Skirmish AI 1.8 beta 6
#1
Posted 23 June 2006 - 07:11 PM
Changes:
- Added attack chains (AI's search another close enemy post as target if they finished an attack.)
- Improved harassing
- Fixed a heavy defend plan bug which sometimes led to suicide attacks
- More accurate analysis of attack situation
- Reduced allied support a bit (They aborted entire attacks too easy...)
- A few other slighter fixes...
This should be the last beta. If there aren't any biggies like crashes or sudden severe gameplay issues, then we're ready for our 1.8 release.
#2
Posted 23 June 2006 - 08:25 PM
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#5
Posted 24 June 2006 - 05:50 PM
Uhmm not gonna happen - thats like saying: lets disable all ubers like LR or BBs because the map you played has a tight startpoint. Sorry folks but the AI cannot choose what vehicle building to build ubers from - there is no code for that or else we'd have ubers being produced on outer factories. This is all map dependant and AI code which doesn't exist for such large units to be built somewhere without being boxed in.I would disable the squiggofant in the build order - in 5 games it always was stuck between buildings and no help for the AI - instead it is using vehicle points which could be used to buy other tanks...
Btw.. 1.8b6 is going up in a few minutes for the testers!
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#7
Posted 27 June 2006 - 10:51 PM
Match: ork(me) vs eldar
Map: Jungle Morning
A.I Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Me > AI
Comments:
- Since i was orks the AI could easily repel my forces using warp spiders, but instead it used dark reapers and later banshees (although shees are a good choice, but the AI should had brought them out at start). The AI should atleast stop using dark reapers after spoting what kind of units i have on the field.
-At the beginning of the game, i had already captured one point and half way to the next ,while the AI was still trying to capture its first. AI is really slow in capping points.
-IMO the AI as eldar shouldnt get 3 squads of gaurdiens, but instead 2. It should had used the extra squad for unit upgrade or buy a more usefull unit squad.
-AI uses too much time capturing points, since this is hard AI it should have attacked me instead. By doing that it could had damage my economy and kinda screw me up
-kept using dark reapers more than half way through the game
-the computer is still capping points while im attacking his base with a 2 sluggas and 1 shoota squads while with the hero >>>>>
-the computer was attaching its farseer to its dark reapers.......not very effective. I would recommend the farseer to attach it self to a shee squad
-inspite of all this, the ai did some really good dancing
-AI kept sending hero in by itself and sending it out of battle when being overpowered (used fleet of foot)
-AI doesnt regroup at a point and attack my forces, it just kept on attacking with scattered squads....which led to their deaths
Report #2 for v1.8b6
Match: ork(me) vs eldar
Map: Icy Wind Storm
A.I Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Normal
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Me > AI
(i wanted to test out the ai in a custom map made by me)
Comments:
-AI did most mistakes it did in report number 1
-I like how the AI tries to rebuild it's HQ, but it builds it in the same spot as before....too predictable for the enemy to spot its newly constructed HQ
-I also like how the AI teleported it's builders out of danger, ive never seen this done before in the older builds
Well the AI has improved, but its still doenst do good when being rushed (2 sluggas and 1 shoota + hero) even though its a hard AI; it should try to be able to counter early attacks or do attacks it self. Also i would love if the AI can spot a cover and send it's units there, it would be awsome . Now im gonna test out a team game and see how the AI will do
-Slash
Edited by Slash, 28 June 2006 - 01:10 AM.
#8
Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:32 AM
I also suggest to reduce the number of capturing plans from 2 to 1 in mid/endgame or when fighting squads are desperatly needed.
#9
Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:46 PM
- Dark Reaper ratings were indeed to high
- Ignoring enemies while capturing reduced
- Changed build orders to build scout squad before builder
- Better harassing
- Delayed critical capturing after harassing phase
Was already done!I also suggest to reduce the number of capturing plans from 2 to 1 in mid/endgame or when fighting squads are desperatly needed.
I made some more test games and was satisfied with the changes so far. I fixed now the build and prepared the installer. Therefore we should be as good as finished now! Expect more from Thudo.
Thanks to all of you!!!
#10
Posted 28 June 2006 - 07:03 PM
Hmm... Yeaa I figured the Eldar AI needs Banshees as well although at one time DRs were amazing. I guess we have to watch it here so DRs are not too excluded. But yes.. their rating was high.- Dark Reaper ratings were indeed to high
I got the new build now.. will examine so we can get this mutha out the door before 1.5.
