1340 replies to this topic

[cdmtx(YR)]

Since we know that matter cannot be created. Then where did the matter that made our universe come from?

[MSpencer]

And what of the moon? A million and a half years ago, what do you think your ancestors thought it was. Surely they looked up into the sky as we do, as all creatures do, but what did they perceive the moon to be? Today we know that it is similar to our own earth in composition, and likely so, because the Earth was hit by a rather nasty little projectile which blew off a good chunk of our still molten and formulating planet several billion years ago, the results of which were caught permanently in the gravity of our planet. We didn't know about gravity at that point either. Sure, matter cannot be created or destroyed. Sure, we have no clue how it came to be in the first place. But surely enough, four thousand years ago they hadn't the slightest clue. Surely 10,000 years ago at the time of the Lascaux cave paintings, they had absolutely no clue either. Today we should not assume we know everything of the metaphysical. In that field humanity is still much in the dark, but do not make the self-aggrandizing conclusion that if we can't explain it, then we must all be "God's Children", and the most favored beings in the universe. That idea really should have gone out with the "universe centric" bullshit of the dark ages.

I already ANSWERED that.
You know it would really help your case if you learned how to read. We really have no clue at the moment, and we're in no more a position to know than the Romans were to build a nuclear bomb.

[cdmtx(YR)]

Spencer would you agree with me that in the beginning of time that there is only one piece of matter and that everything came from that one piece of matter.

[MSpencer]

No. Time is infinite, just as the universe is. There is no beginning, no end. And there's no way to tell if there was one piece of matter or many.
There is no valid basis for your statement whatsoever.

[cdmtx(YR)]

According to the scientific law.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

We all shouldn't be here and absolutely nothing should be an existence.

Options:
A) The scientific law is wrong. But if that law is wrong what other laws and or Scientific theories are wrong then?

B) God is the only one who can create and destroy matter, and he is the one who put this universe into existence.

[Airman]

Well, there is really no proof that the "Big Bang" happened and other Evolution theories. Even though I'm not a Christian, I see that there os alot of truth in the bible...

Go ahead, spence. Call me ignorant.

[Pastinator]

Sceintific law is not hard and fast. the laws maybe but what we know about them moght be. For example, we thought we cannot create energy. But Nucleur explosions destory mass and create energy. (which incedently wqs what you said was impossible).
I beleive that matter is just energy, but in such a way that strings of energy resonate to from mass.
Probally completely wrong but, meh.

Edited by Pastinator, 16 October 2006 - 10:13 PM.

[Cossack]

Well, there is really no proof that the "Big Bang" happened and other Evolution theories. Even though I'm not a Christian, I see that there os alot of truth in the bible...

Go ahead, spence. Call me ignorant.

You know what? I'm alright with you saying that you don't believe in evolution, and I'll be open minded about cdmtx(YR)'s statements about the universe, because they actually make some sense and he is actually trying to make a logical argument.

But what I absolutely cannot stand is you repeatedly saying that there is no proof of evolution and the big bang when it has been proven with nearly irrefutable evidence by scientists, astonomers and archeologists across the globe.

Im perfectly O.K. with you stating your beliefs, even if I don't necessarily agree with them, but what I absolutely dispise is you stating outright lies and providing absolutely no evidence to back them up! So will you please start making logical arguments with evidence rather than just stated your opinions as facts without anything to back them up.

[Airman]

Because I'm waiting for someone to try and prove me wrong, which it's funny every time.

@Plastinator
I never said that.

[cdmtx(YR)]

What were you trying to say here

Even though I'm not a Christian, I see that there os alot of truth in the bible...

[duke_Qa]

its kinda hard to bring proof to someone who refuses to believe it i guess.

[MSpencer]

First I would like to take this moment to step down as the moderator of the Think Tank. I do not feel that I can speak freely while serving in an official capacity as such.

