56 replies to this topic

[Kazyumi]

Why would anyone believe in stories like the Bible, god, heaven, hell and a soul?
Is it because mommy told us that it is that way as a child and we grown up to believe in a fairy tale? I guess it is for alot of religious folks. Thrown at them when their small and brainwashable, oh well can't blame 'em, it's been happening for centuries..

Anyhow.. I questioned some guy I know from real life (he asked me to keep his name out, and I respect that privacy) about it all and attached it to this post.

Why does he believe?
I guess this one very common reason. Fear of death.
People made up and believe in stories because they are afraid of death.
I'm not trying to poke fun at people, for I guess it's normal, if not instinct.
But does that make them right? Does that proof god is there? Or that there even is such a thing as heaven and a soothing afterlife?

Fear of death.. why fear it if your not there to notice it if you get to the point of being dead?
I recommend you to read the chatlog, or if not throw your own view at it.
The chat evolves a bit more too the topic of evolution vrs. creationism btw.. but at a certain point he lacked comphrension.

Attached Files

•  Chatlog.rtf   50.75KB   59 downloads

[Pyth]

What a nut... invite him here for the bg debate if yo ucan.

[duke_Qa]

he has that "i don't want to stick my nose out too much, rather follow the flock" mentality it seems.

i've thought about death, i don't close the door on there being a afterlife, but i think the odds are against it. its better to live and write your name in stone for future generations to remember it, instead of waiting until you get to heaven to write it in the clouds.

become a pillar of society in your own way i would say. live your life, raise your children to become what you want them to become, and give them the wisdom that you have gathered up through the years. thats basically the best thing you can do imo.

[Banshee]

Why does he believe?
I guess this one very common reason. Fear of death.
People made up and believe in stories because they are afraid of death.
I'm not trying to poke fun at people, for I guess it's normal, if not instinct.
But does that make them right? Does that proof god is there? Or that there even is such a thing as heaven and a soothing afterlife?

Fear of death.. why fear it if your not there to notice it if you get to the point of being dead?
I recommend you to read the chatlog, or if not throw your own view at it.
The chat evolves a bit more too the topic of evolution vrs. creationism btw.. but at a certain point he lacked comphrension.

Fear of death definitelly attracts a lot of people to believe in religion myths...

[CodeCat]

I fear death, because that means I won't be able to do all the fun stuff I can do now. Like go camping.

But I'm still 100% atheist, and I'm comfortable with the fact that death is just a permanent end of consciousness. Surely I don't like the idea but hey, if you're dead you probably won't mind anyway. Besides it makes more sense than the gibberish some people think up...

[Allied General]

Woot how many bashing religious threads can I form and lets add another person to brand as a brainwashed scapegoat.

Mass media and governmental manipulation have been doing it for far longer.

Some people feel there should be rules, limits on what people should and should not do (i.e. law) and also a fear of death, the questions why am I here, what is my purpose.

You can apply the same question you asked Hooligan to why would we believe in communism/socialism, anarchism and you can discuss and debate however long your answers may be but in the end its a waste of time because people have lives to live.

Also why do you want future generations to remember you duke_Qa? Its a source of pride and wanting power, the downfall of mankind.

I don't want my name to be enscribed on a stone which weather will fade away, thieves will steal and nations will destroy. Even Einstein wanted all evidence of his body removed so people wouldn't idolise him.

I choose to believe there is something non physical which above this "existence"

Which isn't as non scientific as it sound many scientists believe in so called dark matter but all that science has is theories, its like that great "ether" that people use to talk about.

[Pyth]

Woot how many bashing religious threads can I form and lets add another person to brand as a brainwashed scapegoat.

That's because hey ARE.

Mass media and governmental manipulation have been doing it for far longer.

Yes.

Some people feel there should be rules, limits on what people should and should not do (i.e. law) and also a fear of death, the questions why am I here, what is my purpose.

Reason. Athiests aren't wicked.

You can apply the same question you asked Hooligan to why would we believe in communism/socialism, anarchism and you can discuss and debate however long your answers may be but in the end its a waste of time because people have lives to live.

Debate. Suvch a fun thing.

Also why do you want future generations to remember you duke_Qa? Its a source of pride and wanting power, the downfall of mankind.

I don't want my name to be enscribed on a stone which weather will fade away, thieves will steal and nations will destroy. Even Einstein wanted all evidence of his body removed so people wouldn't idolise him.

So? Some people want to be appreciated.

I choose to believe there is something non physical which above this "existence"

Well, no proof of course.

Which isn't as non scientific as it sound many scientists believe in so called dark matter but all that science has is theories, its like that great "ether" that people use to talk about.

Sciemce has muchm ore than theories. MUCH more. Yo usay you cn prove that tw othings can be i nthe same place at the same time? Dark Matter is in the theory stage. Ether was blown out of the water.

[Allied General]

Ether believed to be scientific fact for quite some time, the believe the earth was square was a idea going around for ages.

Read the New Science Journal even scientists have there doubts about it. (dark mater)

Hitler, Stalin Pol Pot were all kind happy people then?

Since the 60's the rise of violence against women and crime have increased tenfold.