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#12
Posted 29 June 2006 - 01:58 AM
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#13
Posted 29 June 2006 - 04:17 AM
1)
Match: 2v2/ Me= SM Ally= IG Enemies: Orks + SM
Map: 4p_
A.I. Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Standard
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Them
Win Trigger: Take & Hold @ 13 min 44 seconds
Comments:
Not to be obsessively vulgar, but my ally sucked ass. He got ran over within 5 minutes and I couldn’t save him because he didn’t even try to put up a fight. I was over-run in the resulting 2v1. Enemies did awesome… scary… Ally sucked.
2)
Starting Thoughts: This will find out whether IG is indeed crippled if I mow them over IG is pathetic. If they win, perhaps I’m just not a good IG player/ally.
Match: 2v2/ ME= Eldar Ally=SM Enemies: IG + IG
Map:
A.I. Difficulty: Hard
Resources Rate: Standard
Resources Sharing: Off
Winner: Them
Win Trigger: Take & Hold @ 22 min 53 seconds
Comments:
Well, I made the mistake of trying to rush attack them… My ally did not “catch-on” to my plan and did nothing to help me secure the T&H point in the middle. I had forced being built [Avatar and many tanks] but the clock was too short and I lost. Never mind about the IG, the ai handles them well.
Notes:
Enemies have gotten much better from 5 to 6, for skill-wise it’s a great thing! However, the allies seem to suck now, they don’t assist in your attacks, help defend you, or basically co-op work hardly at all… O well, I need more solo practice anyways.
#14
Posted 29 June 2006 - 09:40 AM
AI seemed to work with 1.5. I'll make adjustments today to react to the changes.1.5 is out....will everything get screwed up now =/ ?
Not to be obsessively vulgar, but my ally sucked ass. He got ran over within 5 minutes and I couldn’t save him because he didn’t even try to put up a fight. I was over-run in the resulting 2v1. Enemies did awesome… scary… Ally sucked.
It's possible that your ally tried a vehicle fast tech. I personally noticed that the vehicle fast tech got extremely risky since I improved the harassing behaviour. I think I'll restrict it to 6+ players.
Allied cooperation in general is difficult since they can't communicate. Though they should assist if you're attacked. Maybe I nerfed the allied support a bit too much, since QuietDeath was very impressed by the allied support last time. I'll have a look...
Thanks for feedback!
#15
Posted 29 June 2006 - 02:18 PM
The more Relic tries to balance the game the more "rush to certain unit type" will lead to disaster.
The AI should use a default balanced build program 80% of the time and only pick special ones if it knows the map/enemy/setup is right to do it.
Currently DoWpro AI is using only 1 build program and I doubt it will help (as in improve the AI performance) to add much more.
#16
Posted 29 June 2006 - 04:44 PM
The unit selection of the standard build order doesn't seem to care about the opponents units race or units at all. Therefore at least at the start, the unit selection should be probably always the same. The consequence is that a player builds exactly the counter units to the AI's standard selection and I think it's pretty clear that this isn't really an advantage for the AI.
Besides that, at the start it's more important to effectively use a unit than to build one specific unit. The start units can't be too unbalanced since both players don't know the opponents units or even the race at this point. Nobody would play DOW if you can just give up a game only because the opponent built accidently unit xy and you yz and this results in an autoloss.
The vehicle fast tech is the only critical build, but it's only 6 players+ and you can even switch it off.
Edited by ArkhanTheBlack, 29 June 2006 - 04:46 PM.
#17
Posted 29 June 2006 - 04:58 PM
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#19
Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:11 AM
Besides that, pretty much every ork rush fails in WA 1.41, regardless what they build. It's by far the weakest race in 1.41. Stormboys are also extremly late for a tier 1 unit. That's exactly the reason why patch 1.5 reduced their pop requirement to 30 from the previous 40.
Before I joined the AI team, I've also done exactly what I said about the problem with one fixed build order. AI 1.3/1.4 had a fixed chaos marine build order for the start which was quiet hard at that time. But it could be easily countered by a full raptor/assault marine rush. I've done that with a friend on mountain trail and we won every game with that, just because the AI did the same start build all the time.
All the special builds have a 2 : 1 relationship of melee to shooter and vice verca to reduce the risk of unit massing. I also don't consider two units of the same type as serious 'massing'. Especially if you have three scout squads in addition.
Anyway you don't have to use several build programs for DOWPro.
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