40 replies to this topic

[Pendaelose]

The Contra.04 AI is the base for which this vote is being taken.


I'll point out right now, that my opinion is pretty set and the AI for Remix3 is fully under development.

This forum is just to get an idea of where the comunity stands in opinion. Many of you have begged for easier, while many have begged for harder.

If you request is based on an AI BUG, mention that... don't say you want it harder because its broken... base your desicion on working AI. If there is a bug, report it. At the very least mention it here with your vote.

My opinion...

Easy: A little easier
Normal: A little harder
Hard: Insane

Edited by Creator, 26 June 2006 - 06:57 AM.

[Phoenix911]

Little Harder = easy
Much Harder = normal
Much Harder/Insain = hard (this one is boarder line

[alpha86]

Easy - Much Harder
Normal - Much Harder
Hard - Insane.

With the new units and powers, the literally crys out to be made harder

[Slowpoke]

Insanely hard. I wipe the floor with all of the AI's.

[Creator]

My opinion about insanee - it must be as hard as scriptable, but with minimal cheating.

[orkan39]

I reckon easy AI should be a little easier, normal AI should be much harder but with very little cheating and hard AI should be insanely difficult with maximum cheating.

Edited by orkan39, 22 June 2006 - 09:59 PM.

[Pendaelose]

I'm cool with the normal and hard both being made much harder... but I have to ask, WHY make the easy harder?? sense there are people asking for easier and harder, wouldn't it make sense to try and apease both. If you need harder, set it to hard, if you need it easier, set it to easy... the whole purpose of varying dificulties is so they can be different.



with regards to cheating AI... my feeling is that the normal should be as hard as possible within the limits of fairness. but I think the Hard needs to be open season with cheats. I want to see AI suitable for playing agsint several human players at once... CoOp can be alot of fun as a multi-player mode, and normal zerohour AI just can't pull it off.

[Gilgamesh]

Danmit, i voted wrong! I saw "how it is" not "how it should change", so i voted:

Easy: Passafist easy
Normal: Much easier
Hard: A little harder

Should be:
Easy: Much harder
Normal: Much harder
Hard: Insane... As hard as scriptable

And then you should introduce a new money option in the menu, like 10,000,000. This is so we can play 1vs1 against a hard ai.

[Guy980]

i love contra, but i barly get by as it is. Not to much more pwnage.
easy= little harder
medium=same
hard=little harder.

[Ubermedic]

I personally say
1.easy = passafict
2.normal = hard
3.hard = insane

so if you just want to kick ass play easy
if you want a challenge play hard.

[alpha86]

I'm cool with the normal and hard both being made much harder... but I have to ask, WHY make the easy harder?? sense there are people asking for easier and harder, wouldn't it make sense to try and apease both. If you need harder, set it to hard, if you need it easier, set it to easy... the whole purpose of varying dificulties is so they can be different.

with regards to cheating AI... my feeling is that the normal should be as hard as possible within the limits of fairness. but I think the Hard needs to be open season with cheats. I want to see AI suitable for playing agsint several human players at once... CoOp can be alot of fun as a multi-player mode, and normal zerohour AI just can't pull it off.

The thing with easy staying the way it is, is that with Contra 0.4, you can barely get to level 5 without completely crippling the enemy, at least that is the case in a 1vs1. Granted we are talking about the build for the remix AI, but if its based on contra 0.4, then it'll be the same?

With regards to AI cheating, I call it as fair play... the only thing i don't like about it is when they start building structures on top of each other. That's one thing that needs fixing if it hasn't been done already. Basically I think that the new "easy" should be what was considered/estimated to be part-way between medium and hard in the original zero-hour. "medium" should be about twice the difficulty of the original hard ZH, and hard should be really as you have already said- maxium difficulty as far as scipting goes, with cheating. After all it does need to be challenging

[Pendaelose]

The thing with easy staying the way it is, is that with Contra 0.4, you can barely get to level 5 without completely crippling the enemy, at least that is the case in a 1vs1. Granted we are talking about the build for the remix AI, but if its based on contra 0.4, then it'll be the same?

