1340 replies to this topic

[Tom]

Inifinity might be mathematical however it also would signify everything. 1 divided by 0 would be god because if god is everything he is also nothing.

[Ash]

If God is everything in the universe, God would be bound by the laws of the universe. Laws like gravity, physics.

God is therefore NOT omnipotent.

God cannot be 'nothing' unless, of course, he doesn't exist. The point of nothing is that it does not exist. God either does exist, or he/she/it doesn't.

If you're insinuating that God is the universe, Tom, you're basically insinuating that you don't even know if the universe itself exists by your above post.

[Banshee]

Paradox. You just said a lot of crap.

God isn't subjected by physics laws: physics laws are part of God and subject to any action from God because all God particles are acting all the time. Therefore God (universe) is almighty.

[Ash]

You misinterpreted. I was working on the logic God was everything. I don't even believe in God. If God is everything, then he must also be the laws of physics, and therefore is bound by them. If God is every particle, He is subject to the laws of physics. Which means God is not all-powerful, as God cannot break those laws. Nothing can.

Any action taken is bound by those laws. And since God is everything, the thing taking the action was God, the thing having the action taken upon it was God, and all those things are thusly bound by the laws of physics. Were God to be omnipotent, they wouldn't be bound by any laws at all. And nor would we.


Before you say what I say is crap, take time to read it

[Allied General]

God is above the law

Cos you assume God is part of something that human beings can observe and measure.

Edited by Allied General, 09 July 2006 - 11:11 PM.

[Tom]

Yes, we are god and we are bound by the laws of this universe, physics. But god being infinitely big means that he is more than the laws, he goes beyond the laws. Humans being infinitely small are bound by these laws.

[Drewry]

God is not bound to any law. He is the law, a law cannot be bound to itself, that makes no sense at all. The problem is you look at god as being some physical creature floating over earth from the heavens. That is not what god is in my belief, and to reduce the concept of god to such a miniscule thing is rediculous. God is so much more than that.

[MSpencer]

If he can't be bound by any physical laws, they're not laws, yet everything in the universe is bound to them.
And here's food for thought... if so many cultures on this planet observe different traditions, and if on different habitable planets, different traditions are observed, what makes you all so self-absorbed and self-centered to think that your version of god is the right one, even if one exists. Human beings aren't exactly endowed with innate knowledge of the universe.

[Drewry]

I dont see my belief so radically different from that of a muslim's belief. In fact we can agree on a lot of things. I think that because we can agree on so many things, we are not at all so different. In fact muslim's, christians, and jews are about as different as that of baptists and catholics. It has always been just a few things that makes the different religions seperate and distinct. However the rest everyone can pretty much agree on.

[MSpencer]

Yet look at polytheistic religions such as Hinduism, Greek Polytheism, Incan, Aztec, and Mayan Polytheism, Paganism, and African Tribal religions, and regions where monotheistic beliefs have never truly evolved (The East), and invariably, the customs of other planets which must be infinitely different (Let's not argue here, there is life on other worlds. With the size of the universe, there are other habitable worlds out there, we're not one of a kind, don't be so self-absorbed to think we're "chosen"). Why are you right? Why is Christianity right? The answer is, it isn't. Nobody is, nobody truly knows, yet you all try and say that you are correct.
Nobody is correct. In 1000 years, people will look back on Christianity as you look back on Greek Polytheism today. Like you were all fucking nuts.

[Allied General]

give us the evidence that life on other planets exist instead of saying we are "self-absorbed" we know we are not the center of the universe - we believe God to be.

So far life exists only on 1 planet its about time MSpencer you appreciate it instead of treating other people, other cultures, other belief systems as target pratice for american firearms or simply insane.

We tolerate all other people, true Christians that is but we say our views to a public so our voice can be heard and so we hope people will be encouraged to believe. It may be a futile attempt but we still try.

