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#1 Bart

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 08:03 PM

Hello new members. Welcome to The 3rd Age. This post is here to clarify how things work here:

Rules in short:
- Follow Revora rules
- Start small, don't try to do a huge mod immediately without any experience and respect
- Try first, and if that doesn't work, as a question in a decent post
- Don't ask questions on PM or Live Messenger, etc.
- Don't be a noob
- Write in decent language
- Try to post in the correct forum
- Don't post large screenshots, make them thumbnails or links
- Don't use other people's work without credit and permission
- Don't use copyrighted material without permission
- Don't ask for mod release dates
- Don't ask people to make your mod for you
- We judge you by your character, not by how many posts you have or how l33t you are

This is a nice community, if you earn the respect of it's members!


Rules in long:

- Firstly, always follow the Revora Rules. Pretty standard.

- Rule #1: Start Small! Many new members don't have any modding skill whatsoever. Still they immediately want to make a kickass mod and start recruiting team members and/or asking "donations" for it. This is wrong. A few respected members can get a team together with ideas only, but newbies don't stand a chance. We understand that you want to implement your very cool ideas ASAP, but if you want people to join your modding team you must have some modding skill of your own and be able to show some of your work. Of course you'll have to learn it first, but no problem, that is what T3A is for :) .

Solinx has written another good bit about this stuff (you don't have to read this neccesarily, but it's reccomended):

Most starting modders want to start their own mods. That is quite understandable. However, before starting a mod, you should always remember to check which things you will need help with. If you aren't sure about half the things you want to do, then it's really a good idea to think about joining a mod team that is already working on a mod. Because there is already quite a list of mods, there should be at least one you would like to help with. During the time that you are helping others, you will learn more about the game and, just as important, more about other modders.

What has that to do with the combined quality of mods? Well, if starting modders join an advanced modding team, it will mean that (s)he won't start on his/her mod before knowing enough to really make it the way it's intended. Most ideas radiate quality, only because of the lack of knowlegde on how to recreate those ideas in game, the eventual mods show a pale resemblance to these ideas. Sometimes it's better to first spend time learning and not plunge in the dark in expectance that all will work out eventually.

Second advantage of first joining another mod team is that people get to know you. If you got a nice attitude and show them some skill in what you do, you will find that it's far easier to gain help from others and start your own mod team. This includes being known on these forums. The better people know you, and like you, the more open they are to helping you making a mod you've envisioned.

Third advantage of joining another mod team first is that you not only get more skill to do what you want, you also get to know more about the possibilities and limits of the engine. The possibilities may give you fresh ideas to put in your plan, while found limits may help you avoid troubles with impossible ideas.

No downsides? O, there are some things you can consider downsides.
For example, some may find it useless to 'wait' that long with starting their own mod. Actually, there is no need to wait really. Pretty much everyone who intends to make a complete mod would know enough basic things to start with just those. Besides that, most of the time, the ideas are vague and tech trees incomplete. While working on another mod, these can be worked out to more detail and to be more fitting to the engine's possibilities and limits we are bound to.

What could be viewed as another downside, could be that the mod you joined doesn't get completed. At the time of the decision to stop it may be somewhat of a setback, but since your primary goal was to get to know more about modding and modders, you can say that not all is lost afterall. With the number of mods being made, there is bound to be another you can join, or perhaps you have learned enough to shift more of your focus to your own mod.

One more advantage that comes from having worked with others before, and being known in the community, is that you can send out calls for help without having to go public. In other words, you don't have to announce that you are working on a mod if you want a bit of help or even if you want to start a compete team.
Going public early has a lot of downsides. You give in a certain freedom you had before. I won't go into detail, since it covers quite another area. I will only add that there is also a good side, interested people can help you go on when your on the point of giving up, although it probably evens out with the negative effect if noone seems to care...

To sum up, as a fresh modder, you will find it useful to consider joining other mod teams. You can learn new tricks, get to know the modders, get known by the community, and get new views for your own mod. Your own mod doesn't need to suffer too much, as you can work on the easier things while learning more.

If you do wish to make a public start with your own project, there are two paths we can advice you which will offer you a good opportunity to prepare the mod for a free hosting application here at T3A.
(Being hosted here has several advantages, such as getting your own subforums, the opportunity to get your news regularly posted on the T3A frontpage, and, not the least important, free and unlimited storage space and bandwidth to set up your own site and host your mod files.)