The American Civil Liberities Union, the so called great protector of american civil rights wants to legalise child porn

I'm sorry but by natural instinct we know some things are evil and against our moral fibre.

Also Pyth, check your spelling and grammar.

Edited by Allied General, 08 July 2006 - 06:07 PM.

[Pyth]

Ether believed to be scientific fact for quite some time, the believe the earth was square was a idea going around for ages.

Read the New Science Journal even scientists have there doubts about it. (dark mater)

Hitler, Stalin Pol Pot were all kind happy people then?

Since the 60's the rise of violence against women and crime have increased tenfold.

The American Civil Liberities Union, the so called great protector of american civil rights wants to legalise child porn

I'm sorry but by natural instinct we know some things are evil and against our moral fibre.

Also Pyth, check your spelling and grammar.

1. So? They were proven wrong! Science evolves.

2. Of course. It's a theory-- unproven, and it should not be taught as fact-- merely as teory. Until it is proven. Then it's a fact.

3. Of course not! But not all athiestsa are Hitler! Do I sound like him? Or Pol Pot? Or Stalin? Of course not!

4. So? What does this have to do with the argument? Not that it's good though.

5. I don't agreee with that, and that's irrelevant. It isn't good either.

6. Agreed. But we don't need to look at a book lying to us for that. I have morals and I am an athiest.

7. I type kinda fast. Sorry.

[Allied General]

So not killing is a lie?

Helping the poor is wrong?

Telling the truth, having ideals to live for is wrong?

You take religion to be literal yet it talks about how people should treat each other e.g. be nice don't screw other people over and that is its MAIN point.

Science has no main point it seems cos its stance is constantly changing, one moment its this and one moments it that.

I'm talking about rise in violence and ACLU because these people are relying on humanist views where people are essentially god and whatever they do should not be judged or seen as wrong.

In many ways I sound like a socialist my only difference is I don't believe humans are capable of achieving it by themselves.

Edited by Allied General, 08 July 2006 - 06:23 PM.

[Pyth]

So not killing is a lie?

Helping the poor is wrong?

Telling the truth, having ideals to live for is wrong?

You take religion to be literal yet it talks about how people should treat each other e.g. be nice don't screw other people over and that is its MAIN point.

Science has no main point it seems cos its stance is constantly changing, one moment its this and one moments it that.

I'm talking about rise in violence and ACLU because these people are relying on humanist views where people are essentially god and whatever they do should not be judged or seen as wrong.

In many ways I sound like a socialist my only difference is I don't believe humans are capable of achieving it by themselves.

Erm... Nothing is wrong. Or right. Morals are subjective. Hitler defined the murder of Jewish people as correct. Stalin defined it to be correct against political enemies. I define both of those as wrong.

Having iodeals to live is wrong if the ideals are wrong. And religion is wrong and sicence is rifght, as science has proof and religion doesn't.

Science has a foundation. Believe it if there's proof for it.

Well, I don't agree with those people then.

And Socialism works. Not COmmunism though.

[Allied General]

I'm sorry but simply saying religion is wrong and science is right because of proof is rather subjective in itself.

Proof is subjective, it can be manipulated, its based upon a majority of mass agreement on a subject using so called evidence.

Hitler used proof from "science" to order holocaust e.g. DNA or for hilarity OJ Simpson, thats the triumph of so called proof right there.

Proof in essence is "truth"

If you believe morals are subjective then fair enough but I have the few some ideals need to be concrete, there is no loophole or work around.

Edited by Allied General, 08 July 2006 - 06:36 PM.

[Pyth]

No, it isn't. Prove the Bible is right. Proof cannot be manipulated, as if it is, it's not proof anymore.

Hitler used sscience to see who fit in with his insane vision.

Yes there are workarounds. For example, I beleive i nthe death penalty for murderers and rapists.

[Comrade Kal]

Socialism's goal is to create communism though. So you can't say socialism works but communism doesnt. If communism fails, so, by definition, does socialism.

[Pyth]

If Socialism stays there. So if a Socialist state decides to linger in there and not go to Communism it works.

[Comrade Kal]

But socialism is transitional, progressive, and revolutionary. If it isn't, it's not socialism, it's social democracy.

[Pyth]

Oh.

Well, you have me there.

[Allied General]

No, it isn't. Prove the Bible is right. Proof cannot be manipulated, as if it is, it's not proof anymore.

Hitler used sscience to see who fit in with his insane vision.

Yes there are workarounds. For example, I beleive i nthe death penalty for murderers and rapists.

I can say to you proof science is right, you will give me answers and replies which are believed to be currently correct but in how many years will be or could be proven absolutely wrong.

Proof is proof until otherwise disproven.

In essence nothing can be proven its all subjective.

Its like that whole chicken, egg debate.

I believe humans shouldn't have the right to death and life we should not control it.

Hence why abortion is sickening in my opinion.

Edited by Allied General, 08 July 2006 - 06:48 PM.

[Comrade Kal]

Let's abandon all medicine then, eh?

[Allied General]

Let's abandon all medicine then, eh?

When did I say that?

I'm just pointing out everything is subjective so using proof as a arguement is invalid.