17 replies to this topic

[Hostile]

After interacting with the last GNP article I began to put two and two together. Is the communisation of S. America one of the leading causes of the mass exodus of illigal immigrants to the US?

Everytime a country communizes, there is always a mass migration and consistant migration from that nation to the US. Whether Vietnam, N. Korea, East Germany, Cuba, China, Poland, Czech Republic, and so on, afterwards all these people tend to leave or "attempt" to leave to the US or at least the western democracies.

While S. America is becoming more communist, and poorer because of it, their so called People's Party doesn't seem to have as much of the people's support as one can observe. There is only one word for the number of S. Americans coming north to the US, a MASS exodus to politcal and economical freedom.

Now this does not include all of S America. I can only test this theory by the number of people I live close to and work with from "those" countries. There is an imbalance I noticed.

As a capitalist I always wanted to ask the question, if communism is by the people, of the people, and for the people than why do they always mass exodus from these nations to travel to the country that has defined itself as, by the people, of the people, and for the people...

Any thoughts?

[Comrade Kal]

The reaosn there's mass migration is because America gives free citizenship to people from communist countries.

South America is having more socialist leaders but if you can find me a single source to say that Cubans, Venezuelans, Bolivians... are worse off because of it then i'll maybe believe a word you say.

Want to know the worst off countries in south america? Look at countries like Nicaragua. Thrived with socialism, they brought in capitalism and now they're the poorest country in the western hemisphere.

The reason there's an imbalance is because you can only talk to people who fled those countries, who are in a tiny minority. And they're ALL going to be against it because they fled. It's like saying "let's get a balanced view of christianity" and going to the guy who runs god hates fags.

As I said, those who flee tend to be the richer businessmen for whom communism does nothing (rightly so) and they are in a very tiny minority.

[duke_Qa]

action/reaction

the US has been messing about too much with CIA and "he is a bastard, but he is our bastard" dictators down there. now they are tired of being the cornucopia of the USA, so they are trying the system that has not fucked them up.

although who knows how things will work out. humans are known to fail once power flows into their hands...

[Banshee]

It's not communism that makes people migrate to richer countries. It's poverty. An american pizza delivery person receives much more than a brazilian experienced doctor or a brazilian university teacher receives.

But it's true that these populist leaders (like Chavez, Evo Morales and some other bastards) brings more poverty to their countries.

[xjjohnno]

Do they bring more poverty or reduce the differences in levels of wealth which seems a lot more likely.
And poverty/low income is going to be a lot more apparent and noticable in a supposedly affluent country where basic commodities like food and shelter take up a higher percentage of earnings even though the earning figures may appear higher.
I'll assume most of the folk here are from at least reasonable income brackets,hence the net connection and the pc,but do you ever ask the question about your own town in regards to how much hidden poverty there is,especially in the instance of working poor.Here in Oz we like to pat ourselves on the back about being a lucky country,but look at the minimum wage and the cost of living along with collecting a few stats on who earns what and suddenly that myth is exposed and you find that there's a lot of families living in poverty while holding down full time work.I'm sure the same applies for the UK and the USA.
While our very not so objective press loves to demonise more leftist governments,think of the benefits that the low incomed folk get in the way of improved potential earnings and the control of their countries resources when foreign multi nationals are no longer plundering their economies.

[Comrade Kal]

Ignoring the fact that correlation does not imply causation, I demand to see figures showing that there has been increased migration above the norm that goes along with the increase in left-wing governments. Without that, this is just basically a contrived lie.

[Hostile]

Funny this came up. I was talking to my coworker who is from Peru. Thier recent election was with a past president who is known as the worst president they ever had and caused the economy to bottom out in the '80's vs a socialist with close ties with Chavez.

The Peruvian people actually chose the worst president in thier history over a socialist. I found that interesting.

And this article is not about facts, it's about speculation. Cleary stated in the first sentence. I've created a "speculation" in my search for answers. Doesn't mean it's true, just worth pondering.

And once again I have to state alot of the reasons why the poor are poor is because they do not understand how money works. IF they did then the could better manage thier lives.

