

Harriers also have more instances of rollovers than most SUVs.

[chemical ali]

Harriers also have more instances of rollovers than most SUVs.

Only by American pilots as all the videos of Harriers crashing are members of the USMC.

[duke_Qa]

the main problem atm is Iran. before Iran had 3 troublesome areas around them, Iraq, Afganistan and the Soviet. soviet left a long time ago, Afganistan got busted a few years ago and so did Iraq... this has caused the Irani religious leaders to see that the path for a united sharia world power. expanding into Iraq and Afganistan would be a dream come through for these guys. problem is naturally that the US is there.

so basically, as long as the Iranians are wise enough not to attack the USA and the coalition forces, i would say that as long as there are american troops in Afganistan, it will keep a damper on Irans will to capture it. Iraq is at the moment way to filled up with troopers for the Iranis to think about capturing it, but thats where the oil is so who knows... perhaps thats what they want a nuke for...

[Az3r^]

Harriers also have more instances of rollovers than most SUVs.

Only by American pilots as all the videos of Harriers crashing are members of the USMC.

sorry that made me lmao

but , yeah harriers are tactically alot easier to muster/use imo.

and i see where ur coming from hostile, the place would just fall back into instablity , now im not sure what we are ment to do, we cant pull our troops out, and when the country goes tits up again send the them back in, as im sure they wouldnt want to do. i dunno tis a tough predicament

[MSpencer]

Harriers also have more instances of rollovers than most SUVs.

Only by American pilots as all the videos of Harriers crashing are members of the USMC.

You're a fool. The equipment is shoddy, not the personnel. You ever wonder why the F-35 is going to have a VTOL version? It's because the Harrier DOESN'T WORK. It's got a poor wing profile for that kind of aircraft, very very low ordnance capacity for what is supposed to be a forward support aircraft (If you want to really save time, it shouldn't involve cycling your aircraft after five minutes), and very poor controls and speed. It's overall a poor airframe, and while it can operate from an LCA, it's not going to be that useful in the field unless you have a running supply line of ordnance and aviation grade fuel. It's crap.
And the Marines fly it fine. They've had practically no accidents which weren't ruled as airframe failures, and before you say we have the "shitty" Harriers, they're newer than yours and better kept.

[Az3r^]

the harriers have been in the British air force for donkeys years and i believe have served us well, they arnt a bad peice of machinery and where one of the aircraft that revolutionised taking off and landing abilities as well as being hella usefull , who needs a runway when u can take off vertically .

i saw some pilots fly the harrier at waddington air show some years ago, and fuck i was amazed at what they could do with them sure there old but they are still awesome machines , no matter what "the facts say"

[wilmet]

not sure about AV8B(US) > GR7A or GR9(UK) but whatever... at least some bombs landing on taliban are better than no bombs I guess.

Edited by wilmet, 19 May 2006 - 01:54 PM.

[chemical ali]

http://www.compfused...directlink/445/

Spence heres one, looks like a Marine one with the colouring.....


Harriers won us the Falklands, F-35 will replace it yes, buts its a marvel of British enginering. I would like to see some American air support with all your fantastic technology as the Dutch arnt used to military roles they have no seen action for years, the British forces are overstretched due to the cut backs by the current regime which is why our aircraft might not be shiney and have cd players in but least we can fly them.

[wilmet]

top taleban leader arrested in south afghanistan (maybe)

[Ash]

I say leave.


You don't belong there, same as you don't belong in Iraq. Concentrate on improving relations with the middle east and helping them build instead of occupying them. Any terrorists come into the US, you kill them. Sounds fair.

Easiest way to combat hatred against your nation is to remove their reason to hate you. Al Qaeda were US-trained to fight the Soviets. After the Iron Curtain was folded up and fucked off back to Russian, the USA abandoned them and left them in a country in complete anarchy. It's clear that Al Quaeda and most other terrorist groups don't actually want anything whatsoever except to kill people, however you'll generate more sympathy for your war on terror by improving the lives of the people than you will by marching troops all over their ass and installing puppet goverments (or trying to).

Advantage number 2 is that by doing this and bringing their standards of living and economy up to world standards is that you can get slipped a backhander of oil exports which is, after all, the primary reason the USA wants a powerbase in the Middle East. Win-win.

[Elerium]

Easiest way to combat hatred against your nation is to remove their reason to hate you.

Impossible, Afghanistan is run by groups of peasants with machineguns, they see the west as something of jealousy and want to smash it. Throw in some twisted Qu'ran text words about how the west should be destroyed and this is why people join Al'Queda. You can't bargain with these kinds of people.

[Ash]

You can challenge it by helping the people and breaking the mould. You'd generate support amongst the less zealous, or if nothing else give a good enough excuse to wash your hands of that ungrateful nation at the end of the day. As it stands, the USA is at least part of the reason that Afghanistan is in such shit state.

[MSpencer]

http://www.compfused...directlink/445/

Spence heres one, looks like a Marine one with the colouring.....


Harriers won us the Falklands, F-35 will replace it yes, buts its a marvel of British enginering. I would like to see some American air support with all your fantastic technology as the Dutch arnt used to military roles they have no seen action for years, the British forces are overstretched due to the cut backs by the current regime which is why our aircraft might not be shiney and have cd players in but least we can fly them.

And you think the British don't crash aircraft?
You know nothing about anything. You have no proof, and your argument is crap. The Harrier is a shitty aircraft, the only purpose of which is if no runways are available, such as when you're bottled up in a confined area and surrounded by enemy forces, or in the middle of the ocean with no carrier.

[Ash]

Even Sea Harriers require a carrier.

Ali, you do realise that the Harrier can only hover for a grand total of 90 seconds before the engine overheats? Just so you know

The Harrier was a technological marvel, I'll agree. But it's dated and old and pretty useless.

But what this has to do with Afghanistan I'm not sure.