The first path starts at the Drawing Board. This is the place at T3A to advertise your mod during the concept and early development phase. The prerequest for starting a topic in the Drawing Board is that you either have the intention of working on the mod yourself, or already have a team to do so. Pure idea topics, ie. suggesting a new mod without intention of working on it, will be closed or combined with the Mod idea collection topic. Once a mod becomes developed enough it can be moved to the main Jobs, ideas and request forum, giving it more prominence as an indication of the status of the mod.
Next step is applying for hosting. Of course, you can also work through the early development stages without posting in any of the above locations. However, we do require of any project applying for hosting to show us material to prove the development has passed at least the concept and early development phase, so we know there is a good chance the project won't be abandoned after the first week.

If you rather wish to have your own subforums to work with right from the start, we suggest you head over to StealthSnake's community. This is the second path we advice. StealthSnake is the mod leader of the well known Battles of Gondor mod. Last time he gathered quite a following and now he has returned there is little doubt he will do so again. Why is this interesting for you? Because he offers starting projects a subforum of their own at his community forums. Head over to read more and get into contact with StealthSnake.

Of course, you can also combine the two paths, posting a topic at the Drawing Board and requesting subforums at StealthSnake's community. ;)


- Now, when you start to try some modifications yourself (start with simple things like changing unit health and copying special powers to other heroes), actually try to do them yourself first. Start out by reading the tutorials on the site. Then if you have problems, search the forums for an answer (you can use the search button). If this doesn't help either, then you can make a new topic about your problem. Don't make topics like "If I do this, will that work?", because you can try that yourself. Also, whenever you ask a question, post specifically what you have done and what exactly goes wrong. "It doesn't work" will not suffice! If you post some code, include it in [ code ][/ code ] (without the spaces). Also, don't quote the entire post above you when posting a reply.
We can't really help you if you post questions in this way

- Don't ask members for help through PM, Live Messenger or other such things. Firstly most people don't appreciate that. Secondly, it won't do you any good, a question on the forum is viewed by more people and thus has a higher chance of being answered. Thirdly, if posted in the forum, your question and answer will contribute to the community. Of course this doesn't apply if somebody offers you himself to contact him through any of those private channels, however, it's still better for the community to post your questions in the forum

- It's OK to be a newbie, everybody has been one in the beginning, but don't be a n00b. That is, someone who thinks very highly of himself, and asks hundreds of questions, mostly demanding instant answers from other forum members. Don't spam other people's topics with your question. Don't post your question in people's subforums. Do not reply to your own topics if you don't get an answer within minutes.

- Please use correct language and grammar. You can leave out capital letters, if you must, but keep it readable.
Example: "hey dude i lik3 what you did wid da elves lol but i dink theyre a bit small lol!!!!111 :p:p:P:P:P" should be "Hey dude. I like what you did with the elves, though they're a bit small." (only Lauri can use that many smiles ;))

- Posting in the wrong forum isn't a big problem, but try to post it right :) That is, questions should go in the BFME 1 or BFME 2 forum, except if they are about mapping/worldbuilder, then they go in the WB forum. The user submitted section is not for questions. Questions that are not modding related (e.g. about installing the game) go in the Off-topic section

- When you post screenshots, post them as links or thumbnails (links preferred). Not everybody has a 100Mbit fiberglass internet, 3GHz dual core PC with 4GB RAM and/or 1600x1200 screen resolution ;)

- If you want to use copyrighted material from some company or author, you probably need to ask permission first. It is said that book companies often give permissions and movie/game companies generally don't, but I don't personally know anything about that. Search around on the internet before using copyrighted material, or better yet: don't do it. Here is a good topic about the legalities of modding

- Double posting isn't bad, as long as you have a good reason, e.g. if your post contains significant new information or it's posted a few hours later. And please, when you double post, don't post things like "Really sorry for double posting :dry::sad: I hope you don't ban me... :):p"

- Some people allow you to use art or other resources they made. However, do ask them beforehand (unless stated otherwise) and if you get permission, give credit where it is due. Not doing this is the very worst thing you can do in a community like this.
Here is an example of how it doesn't work
This one is even worse

- Make your mod yourself, don't ask others to do it for you. We generally don't do requests.

-OMG!!11 When is ur MOD gonna be rleased??
The common answer on these forums to that question is: It's done when it's done. what it means is that we (or most of us) mod for the fun of it, and release dates for mods are rarely set. It's not decent to ask this.

You can of course ask when the creator expects to have finished the mod, but this can always change. :)

- And:
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Keep to these rules and you'll be a professional before you know it. :p

To let us know that you have actually read this, add the line "The Sky has Fallen" to your first 10 posts. If not, we will spam you with the link :p

Edited by Radspakr, 01 May 2011 - 07:21 PM.

