23 replies to this topic

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Changes:

- Improved jump attacks for melee (Retreats should be very rare now!)

- Improved defend plan to gather troops if necessary (We'll see if it works...)

- Some slighter fixes to improve performance and harassing effiency

Have fun!!!

[thudo]

Thanks Nicolai! Outstanding work!

Testers - its up on the site for you to appraise! Message your findings in this thread please!

[Quietdeath]

Very nice - the ai became so strong. I lost in a 1n1. I think I have to train before I try to find weaknesses
The improved defend plan - imho - was the main reason the ai survived against my harrassments.

Edited by Quietdeath, 18 June 2006 - 12:11 PM.

[thudo]

Wow.. QuietDeath.. can you please report a little more concisely using the following template..

Report for v1.8b5

Match: <1v1 or alliance and what factions played as and against>
Map: <map name>
A.I Difficulty: <Easy, Standard, Hard, Harder, or Insane> *HARD is preferred!*
Resources Rate: <Slow, Normal or High> *Normal is preferred!*
Resources Sharing: <On or Off> *Off is preferred!*
Winner: <You or AI enemies>

Comments: <Provide your detailed comments>

Thank you sir.

[Quietdeath]

Yes I usually do it - but this was just one of the games I do against the AI to get a feeling - nothing serious.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

As long as the posts contain cemments like...

Very nice - the ai became so strong. I lost in a 1n1.

... I accept every possible format.

[thudo]

That also works for me too.. especially in 1vs1

[Quietdeath]

Report #1 for v1.8b5

Match: alliance -> 2 SM vs 2 CSM (random)
Map: 4P_BIFFYS_PERIL
A.I Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Team 1 -> Me and AI ally
Replay: Is attached

Comments ([-]negative [+]positive):

• [-]The chaos commander is already retreating while the rest of his troups get killed:
  
• [-]My ally does suicide with his FC:
  
• [+]As soon it was possible (had to defend against my ally earlier) the AI helped his partner and killed big parts of my army (the green player is the CSM AI):
  
• [-]The nearly defeated csm repairs the stronghold instead of saving for a racks or cultists to get more res:
  
• [+]The SM builds mines in front of the enemy's base :
  

Attached Files

•  4P_BIFFYS_PERIL.2006_06_18.19_33_15.rar   192.92KB   15 downloads

Edited by Quietdeath, 18 June 2006 - 06:30 PM.

[JBird]

1)

Match: 1v1/ Me= Eldar / AI= Orks
Map: Absolute Zero
A.I. Difficulty: Standard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Me
Win Trigger: Take & Hold

Comments: A.I. did a weird teleport attack and had me crippled at the start. I was surprised at some basic rushes that they did. However, the basic long game strategy was not much better than vanilla Dawn of War. In many cases the ai retreated when they really could have crippled me. They commenced a Take and Hold victory and had it down to two minutes which scared me, but then I brought in some wraithlords [2], Dark Reeper Squads [3], Full Seer Council, Guardian Squad, and a Farseer. The Orks couldn’t do anything as I took the Critical Location, both Relics, and all but one Strategic Location. I was going to wipe them off the map, but the Take and Hold defaulted and I won after about 20-some minutes. Am going to try same difficulty with a more open map and random ai, and I’ll see what happens.

2)

Match 1v1/ Me= Eldar / AI= Chaos
Map: Blood River
A.I. Difficulty: Standard
Resources Rate: Standard
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Me
Win Trigger: Annihilate

Comments: Wow! 33 Minute breathtaking match. I guess this doesn’t say much for my Dawn of War abilities, but this was a very close match. The Take and Hold went back and forth 3-4 times and at one point I was just over 1 minute away from losing. Eventually I just held my base [under massive attacks] and unleashed an Avatar with Fireprism, Wraithlord, and Dark Reeper Squads. From this point onward the A.I. could not stop me. I must have pumped out 20 wraiths and maybe 10 fireprims and countless squads though. Eventually my forces wiped the Chaos off the map. In this match “standard” was like normal DOW “Hard or Harder”.



OVERALL A.I. COMMENTS:

I think the a.i. main weaknesses have not changed much since DOW vanilla. Mainly: Quick retreats, instead of finishing the job the ai quickly retreats even to inferior forces?? Secondly: Bad building destruction queing. Instead of taking out critical buildings like Machine builders and Barracks the ai focuses on surrounding buildings that are less important, like a power plant.