There are alot of poor people in the US as well. They work hard make not enough income.

For example: People have a baby, they open a young kids saving account, which makes .5 %, inflation here is 2.2%. They are losing money. Yet they have $4000 in the account for thier childs future education needs.

If they used what is called a 529 Plan, then they could place that same $4000 in there make average 10% return TAX FREE, and through the magic of compound interest end up with $30k in 18 years. While the original $4000 in a savings account actually lost money due to inflation.

Much better idea for a one time $4000 investment. Capitalism isn't the evil, it's the path to freedom, but it's the lack of knowledge that is the evil.

And if a child does not use all the money for education, by the time he/she is 30 years old, it automatically rolls over into an individual IRA account. If the child NEVER used the money when he is ready to retire he would have $4.2 million dollars.

Granted it doesn't take into account inflation but still. Knowing how that all works makes all the difference in the end result.

[Comrade Kal]

What? Who cares? That last rambling about bank accounts had nothing to do with anything.

So, for all we know, there could be LESS immigration as more socialist governments take power, which would mean you're entirely wrong about everything.

Also, he wasnt just a socialist, he was also a bit of a military dictator. Saying he wasn't elected because he was a 'socialist' is like saying Adolf Hitler is unpopular because he merged sports clubs together.

[Jeeves]

He did? BASTARD!!!

[Hostile]

What? Who cares? That last rambling about bank accounts had nothing to do with anything.

So, for all we know, there could be LESS immigration as more socialist governments take power, which would mean you're entirely wrong about everything.

Also, he wasnt just a socialist, he was also a bit of a military dictator. Saying he wasn't elected because he was a 'socialist' is like saying Adolf Hitler is unpopular because he merged sports clubs together.

Your lack of knowledge on how money works is the reason you are scared of capitalism and choose to spread your fear and think that socialism will solve this. Same reason why you will either end up in a gutter broke or out running around in some jungle somewhere with an AK-47.

I'm not afraid of my future, because I've prepared for it. Even if a world wide market plummets, I've made assets set aside for that also. Granted I'm not rich, but a diversified portfolio is necessary. As well as having assets in more than one country.

Your best investment is to simply just buy an AK-47 and alot of rounds. So you can TAKE what you need. Because until you actually grow up and enter the REAL world, you're just a stickman, with a stick gun, living in a stickmans world. Shooting at make believe targets with Bushes face on them.

[Comrade Kal]

Great idea Hostile! I'll safeguard my future by saving money!

If only I had some money to save...

[Hostile]

If you're broke with no kids to feed than you need to reevalute your budget, cause something isn't adding up right.

[Comrade Kal]

Or you could be getting paid minimum wage, which is simply not enough to live on.

Look at me, i'm penniless and when i've finished at university i'll have thousands of pounds of debts to pay off. That's hardly fair.

[Ash]

What Kal said. However you add it up, unless your parents are throwing money at you left, right and centre, no student can realistically afford to live to a decent standard.

[Cossack]

I find it interesting that the US is so willing to help migrants from communist countries, but doesn't to do shit about sub-saharan and most african countries that are FAR worse off than any communist country. They are just trying to make themselves look like the good guys and the communists look like the bad guys.
They offer to get migrants out of communist countries for free, saying that they are oppressed, when there are people in non-communist third world countries that are even more oppressed, and the Americans don't give a shit about them.

[MSpencer]

What Kal said. However you add it up, unless your parents are throwing money at you left, right and centre, no student can realistically afford to live to a decent standard.

Absolutely agreed.

[Hostile]

I find it interesting that the US is so willing to help migrants from communist countries, but doesn't to do shit about sub-saharan and most african countries that are FAR worse off than any communist country. They are just trying to make themselves look like the good guys and the communists look like the bad guys.
They offer to get migrants out of communist countries for free, saying that they are oppressed, when there are people in non-communist third world countries that are even more oppressed, and the Americans don't give a shit about them.

Google is your friend... http://www.usaid.gov...saharan_africa/

[Comrade Kal]

You know as well as we do that throwing (a pathetically small amount of) money at them does nothing.