Its like any political party campaigning. Our difference though its not for our self-benefit, its about being a servant for a God we believe has saved us.

Also MSpencer, Christianity been kicking around for 2000 years.

Romans tried to silence us, Jewish majority tried to silence us too.

Christianity as a whole has always been a minority of persecuted individuals.

The medieval ages where Christianity had "power" was actually a time of excess greed and violence when Christianity was used to cover it actions and modern day example is the march for demoracy as a excuse for invasion.

Nowadays normal religions, not any of this political, extremist rubbish have hardly any influence upon society yet people still follow and die in one man's name. (Christianity that is)

You can call our sacrifice stupid but I might as well say a soldier saving his soldiers from enemy fire defies common sense and logic too according to our biological nature.

Edited by Allied General, 10 July 2006 - 09:00 AM.

[Athena]

You don't have the evidence God exists, but you are asking Spencer for evidence for life on other planets? You believe God exists, but there is no solid proof, you can't see God. Just because we haven't seen life on other planets, doesn't mean we're the only life out there.

What I fail to understand, is why people who believe in the same God, want to kill each other over that belief. Like the protestants and roman catholics, or other examples.

[Mathijs]

Just a note, the fact that Christianity was around for 2000 years doesn't mean shit. The ancient religions were around for much longer. Egyptic belief par example. I agree that people will get over Christianity and other modern day beliefs . It has already begun, the churches lost power. Just like it went with the ancient beliefs.

*quickly exits topic*

[Ash]

I don't think anyone in the world does understand.

And there is no point trying to find fault in the two statements I said earlier; I don't believe them anyway...I was just finding fault in Hybrid's argument (quite successfully I might add).

If a law is not bound by itself, it isn't a law. If god is every single particle of the universe, then he is bound by the laws that bind all those particles. Or else they wouldn't adhere to those laws. Indeed, there wouldn't BE any laws. But there are laws. And therefore God is bound to them.

Note IF. I don't believe it myself, but I'm questioning the idea

AG, are you naive enough to think life on other planets does not exist? Besides, the human race has existed in its current form for around thirty-two thousand years. Are you basically saying every single one of them before Christianity came along went straight to Hell? I doubt it. Religious views where a god or many gods created everything and govern aspects of the world are not a new thing. In a time where we knew nothing about the world around us and lacked any capacity to find out, turning to the heavens for an explanation using something greater than ourselves was the most logical alternative. Seeing as we are now discovering a lot more truths about the world, we are finding more and more of religion to be entirely false, or mere half-truths.

Christianity may have been a minority at one point, but you can't say stuff like the crusades and the persecutions of the Jews across the globe (it wasn't just Nazis who did it) wasn't done by Christians just because it is convenient. They did it in the name of your Christian God and your Christian Jesus, and believed it was what They wanted them to do. That's good enough for any judge - you cannot paint your religion as whiter than white. No religion is. Every single one of them has persecuted somebody at some point. Except maybe Buddhism.

[Tom]

The universe is so big there has to be life out there, there may even be life that we cannot see because of our perception frequency, "our eyes/ears etc." Maybe ghosts are infact out of our range of view because their energy vibration levels are beyond what our perception can pickup, who knows. This could apply for aliens. How do we not know aliens didn't visit man in ancient times. Even the bible talks of huge objects in the sky, the egyptians recognised upto 5 planets and even had their own astrology. How is that possible so far back when technology is said to be virtually nonexistant. Science hasn't explained those things because we still don't know a majority of mankinds history, the eygptians even drew their "gods" as serpents etc. Its interesting stuff to research. Whilst i do believe in evolution i will not base all my views on that as we know nothing about human history yet, especially the ancient history.

Why are you right? Why is Christianity right? The answer is, it isn't. Nobody is, nobody truly knows, yet you all try and say that you are correct.