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#2 Kwen

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 08:20 PM

kinda like me, i was an annoying n00b, now i'm an annoying modder

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#3 Fingulfin

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 10:41 PM

It is soooo easy to tell a Newbie from a nOOb. If there topic title is "Need a Mod Team!!" then youve got a nOOb. If it is "HEELLLPPP!!" Then you probably have a newbie. Just something that tends to have a pattern :mellow:
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#4 Stealthsnake

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 12:58 AM

yes very true fin, you can tell a noob from a newbie imediately by the way they talk, a newbie is asking for help, a noob asks the work to be done for them.

Everyone starts from the bottem, i myself began moddign bfme1 before i came here, i learned mostly my self, then found t3a, where i found the more wise who posted tips and tricks, and more advanced tutorials where i gained even more knoledge.
But there is always new stuff to be learnt even the wisest here im sure can still learn new tricks :p

Anyway, lets try to keep the forums clean of the noob infection before it spreads and we turn into a full on war :mellow:
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#5 Pixel

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 07:24 AM

About time someone made a topic like this.

Pinned already? :mellow:

Joe: someone beat me to it <.<

Edited by Joe, 20 August 2006 - 10:28 AM.


#6 Feudal_Knight

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 02:01 PM

I was never am n00b :mellow: . and i was never in the bottom :p . when i came i already had some skill with photoshop and 3dsmax. so it was not too hard to get finalbig extract some stuff and be a modeler and skinner. animating i learned here tho :p

#7 Celeglin

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:51 AM

I was never am n00b :p . and i was never in the bottom :p . when i came i already had some skill with photoshop and 3dsmax. so it was not too hard to get finalbig extract some stuff and be a modeler and skinner. animating i learned here tho :p


A little confident?

Anyway, didn't realise we had any n00b problem... I'm guessing I'm going to have to start watching the BfME II forums now?

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#8 Kwen

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:55 AM

its not that bad, we dont have 400 noobs like mev did, we got maybe 3 dont worry DONT LEAVE

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#9 Feudal_Knight

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 08:09 AM

yes its confident :p but as far as i know i did not want someone to do stuff for me and i have the ability to do something myself. unlike noobs. so well technically i have the right to be that confident.

#10 Artifice

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 06:38 PM

I still say everyone was a noob at one point.

#11 Kwen

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 10:47 PM

i was a BIG n00b

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#12 {IP}Gil-Galad

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:41 AM

kinda like me, i was an annoying n00b, now i'm an annoying modder


yeah, the only difference is now you can write code, rofl just kidding man

#13 Celeglin

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 03:18 AM

It was a thread to help newbs avoid being n00bs. But of course, everyone just took the opportunity to say that they were never a n00b themselves...

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#14 Fingulfin

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 04:43 AM

Oops, I didn't post my post... I was typing it, but I forgot about it :) Anywho, It said that Yes I was a nOOb, and I beleive everyone was at some point in time. Not everyone shows it the same way, aka, I was a silent nOOb. I did expect the community to give me total quick fix answers, and was frustrated when they told me to do it myself. I just made sure to hide that fact so I wouldn't look stupid :p
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#15 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 12:58 AM

he was a smart n00b :lol:

#16 Bart

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 10:43 AM

just added a very incomplete piece about copyright stuff
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#17 LadyRhiea

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 01:42 PM

I'm still a n00b!!!oneoneoneoneleveneleveneleven

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I'm not smoking anything, I'm just Japanese.

You guys better hope I don't get hired by EA one day, sorry, I meant interned for very low wages

#18 Mathijs

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 02:08 PM

Of course I was a goddamn n00b once, I just wasn't around these forums. I just fiddled with RenX and Nick's Tutorial, to be a modeler. Never really reached that, since I still suck at it. :p

No fuel left for the pilgrims


#19 cahik_

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:34 PM

i was total n00b not year ago. but i havent acces to internet so i get some programs for modding and start with modding myself. i develop to decent coder and then i met Matias who get me on Visions. that help me a lot. then i start with moddeling and skinning myself. i was still working on my coding skills so now i am good coder, decent modeller and starting skinner. i think that everyone was n00b once, it is only about how long does it take you to became at least beginner modder

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#20 Hostile

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:52 PM

When I came to Revora 3 years ago, I was a newbie and a noob. I didn't even know what a forum was. So of course I took everything personal, flamed, spammed, asked answers without trying myself. All the typical stuff.

After awhile you learn proper forum etiquette. And now it appears we have a forum dream. A proper community. I'm very proud of T3A.

It's all because of you people. In a way you formed your own community here. I just built the houses you all moved in and make the place it is today.

Pat yourselves on the back. You all are doing a great job working as a team.




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