@DOR
The sign of a true, absolute babbling idiot, which is a term I do not use lightly, is the absolute rejection of complete, unadulterated truth. That, by definition, amkes you a true, complete, and absolute babbling idiot. It is the final synthesis of ignorance, the point at which life is no longer worth living, and you should resign yourself to the complete separation from education and a lucrative career at Banana Republic Without Numbers, but even then, the big words like "sale" and "profit" might still be too much.
The only truly hilarious part is where you are definitively proven wrong, and then proceed to type a four second post on how the people infinitely more intelligent than you must be absolutely incorrect, for the simple reason that in your mind you cannot fathom an existence without the bible being absolutely correct. Unfortunately, the only remedy for such idiocy is widely regarded as a bad idea, and should only be attempted under severe duress, not that you would know the meaning of that word without looking it up anyway.

According to the scientific law.
QUOTE
Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

We all shouldn't be here and absolutely nothing should be an existence.

Options:
A) The scientific law is wrong. But if that law is wrong what other laws and or Scientific theories are wrong then?

B) God is the only one who can create and destroy matter, and he is the one who put this universe into existence.

A. We know several scientific laws are wrong. Newton's laws of motion are completely negated by our knowledge of the subatomic world, however they hold true in the every day world. The original laws of Dalton's chemical theory are widely considered to be outlandish today, however at the time, they were backed by every bit of experimental evidence that was present at the time. The first law of thermodynamics is a very grey area when speaking of any manner of physics. We know that matter cannot strictly be created or destroyed at any given time for any apparent reason which may present itself, however we cannot simply say that matter has always been here or that matter could have just sprung into existence. There is no experimental data to support any sort of belief that the matter has always been here, and there is no experimental data to support any sort of belief that the matter was instantly created by any sort of process. Therefore, it would rather be like the Romans coming up with an elegant theory about atomic fission without even knowing about the atom. In truth, we have no clue.
B. To assume such is flawed in many ways. First, this would violate the first law of thermodynamics, thus negating your entire argument. Second, we cannot just take everything that we cannot explain and attribute it to some unproven deity which may have had a book written about it a long time ago. In that regard, I could always say Julius Caesar developed the first nuclear device, but I would clearly appear to be raving mad and would clearly be in error. To suddenly believe that such things as the creation of the universe were suddenly precipitated by some mystical being for which there is absolutely no theoretical nor experimental proof, and that such an unproven being could simply violate every natural law we know of, is wholly unscientific and is reverting our society to that of the early Jewish societies four thousand years ago, or perhaps even before that to the fundamental roots of monotheism, which is widely regarded by evolutionary biologists as a bad idea.
Furthermore to believe in such things and to place such faith in things, in my opinion, is much further a leap of faith than to believe in something with mountains of proof such as evolution through natural selection, and the fundamentally correct notion of the "Big Bang" and its part in the formulation of the universe we know today.
For all we know, it's rather like a chain reaction, the arrangement of certain random ambient energy in the universe into basic matter in a hyperdense environment, resulting in a collapse in on itself and then outwards, causing a repeating cycle of big bangs and big crushes until such a time that the energy involved reaches equilibrium, rather like a very simple chemical reaction. It really is not all that wild an idea, and there's certainly evidence for it.

Edited by MSpencer, 16 October 2006 - 10:14 PM.

[Pastinator]

Yes, i know, DOR i was responding to cdmtx's statement, your not the only person here who warrants answers!

[duke_Qa]

then again spencer, 4 seconds after he sees you have posted and read the first line in your arguments, you are back at square one.

[Airman]

I'm currently listening to Blurry, and this song motivated to not scan over spences posts, so here I go...going to take it all the way...

Ok, now, I know I'm an idiot, but leave the 'babbling' out. Now, there has to be a higher power, most likely a god. Of course, I could be wrong, be there is video proof of people being healed and such. What i want to say is, this argument's evidence is inconclusive.

[MSpencer]

There's very little in the universe stopping me from deleting that mindless blather.

[Airman]

Yo, just to help you out there.....

Mindless- Someone with NO mind.

Well, that about sums it up.

[duke_Qa]

sigh... got my sympathies spencer.

[Airman]

Yes, I have a mind or I would be dead...by not thinking. Like that baby that was born with no brain (mind) and it died in about a year. That's mindless.

[Phil]

The last 50 posts are mindless (in my opinion at least). What a pity this topic is ultimately ruined...
Maybe I can find some better input tomorrow, if I feel like it then.