Of course, but then again you try so hard with science Christianity is "not right" there is no right and wrong, religions are just different perceptions of looking at creation, however altered for power and lies. There is still spiritual truth and historial information within these books, but to believe them as 100% literal without any research elsewhere imo is a dangerous and closeminded.

[MSpencer]

Science does not know everything, but Christianity knows nothing and tries to make it up as it goes along. Science knows a lot, but cannot understand the entire universe, while religion tries to argue with science and say that it's all a part of some master plan, and that we should all praise god and stop worrying about the world around us. Remember, Christianity has silenced the greatest minds in history, Christianity has attempted to block legitimate scientific theory, and Christianity has stood in the way of scientific research more than any other religion on the planet with their set of "morals" which only apply to keeping the people in line in their own country, because when they go to another country, they "Christianize" people by killing them!

[Banshee]

You misinterpreted. I was working on the logic God was everything. I don't even believe in God. If God is everything, then he must also be the laws of physics, and therefore is bound by them. If God is every particle, He is subject to the laws of physics. Which means God is not all-powerful, as God cannot break those laws. Nothing can.

Any action taken is bound by those laws. And since God is everything, the thing taking the action was God, the thing having the action taken upon it was God, and all those things are thusly bound by the laws of physics. Were God to be omnipotent, they wouldn't be bound by any laws at all. And nor would we.


Before you say what I say is crap, take time to read it

Nah. Crap again. The physics laws exists because of the interaction of God particles. Therefore GOD makes the physics laws, which is different from what you said. I've read both posts and I still think you've said a lot of crap.

[Allied General]

The bible main focus is not on the how of everything, its gave answers in a form which people of that time could understand when human race was surviving e.g. when most of the world was essentially 3rd world.

The bible provides moral guidelines, it provides laws in the very beginning to Israelites, but in the end it talks about how one brother should treat another brother which symbolises mankind.

Not an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but compassion and forgiveness.

It seems MSpencer you enjoy removing the human element from humans and merly treat great literature, art, emotional turmoil and suffering as simply an overload of electrical charged chemicals.

I'm asking MSpencer to give proof of life on other planets because he (this is the important point) believes it to be true and he uses probablity as his "proof"

I belief in a God and my evidence is the bible.

You can bash my beliefs and say I am close minded or whatever but in the end it doesn't change my opinion.

Christianity has nothing to with power, the protestants, catholics, is based upon politics and what one stupid overweight england king did.

I don't see chinese christians being tortured or whatever untold horrors there are in the world on christians as a example of "power"

Also believe it or not MSpencer, there are christians with different viewpoints which the mainstream do not agree with.

Like in politics there is facist groups and other extremists.

Your opinions MSpencer are sterotyping all christians or members of religion as extremist murderers.

I could have said all scientists are simply tools for mass murder e.g. a bomb, tnt, machine guns, tanks, etc, etc but I don't because I realise scientists have also contributed to society.

You see the problem with any religious thread is that its a never ending cycle like the water cycle.

[Athena]

A lot of things in the bible have proven to be untrue (like how long the Earth has existed).

A book is no evidence an sich. What if I write about aliens and sell my book.

[Tom]

Spence, science cannot answer why the energy known as zero point energy (found between an atom or from an atom) goes off the scale, it cannot answer why some people believe zero point energy is infinite energy but if true its possible this is to do with everything being one consciousness, one energy, all linked together in this universe and beyond. Some believe that this energy might be used in the future to create temporary "black holes" which can be used to travel to parrellel universes, then again this is quantum. John Titor: http://www.johntitor.com talked of this, obvious skeptism is going to remain for a majority of what is said yet theres much research on this. Science needs to begin to research the quantum areas, this is where you will find the answers about God. Science can be too close minded and remain to the "physical" rather than focus on other possibilities as well.

What you see, smell, hear, feel and touch is not all that exists, this lifeis merely a "dream" put over our perception. People on LSD can tell you this because of what they can do on the drug. Then again i'm sure science isn't interested in that because its not considered a "social norm."