22 replies to this topic

[thudo]

Its up!

Ran some tests on HARD skill and damn VERY impressed how fast AI armies now reinforce and upgrade weapons while maintaining its teching advantage.

All beta testers please report in as the build is now up on the site (as much as you can since this is the summer).

[Malkor]

First attempt @ Doom Chamber on insane, FFA.

Note I am having one IG ally per game to see if they are capable of getting vehicles as fast as I am.

Got a crash about a minute in. There were no engagements.

AI1001 01:28 CpuManager: Starting AI Think

Second try @ Penal Colony.

Got a crash a minute in once more. Eldar were shooting my ally at a LP he was trying to capture.

AI1004 01:12 CpuManager: Starting AI Think
AI1004 01:12 CpuManager: Update strategies...
AI1004 01:12 DefendStrategy: Update...
AI1004 01:12 BuildBaseStrategy: Update...
AI1004 01:12 CapturePlan: Update...
AI1004 01:12 CapturePlan: Update...
AI1004 01:12 CapturePlan: Update...
AI1004 01:12 ResourcePlan: Update...
AI1004 01:12 ResourcePlan: Update...
AI1004 01:12 BuildPlan: Update...
AI1004 01:12 BuildPlan: Update...
AI1004 01:12 CpuManager: Update tactics...

Also, If anything, Summer will let me report more, because I've retired from modding and have absolutely nothing to do all day but sleep. I slept until 3PM today until real-estate coming over woke me up. Hurey.

Third try @ one of the smaller maps, I forget which one now. 2v2. Got a crash a minute in with no engagements.

AI1001 01:19 CpuManager: Starting AI Think

Four and final try was on the same 2v2 map and also resulted in the exact same crash, this time on Harder difficulty.

Edited by Malkor, 17 July 2006 - 10:39 PM.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I think you need a new computer, or at least reinstall the system. So many crashes are even far beyond a worst case scenario.

Is DOW the only game which crashes?

[Malkor]

Yes. It didn't crash previously, mind you.

I'm willing to bet 1.5 did something weird.

I would try reinstalling but it takes so bloody long with 5 cds and all and I really am lazy

Edited by Malkor, 17 July 2006 - 10:47 PM.

[Blodo]

Reinstalling won't help. Tried it four times and it didn't. 1.5 introduced a whole variety of bugs btw, this instability might be one of them. It only happens when the AI mod is running though. I hadn't had a crash neither in multiplayer nor vanilla skirmish.

[thudo]

I guess the Advanced AI v1.8 was meant to use all the AI's talents then for some unfathomable reason it hates certain systems. Bloody bizarre beyond all telling. :(

Fellas.. can you try the -dev, autoexec.bat, and then running the mod so only AIs play the game? I want to ensure its NOT that in any way. Thanks guys!

[Blodo]

Two games on Crossroads, neither of which crashed. And that map is just notorious in 1.8 for some reason (at least seems like that to me). Also less stuttering happened. Looks like you guys hit the jackpot.

It may be just me but the AI has some problems dancing the commander. A Chaos Lord got repeatedly shot to pieces by my Tac Marines because even though he pulled back at the notice of superior force (he was attached to a cultist squad, and nothing else around him, apparently the AI was moving him somewhere because he wasn't outright attacking), he immediatly was coming back. A few run-ins like that and he was ruined. Worth looking into.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Since 1.75 seems to cause the crash as well, it's almost sure that 1.5 is responsible for the crashes. That the crash occurs only in combo wit the skirmish AI is not really surprising. The skirmish AI builds more and at different locations, creates bigger and more diverse armies, uses more abilities, etc. If Relic tests their patches, they use only their own limited AI and PvP and we have to figure out the bugs they missed (Sigh). It reminds me to the problem with the crashed caused by the path finding routines because of the extended building positions of 1.75. But this time it's even more complicated.

@Thudo
I think you should report this problem to Relic. I don't think that we can do anything to solve the crashes. They were introduced in 1.5 and happen even with 1.75 which is perfectly stable. I think they should know better which of their changes might have caused this.

[thudo]

I can transmit the DoW bug ASAP to the right people but need to know specifically what to report AND how to reproduce it. Thanks my friend!

[Malkor]

I have no idea what specifically causes it. I load a game and it crashes in a minute in any circumstances.