Its not the same. Remix3 is very differnt from Contra. Its been very heavily altered and with the exception of some common units and buildings has completely differnt content, gameplay, and balance. And except of insperation the AI is being completely redone with no ties back to Contra. Expect everything about it to be very different.

With regards to AI cheating, I call it as fair play... the only thing i don't like about it is when they start building structures on top of each other. That's one thing that needs fixing if it hasn't been done already. Basically I think that the new "easy" should be what was considered/estimated to be part-way between medium and hard in the original zero-hour. "medium" should be about twice the difficulty of the original hard ZH, and hard should be really as you have already said- maxium difficulty as far as scipting goes, with cheating. After all it does need to be challenging

Building stacking isn't fixable at our level. Its a hard coded bug in the AI. Blame EA for that one.

Edited by Pendaelose, 22 June 2006 - 03:57 PM.

[Pendaelose]

I think there is either something wrong with your install (wrong skermish.scb), or you are not refering to contra.04.

the only difference in AI settings in Contra.04 was the amount of money the AI was given.

An easy could match toe to toe with a hard in many cases.

Thus the reason I think it should be easier.

[oops2005]

easy------ normal AI, no cheating
normal----- harder AI, no cheating
hard------- hardest AI, some cheating(money)

[Capt.Drake]

I think Easy should be like it is, maybe a bit easier.
Medium should be quite hard, no cheating
Hard, insane, but not too much cheating, maybe money cheating, but nit that it's units are stronger or so!

[Pendaelose]

I think Easy should be like it is, maybe a bit easier.
Medium should be quite hard, no cheating
Hard, insane, but not too much cheating, maybe money cheating, but nit that it's units are stronger or so!

I think it should be like this:

Easy should hold back a little... it should be a relaxed fight for an expierenced player, and challenging for a N00B only. Anyone will familiar with the game should be able to whup up on an easy (thats why its called easy)

Normal should be as tough as posible but use minimal cheating, just enough to keep the AI stable and fighting. For example, AI doesn't understand money management... even when the build lists include costs it doesn't know how to prioritize, so to be capable of playing even an OK human it needs money cheats. the Normal AI should be what most player fight most of the time... a rewarding challenge suitable for a 1vs1 for vetern players. Not unbeatable, just challenging enough to break a small sweat and give a feeling of acomplishement after a long game.

Hard should use EVERYTHING to its advantage, cheats, bonuses, everything. the reason being, any fair match of "AI vs a GOOD human player" the AI will get its ass kicked... the AI is persistant, and ruthless, but it is not clever.. it is not smart. in any fair fight a good human player will kick the AI's ass just because the human is smarter. I want a Hard AI that can fight 2+ GOOD human players at one time... For this it has to be able to cheat.

the Hard AI in Remix3 is currently using these cheats:

EXP multiplyer
Starts at Tech3 (skips Escalation1-3 upgrades)
Endless money
Can purchas ALL general's powers for it's level.

I've play tested the AI extensivly with both single and multiplayer and am VERY happy with how it plays.

My honest recomendation for Contra, or for any mod would be to do the same. A fair, hard fight is fantastic.... for 1 player. 1 player can fight 2 or 3 fair fights at once if he's good enough. But if you have any plans for including multi-player capable AI then it has to cheat to keep up with the humans... and I'm OK with that.

Playing against the AI is not a competition with the AI, its a competition with yourself... and the only cheating is what you bring with you... The AI isn't a person and doesn't follow the same morals as a human, its a tool... and its a tool that YOU use, not me. I (the modder) don't cheat and beat you... I simply give you an AI capable of giving you the chalange you requested. My job is to give you that challange any way I can. I have to create an AI that is faced with the challenge of beating an oponent who is infinatly smarter, responds faster and more adaptive. the AI's enemy (you) can learn and adapt... it is only reasonable to give the AI its own unique set of tools to face such an unrealistic goal. If the AI had half the advantage that the human mind has we would surely be dead at the hands of our PCs by now.

[Striker26]

aww crap gonna need all my friends for this one..

[PR 4 @LL!!!]

if they have access to all that will they use all the promos at once or not, also the normal ZH hards are harder then ur ones ( no offence)

i think lets them ave all those cheats except stuff like less sw timers and faster build times that will take da mik abit.....