[thudo]

Please play on HARD Skill.. STANDARD is NOT a good determinant of the AI since it is *resource crippled* compared to the human player.

[JBird]

Ok no problem, just getting a feel for the AI. Don't wanna get my ass kicked on teh first try lol.

[thudo]

No problemo.. Just glad we have a solid guild of testers..

More comments/opinions/reflections from the battlefield = better AI enhancements.

[JBird]

3)

Match: 1v1/ Me= Imperial Guard / AI= Imperial Guard
Map: 2p_Deadman’s crossing
A.I. Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Standard
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: A.I.
Win Trigger: Annihilate @ 16 min 38 seconds

Comments: It’s quite obvious that I haven’t played as the guard for awhile. The ai spanked me, and it wasn’t even a close/fun match at all. I’m sad to say that I was so unprepared for the quick ai assaults that I really didn’t have a chance to analyze the ai only to try an scramble. Unlike standard when you can comeback and win, once a hard enemy sees your base its over. Now that I am prepared for what to expect I will try some 2v2 or 3v3s.

One weakness of AI: Still retreats way too easily, giving the opposing player a chance to rebuild.

[Quietdeath]

One weakness of AI: Still retreats way too easily, giving the opposing player a chance to rebuild.

I also observed this behaviour. As I pointed out in my first comment the AI sacrifizes troops to rescue their commander.

[Quietdeath]

I watched the replay again and saw this situation:

The ASM squad jumped to the marked spot and while under fire followed the left CSM squad. Seems to me that the jump code still has some flaws.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

The ASM squad jumped to the marked spot and while under fire followed the left CSM squad. Seems to me that the jump code still has some flaws.

Melee squads have a priority to attack the closest ranged squad. We are not able to figure out the target of a shooting unit. Therefore it's not possible to fix this issue without internal code changes from Relic.

One weakness of AI: Still retreats way too easily, giving the opposing player a chance to rebuild.

I think the fast retreats could also be target changes, where the AI gathers first at a distant point. I might be able to improve this behaviour.

However, the basic long game strategy was not much better than vanilla Dawn of War.

Building behaviour is crippled in standard. That's intentional!

[Slash]

sorry i couldnt test out the new build, ive been studing/writing my exams, just wait until tomarrow ill start posting comments about the AI!

[JBird]

4)

Match: 4v1/ Me= Space Marines AI= various [all sides except elder for enemies].
Map: 8p_Oasis of Sharr
A.I. Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Standard
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: My Team
Win Trigger: Annihilate @ 38 min 42 seconds

Comments: Basically I let my allies do all the “battle fielding” while I turtled up a storming army. While I protected my self with some troops, dual bases, 4 turrets, and small help from allies, I built my tech tree to the sky. I then commenced to move my entire army [2 full groups] to the relic location. Upon capturing the relic I built a Land Raider although I really didn’t need it. I maxed my vehicle and infantry limits and cued up 10 of each teleporting units for reserves. Basically I won due to AWESOME ai teamwork. Although my 3 friends would have eventually lost without my storm of an army, they protected me enough to advance to fullest potential. Cheers for the ai there. Enemy’s main weakness was that they focused a bit too much on mid-map skirmishing and never really led a full assault on my base. They left their forces in the mid-map conflict areas and stockpiled at their home bases. Although even if attacked I probably could have survived and still won, it would have shown a smarter effort by the ai..

Final Thought: Although SP is more than efficient, Maybe team play is best on “Harder” a.i. mode.

[Quietdeath]

Report #2 for v1.8b5

Match: alliance -> SM SM CSM vs Orc SM IG (all AI random)
Map: 6P_BLOODSHED_ALLEY
A.I Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Team 1 -> Me and AI allies
Replay: Is attached

Comments ([-]negative [+]positive):

• [-]I saw a lot of suiciding - ie one unit attacks etc:
  
• [+]The ally code seems to be very good - the game was very dynamic and the AI players helped each others a lot. Was fun to see that

Attached Files

•  6P_BLOODSHED_ALLEY.2006_06_20.15_24_15.rar   275.61KB   10 downloads

[LarkinVB]

Great report Quitedeath. Some of the suicide attacks can surely be improved but some can not. For example the AI can't detect reliable wether an infantry unit has AV or plasma.