[thudo]

Hrrrmm.. so how is it Blodo whom was getting serious CTDs now with v1.9b1 does not yet yer still getting em? Where is the X-files people when ya need em? I want a Bermuda Triangle up the bum

Malkor.. can you play the same map as Blodo did in his last post.. see what happens..

[Corsix]

The installer still says 1.8

[thudo]

Yes.. Arkhan forgot to change the .module in the new build to read v1.9b1

[Malkor]

Crossroads crashed all the same.

[LarkinVB]

Sorry Malkor, but my guess is your computer/software/setup is screwed.

I had two very big battles 1.9b1 at hard at testing grounds (6p, all AI) and sharr oase (8p, all AI) without any crash. First was about 30 minutes, second was 40+ minutes with all races included reaching tier4.

Some observations regarding AI performance :

1. At shaar oase ork did build banners first at back of base instead of front.
2. SM was only building dreads but no preds though it reached tier4
3. AI was trying to build a LOTS turrets/minefields at distant LPs it couldn't reach as they were isolated. Wasted as they were never completed.
4. At gamestart AI was handling its jump troops badly. Chaos at testing grounds was hurrying for raptors. It build two squads + chaos lord. Enemy was attacking a close LP with superior force. What did the AI do ? Attack with one raptor squad against FS, reapers + banshees and guardians. Getting killed. Attack with second squad some seconds later. Getting killed. Attack with lord some seconds later. Getting killed. It was rescued by allies. Good ally code ! Bad handling of own troops.
5. AI was building too many turrets before it had raised its infantry squad cap to a decent level. Chaos seems to be hampered most. I watched them with 10/11 infantry squad cap maxed and still building turrets. Vehicle cap was much higher already.

Summary : Both games were rock stable and battles were delightfull to watch though chaos/orks did stand no chance to elf/SM/guard.

I always do my testing games evil vs good.

Conclusion: Arkhan did a hell of a job coding the AI and since I know the efforts needed to achieve this I'm more than greatfull for such a fine coder. Thanks Arkhan !

Thanks Thudo for keep it going. You are a hell of a motivating cheerleader !

Due to serious and sad real life issues I'm currently not able to spend time on AI (even DoWPro is neglected) apart from doing some beta testing.

See you guys

Larkin

Edited by LarkinVB, 18 July 2006 - 08:30 PM.

[Blodo]

I don't think it's big battles that tick it off. I used to have a crash on a 4p map with not really a big fight. Besides, he said the crashes didn't happen before 1.5

[thudo]

Thanks Larkin olde buddy! Expect MUCH more in the future regarding spurring this project on especially in DC.

As for your observations..

1) Ork Banners should be infront of base facing toward enemy @ gamestart - agreed

2) SM building Dreads over Preds in Tier4 - Hmmm.. Preds cost more and require higher tiered researches to build since WA. I've seen what you mean but also acknowledge SM Preds are harder to see on the map then CSM Defilers/Preds due to their cost and buildorder requirements. Dreads are cheaper and come earlier.

Cost and requirements for the following:

Dread

GameData[cost_ext][time_cost][cost][power] = 305.000000
GameData[cost_ext][time_cost][cost][requisition] = 170.000000
GameData[squad_cap_ext][support_cap_usage] = 2.000000
GameData[squad_requirement_ext][requirements][required_1][structure_name] = ebps\races\space_marines\structures\space_marine_vehicle_building.lua
GameData[squad_requirement_ext][requirements][required_10][structure_name] = ebps\races\space_marines\structures\space_marine_hq.lua

Predator

GameData[cost_ext][time_cost][cost][power] = 300.000000
GameData[cost_ext][time_cost][cost][requisition] = 165.000000
GameData[squad_cap_ext][support_cap_usage] = 3.000000
GameData[squad_requirement_ext][requirements][required_1][research_name] = research\marine_heavy_armor_deployment.lua
GameData[squad_requirement_ext][requirements][required_10][structure_name] = ebps\races\space_marines\structures\space_marine_hq.lua
GameData[squad_requirement_ext][requirements][required_11][global_addon_name] = addons\space_marine_hq_addon_2.lua

Thats why I wish Preds were Tier3 rather than 4. Seems stupid as Tier4 is all about the LR. Thats Relic for you. Anyway, Preds are limited in their presence since they have a high support cap - Dreads are simply made more available before Tier4 thus clogging the cap. I do recall we give Preds a HIGH rating so they must be created. Perhaps the AI did not have the resources/cap available. Comments?

3) AI builds turrets/mines and inaccessible LPs - hmm.. might be map-related as I see the AI building those buildings correctly near the front. However, get a funky map with wierd LP placements and..

4) AI not attacking with its squads in force together - this has always been a problem. I think you know about it as well. How to get the AI squads to ensure they attack areas all at once without stragglers. Arkhan is the mastermind here.

5) AI builds too many turrets before maxing squad cap -- heheh.. this one is likely easy to fix by moving turret construction further towards Tier3 or 4. Still.. Squad/Support cap research scripting is oddly handled anyway. Always has been since its not based on threat assessement or demand for troops but rather available resources. True? Its been awhile since I looked at squad/support demands.

Wow.. thanks for the kudos! With DC's new stuff we should achieve some amazing new heights!

[LarkinVB]

I assume that crashes are not AI related. What can I do to to get crashes you will get too ?

My PC is vanilla Athlon 3500+ with ATI X800pro and 1GB of RAM.

All I can do is trying to stress it OR try to follow a certain path. Do you have one ?

[thudo]

Hmmm.. regarding #2..

Our unitstats.ai..

name = "Dreadnought",
		sbp_name = "space_marine_squad_dreadnought",
		ebp_name = "dreadnought",
		class = UnitStatsAI.UC_VehicleMed,
		rating = 7,
		potential = 
		{
			{
				name = "space_marine_dreadnought_fist",
				effectiveness = GenerateUnitEffectiveness(10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10),
				range = UnitStatsAI.RT_Melee,
			},
			{
				name = "space_marine_assault_cannon_dreadnought",
				effectiveness = GenerateUnitEffectiveness(10,10,10,8,5,10,5,0,7,2,4),
				range = UnitStatsAI.RT_Ranged,
			},
			{
				name = "space_marine_lascannon_twin_dreadnought",
				effectiveness = GenerateUnitEffectiveness(9,9,8,6,4,10,8,2,8,4,3),
				range = UnitStatsAI.RT_Ranged,
			},
		}
	},
	{
		name = "Dreadnought Hellfire Variant",
		sbp_name = "space_marine_squad_dreadnought_hellfire",
		ebp_name = "dreadnought_hellfire_variant",
		class = UnitStatsAI.UC_VehicleMed,
		rating = 7,
		potential = 
		{
			{
				name = "space_marine_assault_cannon_hellfire",
				effectiveness = GenerateUnitEffectiveness(8,10,9,6,4,2,2,0,6,2,3),
				range = UnitStatsAI.RT_Ranged,
			},
		}
	},
	{
		name = "Predator",
		sbp_name = "space_marine_squad_predator",
		ebp_name = "predator",
		class = UnitStatsAI.UC_VehicleMed,
		rating = 8,
		potential = 
		{
			{
				name = "space_marine_lascannon_twin_predator",
				effectiveness = GenerateUnitEffectiveness(6,6,6,6,6,10,10,10,6,7,3),
				range = UnitStatsAI.RT_Ranged,

I wonder if the Preds weapon effectiveness is the problem as it competes with the Dread's perfect 10s in its main FIST weapon? AI usually takes the first weapon of a unit also into consideration for building the unit, not just the rating.

I would probably recommend dropping the Dread's FIST effectiveness so its more realistic across its 11 values then increase the Predators' rating to 9 and increase it weapon effectivess there to be a little better than the Dreads. Comments?

[Blodo]

I assume that crashes are not AI related. What can I do to to get crashes you will get too ?

My PC is vanilla Athlon 3500+ with ATI X800pro and 1GB of RAM.

All I can do is trying to stress it OR try to follow a certain path. Do you have one ?

As far as I am concerned it only affects certain systems for some reason. I own a Athlon 3000+ 64, Geforce 7800GT and 2gb of TwinMOS RAM. Yet I have been recieving crashes and you have not. This is why I say this is not performance related - definatly. Also you can rule out the possibility of a screwed up windows - I did a reformat in the process so that's settled. 1.4 didn't crash at all - that's yet another proof this isn't performance related.

I believe some of Relic's rewritten functions don't work exactly as they wanted. A lot of the dlls were changed in 1.5 apparently.